Ways to improve public education?

• HitsRus

  

  Basic math, reading, language skills should be taught thru 8th grade...In high school ALL students should get financial and life skill classes and then upper level math and language skills if planning college, but increased vocational training for those who aren't. Vo- Ed programs need to be upgraded.
  Have you tried to find a plumber, carpenter welder lately?
• Spock

  

  Benny The Jet;1836655 wrote:I'm also not a huge fan of our union. I think if you made teachers pay based on performance, you'd see a lot better teachers coming into the field and would motivate the ones who have become lazy. How to fully incorporate performance based pay may be tricky though. Right now I only get evaluated 2x a year.

  OTES
  
  it gets rid of union rights in regards to not being fired for poor performance. As for merit pay, never going to happen.
• Sonofanump

  HitsRus;1836662 wrote:Have you tried to find a plumber, carpenter welder lately?

  
  This guy agrees with you. (so do I)
  
  http://profoundlydisconnected.com/foundation/
• Sonofanump

  I don't see how merit pay can be calculated when there is not a good or service that's value can be measured.
• Benny The Jet

  

  Sonofanump;1836666 wrote:I don't see how merit pay can be calculated when there is not a good or service that's value can be measured.

  There's been rumblings that it could be based on evaluations and student growth/performance. However, as a teacher...if my pay is based on my student's growth or how they do on a standardized test, I'm not going to be thrilled. Too many variables, students may have a bad day on the test and all of a sudden it's costing me money?!? No thanks. I think it's a good idea, I just don't see how it could work. Also, I think you'd see some shady teachers who might scew the data/give extra help during a test in order to make a few extra $
• QuakerOats

  sleeper;1836653 wrote:Glad she can handle it. She's going to deal with it in increasing intensity

  Thank you for admitting to the problem: a militant union in charge of a public sector monopoly --- what a combination.
  
  No wonder the kids get the short shrift .............what an embarrassment.
  
  Let's try some new things to fix the problems and educate our kids properly.
  
  The first step is eliminating the federal department of education; the second step is eliminating the teachers union.
• Sonofanump

  Benny The Jet;1836669 wrote:There's been rumblings that it could be based on evaluations and student growth/performance. However, as a teacher...if my pay is based on my student's growth or how they do on a standardized test, I'm not going to be thrilled. Too many variables, students may have a bad day on the test and all of a sudden it's costing me money?!? No thanks. I think it's a good idea, I just don't see how it could work. Also, I think you'd see some shady teachers who might scew the data/give extra help during a test in order to make a few extra $

  I would not want my salary based upon kids whose parents are unaccountable. How do you based these test for special needs & specials (art, phys ed, band, etc) teachers?
  

  Benny The Jet;1836669 wrote:Also, I think you'd see some shady teachers who might scew the data/give extra help during a test in order to make a few extra $

  Chicago of all places in the 1990's
• Spock

  

  Student growth measures and value added scores are BS, these things were created when the goal post get moved every year to make education seem worse then what it is.
  Number one thing that needs to be done is that the federal government needs to stop moving the goal post every year to remain relevant. Stop creating new tests, new scores of proficiency and standards just to say that kids arent achieving.
  
  I bet if we only count certain students in teh data like other countries do (China, Denmark, Canada) we would be near the top globally. But the Feds want power so they keep the data trending so it looks like "education needs fixed"
• Benny The Jet

  

  Spock;1836676 wrote:Student growth measures and value added scores are BS, these things were created when the goal post get moved every year to make education seem worse then what it is.
  Number one thing that needs to be done is that the federal government needs to stop moving the goal post every year to remain relevant. Stop creating new tests, new scores of proficiency and standards just to say that kids arent achieving.
  
  I bet if we only count certain students in teh data like other countries do (China, Denmark, Canada) we would be near the top globally. But the Feds want power so they keep the data trending so it looks like "education needs fixed"

  100% agree. They ran a report where they talked to local Superintendents, and they're real upset with the same things. Citizens in the district see a school go from an District Report of an A grade and then to a D and they get all up in arms because they don't fully understand what they're doing with to the scores and tests.
• Benny The Jet

  

  Sonofanump;1836672 wrote:I would not want my salary based upon kids whose parents are unaccountable. How do you based these test for special needs & specials (art, phys ed, band, etc) teachers?
  
  
  
  Chicago of all places in the 1990's

  Yea, it's a tough one. How do you get rid of the crap teachers who get hired in, put it in cruise control and stay protected by the union?
• Belly35

  

  Educate those who want to be educated, teach those who want to learn, instruction for those who has needs, support those with special teachable skills .... Now what to do with those who are disruptive, behavioral issue and unattended performance...?
  I grew up in a time of volcational education was a secondary option of the educational system.... With today advances in technology even the simples of some of today job requirement are more that what some students can achieve.
• wkfan

  Benny The Jet;1836683 wrote:Yea, it's a tough one. How do you get rid of the crap teachers who get hired in, put it in cruise control and stay protected by the union?

  It can be done, however it takes a principal with kaohnes to evaluate the teacher, document the issues, meet with the teacher to review the issues, offer corrective action, re-evaluate, document, etc.
  
  Most principals don't have the fortitude to take this on, IMO due to the WAY too many testing cycles and other BS things that the state and federal Education departments heap on them that are outside their real responsibility......
• salto

  

  Spock;1836232 wrote:Sure the average person doesn't use those but it that was the trend, to get rid of higher level order thinking, we would be a real dumb society.

  wat