Cleveland the new Ferguson, MO?

• BRF

  

  thavoice;1681287 wrote:Yeah, when the host on the radio said the officer was black it all made sense why the media isnt going batshit crazy.

  However on Fox8 news last night, they showed a pic of the cop and he looked pretty white to me.
• Zoltan

  jmog;1681091 wrote:Take the fact that it was a kid out of the equation for a minute. They had a person waving a gun around multiple people in a park, of course the officers are coming in "flying up to him".

  I disagree that of course they would come, "flying up to them." Their "tactics" approaching this situation seemed off, and some other police personnel agree.
  
  "The tactics were very poor," said David Thomas, senior research fellow for the Police Foundation. "If the driver would have stopped a distance away so that the primary officer wasn't right there to get involved in shooting, it may have played out differently."
  
  
  
  http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/police_procedure_experts_quest.html
• QuakerOats

  TedSheckler;1681098 wrote:Just like the 3 teens in St. Louis (2 black, 1 Hispanic) that killed the guy with a hammer. Where are the protests?

  
  And just like the white dad in Lorain killed by a black guy the other night, to steal his pizza money. No mention on ABC, CBS, NBC, etc..etc..
• WebFire

  Zoltan;1681589 wrote:I disagree that of course they would come, "flying up to them." Their "tactics" approaching this situation seemed off, and some other police personnel agree.
  
  "The tactics were very poor," said David Thomas, senior research fellow for the Police Foundation. "If the driver would have stopped a distance away so that the primary officer wasn't right there to get involved in shooting, it may have played out differently."
  
  
  
  http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/police_procedure_experts_quest.html

  I don't disagree with that. However, that doesn't excuse the suspect from pulling a weapon on police instead of complying. The still remains the reason he is dead.
• thavoice

  QuakerOats;1681609 wrote:And just like the white dad in Lorain killed by a black guy the other night, to steal his pizza money. No mention on ABC, CBS, NBC, etc..etc..

  Pizza money is a legit excuse for murder tho
• Zoltan

  No doubt their is a bias in reporting, however the main reason Ferguson and TM went "viral" is because no charges were filed.
  
  If you are citing examples where black people killed white people and got off without a trial that is more apples to apples.
• rrfan

  

  Just throwing this out there...Should we maybe talk about the fact that the boy in Ferguson was violent and broke the law. He was not just walking down the street he got shot because he did not follow the law and tried to hurt a cop. Don't let the facts get in the way of an Al's fight....
  
  
  Also, I would hope they would not file charges for any officer in that circumstance.
• TedSheckler

  

  Zoltan;1681680 wrote:No doubt their is a bias in reporting, however the main issue Ferguson and TM went "viral" is because no charges were filed.

  First, there is no evidence to support any reason to charge Officer Wilson. Second, Zimmerman was charged and found not guilty. I'm still waiting for you to provide any evidence that Wilson should have been charged.
• Zoltan

  TedSheckler;1681704 wrote:First, there is no evidence to support any reason to charge Officer Wilson. Second, Zimmerman was charged and found not guilty. I'm still waiting for you to provide any evidence that Wilson should have been charged.

  Why would I do that? I don't think he should be charged.
• TedSheckler

  

  My mistake. Misunderstood your point.
• Zoltan

  My point was people keep bringing up instances where someone black killed someone white and asking where all the outrage is? In all these examples the justice system charged/convicted the black people. That is not applies to applies. If you are going to go that route, OJ is the best example I can think of.
  
  With regards to Wilson, I don't think he should/would be convicted. I've seen some pretty compelling arguments though that the grand jury should have indicted him, based on how low their standards are to indict.
• WebFire

  Zoltan;1681718 wrote:My point was people keep bringing up instances where someone black killed someone white and asking where all the outrage is? In all these examples the justice system charged/convicted the black people. That is not applies to applies. If you are going to go that route, OJ is the best example I can think of.
  
  With regards to Wilson, I don't think he should/would be convicted. I've seen some pretty compelling arguments though that the grand jury should have indicted him, based on how low their standards are to indict.

