Bitcoins?

• queencitybuckeye

  I'm less confident in predicting the future of such things, but I laugh when I see the words "bitcoin" and "invest" used in the same posts. "Investing" in bitcoins currently doesn't seem to me to be much different than saying I'm "investing" in lottery tickets.
• dlazz

  queencitybuckeye;1555822 wrote:I'm less confident in predicting the future of such things, but I laugh when I see the words "bitcoin" and "invest" used in the same posts. "Investing" in bitcoins currently doesn't seem to me to be much different than saying I'm "investing" in lottery tickets.

  It's more so buying unregulated lottery tickets.
• Me?

  

  You could make that claim about any stock people invest in.
  
  I have a friend who is invested and has made a pretty large sum of money from his initial investment. He's playing with house money now essentially, and he's even used them to purchase quite a few things, such as both new gaming systems, some new appliances, a new computer which he's using to mine Litecoin and sold some of his gains and was able to pay off one of his student loans. It's working out quite well for him.
  
  My point is, cryptocurrency is completely legitimate for the future and it will be a part of the future, regardless of what happens with Bitcoin. It does not need to be adopted 100% across the board to have a place.
• gut

  Bitcoin isn't really an investment but more of a ponzi scheme.
• Me?

  

  gut;1555895 wrote:Bitcoin isn't really an investment but more of a ponzi scheme.

  I'd love to hear your explanation of how it's a Ponzi scheme.
• Pick6

  

  investing in the stock market and investing in bitcoin are hardly comparable. Give me a break. But if you're talking specifically penny stocks, I might agree with you.
• Me?

  

  How many people lost their ass when GM went bankrupt? I know a few. I didn't say that Bitcoin=public stock, I said that you can say any investment is a risky investment. The idea that any return on an investment is guaranteed has put a lot of people on the streets.
• gut

  Me?;1555898 wrote:I'd love to hear your explanation of how it's a Ponzi scheme.

  There's nothing of tangible value being created here, absolutely nothing...might as well be buying and selling the Brooklyn Bridge. The price and value is completely irrational, people are mainly hoping to sell to another sucker at a higher price.
  
  Your friend and others have been lucky enough to cash some gains because of suckers wanting in after them. That's pretty much how a ponzi scheme works. If everyone tries to cash out at once, they will all receive exactly $0.
• Me?

  

  That is not how a Ponzi scheme works, but ok.
  
  And uh...what exactly gives the USD tangible value?
• gut

  Me?;1555904 wrote:That is not how a Ponzi scheme works, but ok.
  
  And uh...what exactly gives the USD tangible value?

  It's exactly how a ponzi scheme works - legitimizing the "investment" by paying early investors with capital from new investors until eventually you run out of money. A dollar is worth a dollar - I don't buy a dollar today and then sell it for $3 tomorrow.
  
  LMAO at people referring to Bitcoin "market cap" - it has no productive value and represents no claim on earnings or assets.
• Me?

  

  So then tell me who is orchestrating this Ponzi scheme...
• Me?

  

  And a dollar isn't worth a dollar. The dollar has lost approximately 97% of it's value over the last 100 years. You need a lesson in economic reality rather than just economic theory. I suppose you think inflation is a healthy thing?
• dlazz

  Me?;1555914 wrote:So then tell me who is orchestrating this Ponzi scheme...

  I don't understand his Ponzi scheme analogy, but the creator of bitcoin is apparently unknown. I dont see why he couldn't be sitting on lots of bitcoin waiting to sell. Seeing as how it was really easy to mine a coin at first, early adopters could've really racked up coins
• justincredible

  

  Me?;1555904 wrote:And uh...what exactly gives the USD tangible value?

  According to Krugman, men with guns.
  
  http://consultingbyrpm.com/blog/2013/12/krugman-fiat-money-is-backed-by-men-with-guns.html
• gut

  Me?;1555914 wrote:So then tell me who is orchestrating this Ponzi scheme...

  I would say the exchanges and probably some of the larger mining operations and criminal organizations sitting on the bulk of the supply. And there's growing suspicion of significant market manipulation.
  
  What you're not understanding is this is not a fiat currency right now, but merely an "asset" that produces no tangible value. Really it should be viewed as stock in a consortium of unregulated, unaudited exchanges because that's really the only way to cash out into a real currency. That's what makes it a ponzi scheme, because those exchanges don't have reserves - they are only able to convert your Bitcoin to cash if another investor comes in to buy.
• Me?

