So, a guy I knew left his wife for his sister ...

• Heretic

  

  ohiobucks1;1542831 wrote:Your belief is un-american .
  
  But seriously, that is how/why laws should/are supposed to be made.
  
  
  Does doing drugs effect another person? No, but it's still criminalized. Why? Because it goes against our societal norms.

  Societal norms or norms of specific interest groups that happen to have loud and powerful voices?
• justincredible

  

  Heretic;1542843 wrote:Societal norms or norms of specific interest groups that happen to have loud and powerful voices?

  Yep. Like GoChiefs said, $$$$$$$$$.
  
  Also, I'm pretty sure the feds (DEA) are the largest drug traffickers in the world. The violent criminals are the ones enforcing the laws. What could go wrong?
• vball10set

  justincredible;1542844 wrote:Yep. Like GoChiefs said, $$$$$$$$$.

  Actually, he said $$$$$$$
• justincredible

  

  There will ALWAYS be a market for drugs. Always. No matter their legal status and what punishment you dish out. Our prisons are overcrowded, we've spent (wasted) a buttload of money on it, and addiction rates have remained at the same level since before the drug war started. The drug war is a dismal failure, it's racist by nature, and it needs to end. How much money do you think we could save if we spent it on treatment (for the small percentage of drug users that actually need the help) and education instead of incarceration?
• Wally

  ohiobucks1;1542822 wrote: Anything that makes society "cringe" has statutes made to criminalize it. Incest is one of those offenses.

  Gay sex makes me cringe. How does that compare to incest?
• DeyDurkie5

  

  justincredible;1542850 wrote:There will ALWAYS be a market for drugs. Always. No matter their legal status and what punishment you dish out. Our prisons are overcrowded, we've spent (wasted) a buttload of money on it, and addiction rates have remained at the same level since before the drug war started. The drug war is a dismal failure, it's racist by nature, and it needs to end. How much money do you think we could save if we spent it on treatment (for the small percentage of drug users that actually need the help) and education instead of incarceration?

  
  This thread is about incest..please take your drug talk to the appropriate thread.
• justincredible

  

  DeyDurkie5;1542853 wrote:This thread is about incest..please take your drug talk to the appropriate thread.

  Okay.
• Con_Alma

  justincredible;1542850 wrote:There will ALWAYS be a market for drugs. Always. No matter their legal status and what punishment you dish out. Our prisons are overcrowded, we've spent (wasted) a buttload of money on it, and addiction rates have remained at the same level since before the drug war started. The drug war is a dismal failure, it's racist by nature, and it needs to end. How much money do you think we could save if we spent it on treatment (for the small percentage of drug users that actually need the help) and education instead of incarceration?

  I disagree. It's hardly a failure. It's not about deterrence nor money spent. It's a punishment. We have always legislated towards a behavioral, societal goal. It may be a goal that's never reached but the laws are a reflection of the society we seek to become.
  
  There may be a day that marijuana is legal. We are certainly closer to it than a decade ago...but that day isn't today.
• queencitybuckeye

  Wally;1542851 wrote:Gay sex makes me cringe.

  Need more lube.
• queencitybuckeye

  Con_Alma;1542859 wrote:I disagree. It's hardly a failure. It's not about deterrence nor money spent. It's a punishment. We have always legislated towards a behavioral, societal goal. It may be a goal that's never reached but the laws are a reflection of the society we seek to become.
  
  There may be a day that marijuana is legal. We are certainly closer to it than a decade ago...but that day isn't today.

  And when it is legal, how does one pretend that it not being legal wasn't a complete waste of resources?
• Con_Alma

  Why would anyone have to pretend? It was a reflection of the desire at the time it was put into place. It's not uncommon for a mass majority to be required to change such laws.
• queencitybuckeye

  Con_Alma;1542864 wrote:Why would anyone have to pretend? It was a reflection of the desire at the time it was put into place. It's not uncommon for a mass majority to be required to change such laws.