  Were the cops in Cleveland or Utah charged? I didn't think they were. Also, the kind folks in Ferguson rioted/protested right after the incident. So that had nothing to do with charges.
• Zoltan

  WebFire;1681728 wrote:Were the cops in Cleveland or Utah charged? I didn't think they were. Also, the kind folks in Ferguson rioted/protested right after the incident. So that had nothing to do with charges.

  The Cleveland incident is fresh, not sure a decision has been made or not to charge. No idea what happened in Utah.
  
  The rioters in Ferguson are total idiots, everyone agrees on that. I'm not even including them when I talk about reasonable people who are outraged over the incident.
• KB0938

  It was a 12 year old child, if youd of stopped from a safe distance away and at least attempted to start some type of dialogue with the kid 99.999999% of scared children would drop the gun. When you pull up 5 feet from a suspect you know is armed your're putting yourself in a terrible situation both for your own safety and the safety of the kid. Where any type of movement ends with gun fire. At least if you stop a reasonable distance away (not sayin like 20 yards) you eliminate both of those issues.(for a short time at least)
  
  I dont understand how cops expect someone to comply when they were basically shooting before the car even had stopped. Thats if they even gave any type of commands. I thought the Mike Brown shooting was clear as day that the officer did what he had to do, and I thought this one was open and close too....before seeing the video. This, the Eric Garner case and the John Crawford case are all very questionable, but Garners killer and Crawfords killer(s) are both already off. Shocker.
• Zoltan

  KB0938;1681764 wrote:It was a 12 year old child, if youd of stopped from a safe distance away and at least attempted to start some type of dialogue with the kid 99.999999% of scared children would drop the gun. When you pull up 5 feet from a suspect you know is armed your're putting yourself in a terrible situation both for your own safety and the safety of the kid. Where any type of movement ends with gun fire. At least if you stop a reasonable distance away (not sayin like 20 yards) you eliminate both of those issues.(for a short time at least)
  
  I dont understand how cops expect someone to comply when they were basically shooting before the car even had stopped. Thats if they even gave any type of commands. I thought the Mike Brown shooting was clear as day that the officer did what he had to do, and I thought this one was open and close too....before seeing the video. This, the Eric Garner case and the John Crawford case are all very questionable, but Garners killer and Crawfords killer(s) are both already off. Shocker.

  Yep, pretty much exactly what I have been saying.
• WebFire

  KB0938;1681764 wrote:It was a 12 year old child, if youd of stopped from a safe distance away and at least attempted to start some type of dialogue with the kid 99.999999% of scared children would drop the gun. When you pull up 5 feet from a suspect you know is armed your're putting yourself in a terrible situation both for your own safety and the safety of the kid. Where any type of movement ends with gun fire. At least if you stop a reasonable distance away (not sayin like 20 yards) you eliminate both of those issues.(for a short time at least)
  
  I dont understand how cops expect someone to comply when they were basically shooting before the car even had stopped. Thats if they even gave any type of commands. I thought the Mike Brown shooting was clear as day that the officer did what he had to do, and I thought this one was open and close too....before seeing the video. This, the Eric Garner case and the John Crawford case are all very questionable, but Garners killer and Crawfords killer(s) are both already off. Shocker.

  So when a cop car pulls up to you quickly, you think the right thing to do is pull a gun from your waistband? I don't understand how this part is excluded from your thoughts.
• KB0938

  WebFire;1681793 wrote:So when a cop car pulls up to you quickly, you think the right thing to do is pull a gun from your waistband? I don't understand how this part is excluded from your thoughts.

  Hes a kid and probably knows he shouldnt be fucking around with it and got in trouble, if it was a grown man id figure he was pulling it on me, a kid is probably trying to ditch it. Either way the situation is avoided if they dont roll up on top of him SWAT takedown style. Also ive heard to where the officer supposedly said "drop the gun" not sure how you drop it without first going for it. But thats hearsay the audio hasnt been released so idk.
  
