Ways to improve public education?

• Zunardo

  Laley23;1836200 wrote:Im pretty sure English and history are the only 2 subjects I use regularly as an adult. And history in conversation/social settings.

  Reading? Math?
  
  Reading is the most useful and most used in later life, IMO. Foundationally, it must be mastered in order to learn the other subjects.
  
  Math - I get ticked off just thinking about it . Was asked to tutor some middle school kids (Columbus city school) about 15 years ago, I was their math tutor and was instructed to help them be able to pass their OGT, or whatever it was called at the time. I was dismayed to find out the kids had no basic understanding of simple addition, subtraction, mulitiplation, division - I mean they couldn't look at a problem where the car is going 40 mph driving 3 hours and have any idea how far the car traveled.
  
  So I went back to the basics, made my own flash cards, and had them doing memorization drills. The counselor saw me and chewed me out: "Don't waste time on that, they'll have calculators!".
  
  The problem with that view - and I understand her taking the path of least resistance - was that the kids would still have no concept of the scope of the problem; i.e., knowing the answer would be between, say, 100 and 1000.
• FatHobbit

  

  friendfromlowry;1836195 wrote:What about curriculum overhaul? How much is taught that needs to be? I haven't given it much thought but what comes to mind right away is math. How often do adults use the FOIL method, explore parabolas, find values of a function, Pythagorean theorem, find the slope of a line, etc.

  If you cut out math, then we can not complain about a lack of STEM graduates. I think it's important for anyone who can potentially go to college to take as much math and science as possible. No need to limit their options that early in life.
• Laley23

  

  Zunardo;1836245 wrote:Reading? Math?
  
  Reading is the most useful and most used in later life, IMO. Foundationally, it must be mastered in order to learn the other subjects.
  

  Reading and basic math I learned well before High School, Algebra 1 and 2 in middle school along with geometry. We were onto statistics by freshman year, and no, I haven't used a single thing I learned in High School Math since I was no longer tested on it. Hell not sure I've used anything past 6th grade math.
  
  I don't know, maybe my school was different in when we were taught things, but my point remains. The advanced forms of these subjects get way too much time in school when we could be teaching kids how to network computers, using shared drives, how the damn internet works, etc.
• FatHobbit

  

  Laley23;1836200 wrote:Im pretty sure English and history are the only 2 subjects I use regularly as an adult. And history in conversation/social settings. Technology needs to be a MUCH bigger part of the curriculum as well as foreign language. Workforce is driving both of those values way up.

  I think people use math a lot without realizing it. Any time you talk about sports and percentages you are using math.
• rocketalum

  Th issue I have with a reduction in advanced Math or Science is that while a majority of us don't use it today, I think it only becomes more important moving into a future heavily slanted toward STEM jobs. There's already a huge skill set gap there. Tons of open jobs not enough people. Hence silicon valley going nuts over the immigration policies of this administration. In order for this approach of cutting out curriculum that most of us don't use to work, we either need to force kids to pick a path earlier e.g. if you're thinking of being an engineer decide in 9th grade so we can load you up on advanced math and physics or, send kids off the college and expect the university to spend a bunch of time on remedial math/science because HS didn't teach it since it only added value to a small % of the students. Then we can all complain about rising tuition costs because universities have to teach remedial courses at college prices.
• Belly35

  

  Utilize the strength of the student, design a educational learning program to enhance those skills but provide a basic core of subject to round out the educational process. Keeping kids interested in learning.
  Teachers are not parents or baby sitter student participate in a extra school activity is a requirement and parent participation determines the grade.... Pass or fail...
• BRF

  

  I'm against needless homework....giving homework just for the sake of giving homework.. i.e. - worksheets, coloring (any of you as parents been up past bedtime to help your kid finish some stupid useless assignment?)
  
  reading assignments - yes, but be sure to use the reading assignment in class
  
  Many times my students learned that other teachers would give writing assignments, but never read them or would just give a "completion" grade by seeing that there were words written. Shame on any teacher who gives writing assignments, but does not bother to read them and also make comments. (any of you as students ever write a bunch of non-sensical shit on a paper because you knew the teacher wasn't going to read it anyhow?)
  