  

  justincredible;1555921 wrote:According to Krugman, men with guns.
  
  http://consultingbyrpm.com/blog/2013/12/krugman-fiat-money-is-backed-by-men-with-guns.html

  Exactly LOL
  
  
  So, I guess I totally understand his Ponzi scheme analogy (although how could it be an analogy, it either is one or it isn't, right?), it's based completely in the assumption that there is some cloaked figure laughing all the way to the bank and not in any real information or knowledge. So yeah...I guess I can make some equally wild assumptions, throw them at the wall and hope one sticks too. Bitcoin is actually funding the New York Yankees new free agent signings. It's really just Microsoft trying to sell more PCs. Maybe it's terrorists trying to force people to use up as much bandwidth as possible. Maybe it's the Grinch trying to wreck everyone's Christmas. Or maybe, just maybe it's a decentralized, peer-to-peer digital currency that you don't want to admit has a future because you don't understand it. Who knows really, I guess we're all just pissing in the wind!!!
• queencitybuckeye

  Me?;1555891 wrote:You could make that claim about any stock people invest in.

  Not true. Every stock has a company behind it with tangible assets, even those whose assets are overwhelmingly intangible. They have real human beings as employees. They are real because they are real, not because we have decided they are.
  

  I have a friend who is invested and has made a pretty large sum of money from his initial investment. He's playing with house money now essentially, and he's even used them to purchase quite a few things, such as both new gaming systems, some new appliances, a new computer which he's using to mine Litecoin and sold some of his gains and was able to pay off one of his student loans. It's working out quite well for him.

  I know a guy who won the Powerball jackpot. He's doing quite well. Doesn't make playing the lottery an investment.
  

  My point is, cryptocurrency is completely legitimate for the future and it will be a part of the future, regardless of what happens with Bitcoin. It does not need to be adopted 100% across the board to have a place.

  You may be absolutely correct, but the idea of choosing one and putting money into it is more correctly called speculation rather than investing. Not the same thing. That the Winklevi are associated with this in any way is pretty clear evidence that smart money stays away.
• Me?

  

  Half the market is based on speculation. I can't even believe I'm having this conversation in the economic reality that we find ourselves in, it's hilarious really.
• gut

  Me?;1555915 wrote:And a dollar isn't worth a dollar. The dollar has lost approximately 97% of it's value over the last 100 years. You need a lesson in economic reality rather than just economic theory. I suppose you think inflation is a healthy thing?

  No, $1 has always been $1. A dollar from 1965 buys exactly the same today as a dollar from 2010. Inflation as it relates to the price of goods is a different issue.
  
  In today's world, very modest inflation is indeed a good thing. Financial markets, indeed whole economies, are completely geared for inflation. Wages do not adjust as fast as prices, which is why deflation is so problematic.
• Me?

  

  Some of you need to do a lot more research into Bitcoin, especially anyone saying it has no tangible value. The mining itself creates real value. But I don't imagine continuing this conversation is going to benefit any of us. Maybe we should just wait 5 years and revisit it.
• Me?

  

  gut;1555940 wrote:No, $1 has always been $1. A dollar from 1965 buys exactly the same today as a dollar from 2010. Inflation as it relates to the price of goods is a different issue.
  
  In today's world, very modest inflation is indeed a good thing. Financial markets, indeed whole economies, are completely geared for inflation. Wages do not adjust as fast as prices, which is why deflation is so problematic.

  HAHAHAHAHA
  
  Done...I'm done...thank you very much for the comedy though. Laughter is good for the soul!
• Pick6

  

  Me?;1555937 wrote:Half the market is based on speculation. I can't even believe I'm having this conversation in the economic reality that we find ourselves in, it's hilarious really.

  What's hilarious is you defending it so much. Enjoy your penny stock. I thought messing around with high risk "investments" was once fun, too.
• Me?

  

  Pick6;1555950 wrote:What's hilarious is you defending it so much. Enjoy your penny stock. I thought messing around with high risk "investments" was once fun, too.

  I don't have a single penny invested in Bitcoin.
• queencitybuckeye

  Me?;1555951 wrote:I don't have a single penny invested in Bitcoin.

  No one does.
• gut

  Me?;1555941 wrote:The mining itself creates real value.

  It does? What productive good or service is created by mining? I know you mean to say the electricity and computer demand, however there's no economic value added from the mining process itself.
  
  You really want to compare it to gold and argue it will replace or compete with gold as a hedging asset/store of value. The problem is gold has thousands of years of history and global recognition as having vaue. The larger problem is there's absolutely no need to replace or have an alternative to gold. An equally large problem is it could be Bitcoin 5-years from now and then Litecoin 10 years from now - which would ultimately be inflationary and defeats the whole purpose behind it.