  
  I first heard the story about this and figured the cop had his gun drawn and pointed at the kid and was giving him orders to drop the gun or put his hands up and the kid made a quick move and he got put down for it. But it looks as if as soon as the officer gets out of the car before having even the time to give an order he was firing. Thats the issue i have with this, same as the John Crawford situation in Walmart. If you disobey officers after they give you orders thats one thing, when you have no chance to even comply its a completely different situation
  
  
  
  Given the bullshit manner in which the cop that put a chokehold on Eric Garner and the cops who gunned down John Crawford got off though, it will only be a matter of time before yet again they let the cops skate in this scenario
• KB0938

  Zoltan;1681779 wrote:Yep, pretty much exactly what I have been saying.

  But apparently cops can do no wrong.
• WebFire

  KB0938;1681842 wrote:But apparently cops can do no wrong.

  I can pin this back on you. Kids waving guns and pulling it out when police arrive can do no wrong.
  
  Dumb isn't it?
• WebFire

  KB0938;1681840 wrote:Hes a kid and probably knows he shouldnt be fucking around with it and got in trouble, if it was a grown man id figure he was pulling it on me, a kid is probably trying to ditch it. Either way the situation is avoided if they dont roll up on top of him SWAT takedown style. Also ive heard to where the officer supposedly said "drop the gun" not sure how you drop it without first going for it. But thats hearsay the audio hasnt been released so idk.
  
  
  I first heard the story about this and figured the cop had his gun drawn and pointed at the kid and was giving him orders to drop the gun or put his hands up and the kid made a quick move and he got put down for it. But it looks as if as soon as the officer gets out of the car before having even the time to give an order he was firing. Thats the issue i have with this, same as the John Crawford situation in Walmart. If you disobey officers after they give you orders thats one thing, when you have no chance to even comply its a completely different situation
  
  
  
  Given the bullshit manner in which the cop that put a chokehold on Eric Garner and the cops who gunned down John Crawford got off though, it will only be a matter of time before yet again they let the cops skate in this scenario

  First of all, let's drop the "12 year old kid" shit. The only thing relayed to the officers was a young black male. 2nd, you say the whole thing could have been avoided if the cops approached differently. But rewind just a little more...the whole thing never would even have happened if the kid wasn't waving a gun around pointing it at people, and then pulling it out when cops arrive.
  
  Why do the cops get all the blame from you when they didn't create the situation that required their response, on high alert?
• Con_Alma

  KB0938;1681842 wrote:But apparently cops can do no wrong.

  
  Sure they can ...and do. I just haven't seen it proved in the recent respective cases/incidents.
• KB0938

  WebFire;1681845 wrote:First of all, let's drop the "12 year old kid shit". The only thing relayed to the officers was a young black male. 2nd, you say the whole thing could have been avoided if the cops approached differently. But rewind just a little more...the whole thing never would even have happened if the kid wasn't waving a gun around pointing it at people, and then pulling it out when cops arrive.
  
  Why do the cops get all the blame from you when they didn't create the situation that required their response, on high alert?

  Theyd of realized what they were dealing with (a child)if they didnt roll up onto the grass 2 feet in front of the person and shoot before even assessing the situation now wouldnt they? Thats the part I have a major issue with. If you get a call with an armed suspect supposedly why would you pull up 5 feet from him then exit your damn car? Im not a police officer obviously, but that CANNOT be SOP. Its basically inviting a dangerous situation. Sure any armed suspect call is dangerous, but the way the approached it clearly did nothing to defuse the situation
• KB0938

  Con_Alma;1681846 wrote:Sure they can ...and do. I just haven't seen it proved in the recent respective cases/incidents.

  What did John Crawford do to deserve being shot?
• Con_Alma

  KB0938;1681848 wrote:What did John Crawford do to deserve being shot?

  I have no idea? Has the officer been shown to do so improperly?
• Con_Alma

  KB0938;1681847 wrote:... but the way the approached it clearly did nothing to defuse the situation

  Wrong. The way they did it completely diffused the situation. That's the issue.