  In high school and even middle school, many students have jobs after school and many are responsible for taking care of younger siblings when they get home. So cut out the bull shit homework.
  
  
  Teach in class what you want your students to know.
• Laley23

  

  FatHobbit;1836257 wrote:I think people use math a lot without realizing it. Any time you talk about sports and percentages you are using math.

  Well sure, I'm not advocating getting rid of math. I'm advocating to get rid of Calc...trig...stat as basically required courses in high school. Basic math, probably through geometry, is needed in life. But I don't think we should be teaching advanced math for 8 semesters in high school at the expense of more computer driven courses, or foreign language etc.
• Con_Alma

  I don't believe that Ohio requires trig and Calc for graduation. I thought it was 4 credits of math inclusive of Geo and algebra. If a local school requires higher math for graduation that's their decision.
• Laley23

  

  Con_Alma;1836300 wrote:I don't believe that Ohio requires trig and Calc for graduation. I thought it was 4 credits of math inclusive of Geo and algebra. If a local school requires higher math for graduation that's their decision.

  Fair.
  
  I was not part of the Public School system, so I should honestly just shut up about the topic at this point lol.
• friendfromlowry

  Spock;1836232 wrote:Sure the average person doesn't use those but it that was the trend, to get rid of higher level order thinking, we would be a real dumb society. Creating the zombie apocalypse one person at a time

  Like I said, I hadn't given it a lot of thought. There are a lot of subjects I probably wouldn't touch: biology, chemistry, geography, health, maybe English. Material you're likely to use on a day to day basis. You can't say "we're dumbing down society if we stop teaching the FOIL* method in schools! How will adults function!"
  
  * = Substitute most anything taught in algebra, geometry, trig, calculus. Yes there are some career fields that utilize it but the heavy majority of adults don't, and more importantly wouldn't even remember how if needed to.
  

  FatHobbit;1836252 wrote:If you cut out math, then we can not complain about a lack of STEM graduates. I think it's important for anyone who can potentially go to college to take as much math and science as possible. No need to limit their options that early in life.

  Then modify who can/should take it. Not everyone in high school is going to college. I remember math classes my freshmen and sophomore years being a joke because all of the burnout douchebags who didn't try were there wasting space, earning their C- or whatever passed them onto vocational school.
  Also, see below:
  

  Laley23;1836299 wrote:Well sure, I'm not advocating getting rid of math. I'm advocating to get rid of Calc...trig...stat as basically required courses in high school. Basic math, probably through geometry, is needed in life. But I don't think we should be teaching advanced math for 8 semesters in high school at the expense of more computer driven courses, or foreign language etc.

• sleeper

  

  Improve?
  
  Remove Betsy Devos immediately. That would be a start.
• thavoice

  I think they should keep the higher end math classes in HS. One important aspect in HS is finding out what you are very interested in, enjoy and do well in. Take some of those advanced classes away and you may never know what you are capable. There are classes that easily could be scrubbed, but I thinking keeping high end math classes is not among those that should get tossed
• QuakerOats

  sleeper;1836307 wrote:Improve?
  
  Remove NEA immediately. That would be a start.

  
  Fify
• Spock

  

  Lets look at the school models from anything pre 1970's and just go back to that. Vocational school for some, college prep for others. Special kids in a room down the hall. Everyone has PE daily, track and align kids the last 2 years of school based on 10 years of schooling that should determine the outcome of their education. Dont take calc and chemistry if you arent going to college, take a vocational or life skill class.
  
  the problem is that most schools have eliminated these subjects.
• OSH

  

  BRF;1836280 wrote:I'm against needless homework....giving homework just for the sake of giving homework.. i.e. - worksheets, coloring (any of you as parents been up past bedtime to help your kid finish some stupid useless assignment?)
  
  reading assignments - yes, but be sure to use the reading assignment in class
  
  Many times my students learned that other teachers would give writing assignments, but never read them or would just give a "completion" grade by seeing that there were words written. Shame on any teacher who gives writing assignments, but does not bother to read them and also make comments. (any of you as students ever write a bunch of non-sensical shit on a paper because you knew the teacher wasn't going to read it anyhow?)
  
