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United Airlines Incident

  • Azubuike24
    Anyone see this? Curious to hear some thoughts. Apparently, they randomly selected 4 passengers to leave an overbooked flight after no volunteers came forward, 3 left on their own. United called in Chicago Police (the CPD denies involvement) to remove the 4th passenger as he refused.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/united-air-flight-video-man-dragged_us_58eb79b3e4b058f0a0309da4

    My first thoughts are that although they apparently offered $800 in credits to leave, it wasn't enough. Instead of upping the offer, they opted to use force. Given the video, hard to imagine this isn't going to cost United a lot more money in lost revenue and legal fees than it would've been to up the ante to get another volunteer.
  • Sonofanump
    Horrible.
  • sleeper
    Well I don't know about this incident but I will say airlines deserve to be absolutely clown fucked if they overbook flights. I'm not saying outlaw the practice but if you overbook and can't get volunteers to accept your offer, that's your problem.

    The offer should continuously be upped until a passenger decides to accept the offer. I hope this guy sues and makes a ton of money.
  • wildcats20
    They didn't even overbook for normal paying customers. It was for 4 employees to get home.

    The guy seemed to be out cold after getting put on the floor. And then he was literally dragged down the aisle and off the plane. United will pay massively for this.
  • like_that
    I feel bad, but I lol'd at the guy's reaction. At least he is going to see a good pay day in the near future and perhaps unlimited miles for life. I am with sleeper, if you overbook then it should keep going up for the highest bidder. Fuck airlines. With that being said, who gets more of the blame? United for the overbooking, or security for manhandling him?
  • Sonofanump
    like_that;1846782 wrote:With that being said, who gets more of the blame? United for the overbooking, or security for manhandling him?
    I'm sure both (rightfully) will be named as defendants.
  • Zunardo
    wildcats20;1846781 wrote:They didn't even overbook for normal paying customers. It was for 4 employees to get home.
    That is the crux of the matter. How much you want to bet they didn't decide to put their 4 employees on that flight until the very last minute? Poor planning on their part should not trump paying customers with a seat assignment who have already been seated.

    How hard would it have been for them to put their employees on another flight, even with another airline? Or even charter a special flight? Certainly a lot less than it's going to cost them in negative publicity and liability.

    I had no problem enforcing their own dress code for "free" flights. I do have a problem with this.
  • gut
    I'd guess one or more United employees massively screwed up (not that it helps United).

    1) All airlines overbook. I'd be amazed if there is a policy for random removal other than extreme situations. You gotta have limits, but at peak peak peak spring break season I can't imagine $800 is their limit to offer.

    2) Under no circumstances should an employee be given priority over a paying customer. You want your employee to get home, then I guess $800 wasn't enough to get them a seat.


    As for the guy KO'd....it sucks, and you have an obvious customer service issue. But you can't refuse to leave the plane. I probably would have done the same thing (or demanded they double their offer)....but you'd get nothing from me.
  • iclfan2
    He's gonna get paid. No jury would be in favor of an airline, everyone hates airlines. I'd sue the airline and the cops. Pulling a paying customer off of a plane who wasn't causing an issue is absurd.
  • Automatik
    How dumb can UA be?

    Up the money until someone volunteers. Simple, done.

    Now they have a PR and legal nightmare upcoming.
  • Laley23
    1. All airlines overbook. This is not an issue. You would be flying planes with a ton of empty seats without overbooking.

    2. The employees didn't need to get home. They needed to get to Memphis to work on other flights or those flights would be cancelled. This also happens quite a bit. It's the same as overbooking in how it has to be handled, but not the same in the sense the airline sold more seats than what was available.

    3. When you buy a ticket, you don't by the right to fly on that flight at all. If a pilot orders you be removed, they are legally in their right to do what is necessary. Of course, United will settle out of court, and pay a ton of money, but in theory, they broke no laws and had the right to do this.

    4. Airlines have a limit to what they are allowed to offer as overbooked compensation. Now, I know for a fact $800 isn't it, a son I've taken a voucher when it hit $1,800 on Delta. That said, it's not unlimited, I believe it's like 400% of the fare? Give it take since ticket prices fluctuate. Maybe 800%?