  The idea that the laws reflect the desire of the majority is absurd.
• Con_Alma

  The majority???? Maybe, maybe not. They are a reflection of the representatives of the people at the time they are legislated.
• justincredible

  

  Con_Alma;1542859 wrote:It's hardly a failure.

  This is failure at a massive scale.
  
  
• I Wear Pants

  Con_Alma;1542868 wrote:The majority???? Maybe, maybe not. They are a reflection of the representatives of the people at the time they are legislated.

  So what is an unjust law in your mind?
• Con_Alma

  ???? It punished those who broke the law. That is it's purpose. It seems to be continuing to succeed in my view. Increased expenditures based on increased illegal activity.
  
  I think you would have a better argument claiming the people don't want it to be illegal anymore.
• Con_Alma

  I Wear Pants;1542873 wrote:So what is an unjust law in your mind?

  Those that violate unalienable, civil rights.
• justincredible

  

  Con_Alma;1542876 wrote:Those that violate unalienable, civil rights.

  http://www.chron.com/opinion/outlook/article/Pitts-War-on-Drugs-has-been-an-assault-on-basic-4732844.php
• Con_Alma

  It's the individual who is making decisions that are impacting their lives....not the law.
  
  The use of marijuana is hardly a civil right. I am interested in reading any such ruling from a court.
• queencitybuckeye

  Con_Alma;1542875 wrote:???? It punished those who broke the law. That is it's purpose.

  The purpose of law is supposed to go beyond that. There is supposed to be a reason for some action to be illegal beyond "because we want it to be".
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Con_Alma;1542888 wrote:It's the individual who is making decisions that are impacting their lives....not the law.
  
  The use of marijuana is hardly a civil right. I am interested in reading any such ruling from a court.

  It's a fucking plant that grows from the ground. If I want to eat dirt, I can freaking eat dirt. They should make poison ivy illegal, since it causes allergic reactions that suck.
• Con_Alma

  ernest_t_bass;1542894 wrote:It's a fucking plant that grows from the ground. If I want to eat dirt, I can freaking eat dirt. They should make poison ivy illegal, since it causes allergic reactions that suck.

  That's not the belief of all people.
• I Wear Pants

  Con_Alma;1542875 wrote:???? It punished those who broke the law. That is it's purpose. It seems to be continuing to succeed in my view. Increased expenditures based on increased illegal activity.
  
  I think you would have a better argument claiming the people don't want it to be illegal anymore.

  False, you'll not find many people (perhaps not any) who created or advocate for the law saying that the reason for it is that we just, really need to punish people that do drugs. They're bad and they need to pay for doing drugs by being arrested, with deadly force if needed, and locked in a cage for decades.
  
  No, the law was and is intended to protect the public health from the effects of addiction and the violence that comes with the drug trade. The problem is that the law has not reduced addiction or use and has increased the violence while at the same time spending massive sums of money. You cannot spin that as a success. It is a complete failure.
• Con_Alma

  queencitybuckeye;1542889 wrote:The purpose of law is supposed to go beyond that. There is supposed to be a reason for some action to be illegal beyond "because we want it to be".

  Are you suggesting there wasn't a believed reason for it to be illegal when it was legislated????
  
  For laws such as this to be reversed or overturned they tend to require either a judicial ruling of unconstitutionality or a mass majority putting pressure on their representative. I believe that will happen sooner than later....just not today. It's clear society is moving in that direction.
• justincredible

  

  I Wear Pants;1542900 wrote:False, you'll not find many people (perhaps not any) who created or advocate for the law saying that the reason for it is that we just, really need to punish people that do drugs. They're bad and they need to pay for doing drugs by being arrested, with deadly force if needed, and locked in a cage for decades.
  
  No, the law was and is intended to protect the public health from the effects of addiction and the violence that comes with the drug trade. The problem is that the law has not reduced addiction or use and has increased the violence while at the same time spending massive sums of money. You cannot spin that as a success. It is a complete failure.