  In high school and even middle school, many students have jobs after school and many are responsible for taking care of younger siblings when they get home. So cut out the bull shit homework.
  
  
  Teach in class what you want your students to know.

  A lot of this is dependent upon the teacher. I know my wife doesn't give homework...at all. She doesn't believe in it. If students have things to do, it's because they didn't do it in class or have additional catching up to do.
• Benny The Jet

  

  As a public school elementary teacher...there's a ton wrong. I think some good suggestions have been brought up. The problem I see a lot is decisions are being made nationally that don't have a lot of input from teachers necessarily. I HATE common core, especially the math. The amount of testing at the elementary level is insane as well.
  
  I have also noticed within the last 2-3 years a HUGE decrease in attention spans. I could be up in front with fireworks going off, and they'd pay attention for about 45 seconds.
  
  Parents are part of the issue as well. There's less and less accountability for the kids and more and more blame being put on the teachers. Just my opinion.
• Belly35

  

  sleeper;1836307 wrote:Improve?
  
  Remove Betsy Devos immediately. That would be a start.

  Trump Won Claim not my president and move on cup cake... Work to save your socialist democrate party.... Just think the next 16 years you'll be a the loser
• Ironman92

  

  A lot of good comments and ideas on here.
  
  I'm in my 19th year of teaching at an elementary school of a poor area and to top it off it is a huge district with a very low number of students. The district is 43 miles wide but the high school is only about 3 miles from the western end and kids are getting on buses at 5:25 am.
  
  IMO the frustrating thing that seems impossible is break is the ways of the worthless parents. It is so frustrating seeing the 7 hours of a school day being designed to best help each kid and then it is all overwhelmed by greater amount of time they are at home and everything they see and do there. It's so disheartening to see an adorable little 7 year old kid that works hard, does well and full of life and eagerness to learn and you just know that kid is very unlikely to make it in this world due to their surroundings. Often these kids are tough as nails but it just gradually breaks them down and kills their spirit. I hate it.
• friendfromlowry

  Belly35;1836369 wrote:Trump Won Claim not my president and move on cup cake... Work to save your socialist democrate party.... Just think the next 16 years you'll be a the loser

  Translation anyone?
• BRF

  

  Ironman92;1836370 wrote:
  
  It's so disheartening to see an adorable little 7 year old kid that works hard, does well and full of life and eagerness to learn and you just know that kid is very unlikely to make it in this world ......

  I'm just capturing this point you make to expand in a little different direction.
  
  I taught at the 12th grade level for 13 of my 36 years in public schools (the other 23 at the 8th grade level) and it was so blatantly apparent and sad that by that time, the students had been nicely placed in their "boxes" as to who would succeed and who would probably fail....who were "cool" and who were not. And I don't blame their parents on this one. I blame their shitty ass-kissing teachers who created that on their way up through the school system.
• Ironman92

  

  BRF;1836378 wrote:I'm just capturing this point you make to expand in a little different direction.
  
  I taught at the 12th grade level for 13 of my 36 years in public schools (the other 23 at the 8th grade level) and it was so blatantly apparent and sad that by that time, the students had been nicely placed in their "boxes" as to who would succeed and who would probably fail....who were "cool" and who were not. And I don't blame their parents on this one. I blame their shitty ass-kissing teachers who created that on their way up through the school system.

  The kids figure that out in the later part of elementary school. It's bigger at my son's school...he's in 7th grade. My school district is so tiny, it's simply different. Kids get along remarkably. The cool kids are there but there aren't many and they wouldn't be cool kids at most other schools. Where Im at the kinda strange kids without much to look forward to are right there with the cool kids. Fights are incredibly rare (believe it or not)
• Spock

  

  The world needs ditch diggers to. Just make them the best ditch digger you can.
• MontyBrunswick

  

  Spock;1836412 wrote:The world needs ditch diggers to. Just make them the best ditch digger you can.

  
  
• Ironman92

  

  MontyBrunswick;1836413 wrote:

  I just read this on FB....holy moses
  
  wemon? wounder? except (far more common)