    5. The board flights before the overbooked issue has been resolved all the time. Because people constantly miss flights for one reason or another. Makes it much tougher when THIS happens, but boarding and then having to remove someone is not a practice that is outlawed.

    ALL THAT SAID, United totally fucked up and they will be rightfully sued for a ton. Just keep upping the offer, if no one bites, send your employees to Memphis on another airline. If that isn't possible, offer the max PLUS buy the customer a seat on another airline leaving that night. Whatever it takes, you should never get to the point, even though they are allowed to, forcibly removing someone. Just moronic.

    Not sure whatbtheir schedules were, but I've seen where flight attendants where scheduled to be done for the night in the next destination, when others needed to fly on that flight to make connections for another flight. The originally scheduled date attendants got left behind to catch a later flight the next day before their days off, while the ones who were needed simply "worked" our flight. Now, if all the flight attendants were then needed in Memphis, this is a moot point. But I wouldn't be surprised if they resorted to this because they wanted to enjoy their "weekend" on time and not wait a day.
  • gut
    ^^^Excellent post - think Laley covered most of it.

    Not sure how "liable" United is here, since the security team are not United employees. They were within their rights to ask the man to leave, and his refusal prompted the call to security and then it's out of United's hands.

    If United pays him a bundle, it's purely because of PR.
  • Azubuike24
    I guess I just wonder that in today's day in age, clearly you're going to look bad by going about this the way they did. I found that the Chicago Police have denied they are involved and they pointed the finger at the Department of Aviation. Apparently, the guards who removed the passenger were technically employees of the Department of Aviation, but given their location, are graduates of the Chicago Police Academy.
  • like_that
    http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/4/10/15246868/browns-joe-thomas-has-the-best-response-to-uniteds-pr-disaster
  • Commander of Awesome
    [video=youtube;nNISOJHuHJk][/video]

    lindor re-accommodating Texas.
  • Belly35
    Get the hell off the plane doc. Flying is a privilege not your right, you pay for the usage of the seat but that seat is needed so get off the plane. Those passenger on this plane want to take off and those four employees needed in Memphis so others can get home also. You're not that important to prevent hundreds from flying. Get off the plane just because your a doctor you have the same rules of policy to adhere to this is how airline work the over book sometimes you win this time you lose. Get off the plant doc... Take the offer get off the plane
    If you where in my car your happy ass would be on the curb just for bitching.
    Hey lady scream and making matters worse get a life ..... It not that bad just a fat ass, self centered Doctor thinking he has privilege ... flopping around.
  • like_that
    Also, I am willing to bet the pr "damage" to United won't even be bad. The airline industry, especially domestically has more leverage than the consumer.
  • fish82
    Laley23;1846822 wrote:1. All airlines overbook. This is not an issue. You would be flying planes with a ton of empty seats without overbooking.

    2. The employees didn't need to get home. They needed to get to Memphis to work on other flights or those flights would be cancelled. This also happens quite a bit. It's the same as overbooking in how it has to be handled, but not the same in the sense the airline sold more seats than what was available.

    3. When you buy a ticket, you don't by the right to fly on that flight at all. If a pilot orders you be removed, they are legally in their right to do what is necessary. Of course, United will settle out of court, and pay a ton of money, but in theory, they broke no laws and had the right to do this.

    4. Airlines have a limit to what they are allowed to offer as overbooked compensation. Now, I know for a fact $800 isn't it, a son I've taken a voucher when it hit $1,800 on Delta. That said, it's not unlimited, I believe it's like 400% of the fare? Give it take since ticket prices fluctuate. Maybe 800%?

    5. The board flights before the overbooked issue has been resolved all the time. Because people constantly miss flights for one reason or another. Makes it much tougher when THIS happens, but boarding and then having to remove someone is not a practice that is outlawed.

    ALL THAT SAID, United totally fucked up and they will be rightfully sued for a ton. Just keep upping the offer, if no one bites, send your employees to Memphis on another airline. If that isn't possible, offer the max PLUS buy the customer a seat on another airline leaving that night. Whatever it takes, you should never get to the point, even though they are allowed to, forcibly removing someone. Just moronic.

    Not sure whatbtheir schedules were, but I've seen where flight attendants where scheduled to be done for the night in the next destination, when others needed to fly on that flight to make connections for another flight. The originally scheduled date attendants got left behind to catch a later flight the next day before their days off, while the ones who were needed simply "worked" our flight. Now, if all the flight attendants were then needed in Memphis, this is a moot point. But I wouldn't be surprised if they resorted to this because they wanted to enjoy their "weekend" on time and not wait a day.
    Pretty much agree with everything here. It's easy to tell the people who fly all the time. :)

    United will throw some money at the guy as a matter of PR damage control, but would win easily in court if they guy were to sue. The Contract of Carriage for pretty much any airline gives them a pretty wide berth for treatment of PAX.

    The only surprising thing to me in this story is that they actually boarded the plane before resolving the issue. I don't fly United, but I've never seen Delta do that in 20+ years of flying them. I remember when they didn't even do the voucher crap...they offered a free unrestricted coach ticket anywhere in the continental US. Needless to say, getting volunteers was not a problem.
  • ironman02
    Flew United when we went to Maine to visit a friend. We were on the way home and boarding our connecting flight in Newark, NJ. A passenger had been boarded and was seated, but was told that he had to exit the plane. He had been on standby and was given a seat on the plane, but the person whose spot he was given showed up after he had already boarded. He refused to leave and eventually had to be escorted off the plane by security. He was pretty irate, but it never got physical like this situation.

    Kinda felt bad for him because they pulled him off the plane after the other person didn't show up on time. Was kinda annoyed with him because we basically sat on the tarmac for like 45 minutes before finally being able to leave and fly home. Not exactly sure what protocol is, but seemed pretty unfair that they told this guy he was good to go, and then pulled him off the plane because some other person couldn't be on time.
  • Sonofanump
    fish82;1846922 wrote:The Contract of Carriage for pretty much any airline gives them a pretty wide berth for treatment of PAX.
    I think the jury would look at this no matter what the jury instruction would be:

    He rightfully paid for the seat, boarded and claimed the seat. He was not being bumped because he was stand-by, nor for a paying customer, but for an employee. He was physically removed from the seat causing injury.

    I can't seem to find clarification on who those where that physically removed him, TSA, local police, airline security?
  • Sonofanump
    Stock fell by 4.3% this morning, slightly rebounding to only down 3.75% now.
  • Zunardo
    fish82;1846922 wrote: The Contract of Carriage for pretty much any airline gives them a pretty wide berth for treatment of PAX.
    I read United's CoC. The wrinkle is, if they actually chose the guy randomly, then they didn't follow their own contract. It states the priority for non-volunteers will be those who paid the least go first, not a random selection.

    Of course, they'll probably say there's a provision in the contract that says they can "change the contract at anytime", which means it's pretty damn worthless as a legal contract. Any guesses how they would have responded for the following situations during this "random" bumping?

    - the random passenger that turned out to be a 7 year-old kid traveling with this parents. Airline entitled to force just the kid off by himself?

    - a family of two parents and three kids are on the flight, and the parents are chosen. Airline entitled to force just the parents off?

    - the doctor was at the midpoint for a stop on a continuous flight. Airline entitled to kick him off the plane after he's already flown partway?

    I've been told anecdotally that just because a company claims no liability before you use their service, there has to be a "reasonable man" doctrine in play. You don't give up all your rights just because a company says you do. Any truth in that, and could that be in play here?
  • Azubuike24
    like_that;1846879 wrote:Also, I am willing to bet the pr "damage" to United won't even be bad. The airline industry, especially domestically has more leverage than the consumer.
    True, but it was a situation where they probably could've avoided any PR damage.

    Then again, airline PR is always an uphill battle anyway, so maybe they just don't give a shit.

    It's not like most things you hear about airlines are positive. It's one of those industries where no news is usually good news, meaning things are going as people's unrealistic expectations go.
  • like_that
    Annnnd here comes the smear campaign:

    http://www.tmz.com/2017/04/11/united-airlines-doctor-convicted-drugs-sex/
  • sleeper
    like_that;1846966 wrote:Annnnd here comes the smear campaign:

    http://www.tmz.com/2017/04/11/united-airlines-doctor-convicted-drugs-sex/
    I changed my mind. Glad he was kicked off.

    kappa.