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Bitcoins?

  • gut
    Commander of Awesome;1549060 wrote:this seems relevant here:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-falls-below-900-2013-12

    That's a huge hurdle to bitcoin becoming a viable alternative currency. As a hedge or store of value, investors already have gold (and to lesser extent, silver). So that leaves transactions as the ultimate driver of demand/adoption, but such volatility doesn't lend itself to facilitating transactions - too much risk, you wouldn't want to get paid in bitcoins with that volatility nor would a merchant want to take bitcoins as payment.

    And if you would take bitcoin as payment, but need to immediately flip them to avoid potential losses....after a while, what's the point?
  • Iliketurtles
    gut;1549101 wrote:That's a huge hurdle to bitcoin becoming a viable alternative currency. As a hedge or store of value, investors already have gold (and to lesser extent, silver). So that leaves transactions as the ultimate driver of demand/adoption, but such volatility doesn't lend itself to facilitating transactions - too much risk, you wouldn't want to get paid in bitcoins with that volatility nor would a merchant want to take bitcoins as payment.

    And if you would take bitcoin as payment, but need to immediately flip them to avoid potential losses....after a while, what's the point?
    Yeah I agree with this.

    Although I don't know much about bitcoins just started looking into them early this week when it was mentioned on the SVP Radio Show.
  • gut
    yeah, and you wouldn't want to conduct your transactions in gold, either, because it's plenty volatile enough such that most individuals could not afford the risk of holding significant amounts of gold to finance their lifestyle.
  • dlazz
    gut;1549163 wrote:yeah, and you wouldn't want to conduct your transactions in gold, either, because it's plenty volatile enough such that most individuals could not afford the risk of holding significant amounts of gold to finance their lifestyle.
    But the difference is that people are many many many more times likely to conduct a transaction in gold because people know what gold is and it has a tangible value.

    If someone gave an average person a gold bar, they'd know it has value. If you gave an average person 10 bitcoin, they're going to look at you like you're crazy.

    You can't just make a currency and expect it to be valuable. The value of it right now is only high because a bunch of investors bought in and are holding onto it.

    I predict it'll crash and become valueless here soon.
  • bases_loaded
    Lost half its value overnight?

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/18/bitcoin-plummets-china-payment-processors-digital-cryptocurrency
  • Pick6
    saw that lol. I have trouble feeling sorry for anyone who loses investing in this.
  • #1DBag
    [video=youtube_share;PfeA94BedQI][/video]
  • gut
    Scary thing is, it was $120 not that long ago...meaning it could still have a lot further to fall.
  • I Wear Pants
    It's basically a penny stock.
  • gut
    I Wear Pants;1555098 wrote:It's basically a penny stock.
    Except a penny stock, in theory, is actually a claim against future earnings. There are no earnings with Bitcoin...purely a speculative asset.
  • Glory Days
    I read an article here in LA where a car dealership was selling high end cars worth 100k+ for Bitcoins. I hope they cashed them out before the bottom fell out.
  • gut
    Glory Days;1555111 wrote:I read an article here in LA where a car dealership was selling high end cars worth 100k+ for Bitcoins. I hope they cashed them out before the bottom fell out.
    Thought I saw a blurb where that really wasn't the case - more of a promo, I think you have to convert them to cash before actually buying. Maybe they had something set-up to facilitate the transaction.
  • gut
    Also consider this - prior to the run-up that began in NOV, daily trading volume averaged something like $2M (in dollars) for the better part of 6 months. Not exactly a real liquid market to cash-out $100k in coins over a day or two without moving the price against yourself.

    Then volume spiked, as high as $80M a few days in DEC (partly because of the 6-fold increase in price over a few months, but still comparably as high as $15M or so). But this market isn't really regulated, and I'm not convinced there isn't some market manipulation. 2nd time this year Bitcoin has lost 2/3 of it's value over the course of about 1 month.
  • Glory Days
    gut;1555116 wrote:Thought I saw a blurb where that really wasn't the case - more of a promo, I think you have to convert them to cash before actually buying. Maybe they had something set-up to facilitate the transaction.
    No they actually made the sale. there was a company in Atlanta that cashed out the bitcoins.
  • gut
    Glory Days;1555140 wrote:No they actually made the sale. there was a company in Atlanta that cashed out the bitcoins.
    What happened was the pay service verified the coins, converted them, and then wired the money to the dealer. So it was exactly as I said - they didn't actually sell the car for bitcoins and the dealer never held the bitcoins as a form of payment.

    That is entirely different from walking into the dealer, "handing" them 81 bitcoins or whatever, and then taking the car home. Doesn't appear they even quoted or agreed to a price in bitcoin. Publicity stunt, pure and simple.

    http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/6/5181864/lamborghini-dealership-starts-accepting-bitcoin
    "UPDATE: This announcement now looks overblown. The general manager     tells CNBC that he made the customer convert bitcoins into dollars before accepting them. "
  • Me?
    Cryptocurrencies are here to stay, like it or not. Doesn't mean Bitcoin will be the standard, but there is a HUGE market for them and the desire for a decentralized, stable currency is growing by the day. I love when I hear people talk about their "legitimacy" as a currency and use the USD to make their claim, you've had to drink a lot of koolaid to believe the USD is a strong currency. The bigger story here is cryptocurrencies in general, not specifically Bitcoin. Instability is to be expected in the beginning, eventually one of them will become a major, legitimate currency and will be used widely for online transactions. It'll have doubters for 20 years, so that shouldn't shock anyone either. I'm sure when the first car was operational back in the day it had plenty of doubters too.
  • dlazz
    Me?;1555759 wrote:Cryptocurrencies are here to stay, like it or not. Doesn't mean Bitcoin will be the standard, but there is a HUGE market for them and the desire for a decentralized, stable currency is growing by the day. I love when I hear people talk about their "legitimacy" as a currency and use the USD to make their claim, you've had to drink a lot of koolaid to believe the USD is a strong currency. The bigger story here is cryptocurrencies in general, not specifically Bitcoin. Instability is to be expected in the beginning, eventually one of them will become a major, legitimate currency and will be used widely for online transactions. It'll have doubters for 20 years, so that shouldn't shock anyone either. I'm sure when the first car was operational back in the day it had plenty of doubters too.
    Cryptocurrency won't take off for another 20 years, and might not every fully take off because a EMP would leave everyone penniless
  • Me?
    What do you think an EMP would do to the USD?? LOL
  • dlazz
    Me?;1555782 wrote:What do you think an EMP would do to the USD?? LOL
    USD could still be accepted and would have value since it physically exists.

    Cryptocurrencies would vanish.

    LOL
  • Me?
    dlazz;1555789 wrote:USD could still be accepted and would have value since it physically exists.

    Cryptocurrencies would vanish.

    LOL
    Uhhh...aside from the fact that in that scenario, shit would hit the fan and it may render the already worthless dollar completely worthless (because what do I do with paper other than burn it to keep warm), I hope you have money stashed in the mattress. You wouldn't be able to withdraw anything. Cards wouldn't work. There is more digital fiat currency than actual physical currency in the first place. Banks run almost exclusively on computers. It would be every bit as fucked.
  • dlazz
    Me?;1555795 wrote:Uhhh...aside from the fact that in that scenario, shit would hit the fan and it may render the already worthless dollar completely worthless (because what do I do with paper other than burn it to keep warm), I hope you have money stashed in the mattress. You wouldn't be able to withdraw anything. Cards wouldn't work. There is more digital fiat currency than actual physical currency in the first place. Banks run almost exclusively on computers. It would be every bit as fucked.
    I'd rather hold something that MIGHT have value as opposed to something that didn't.

    What if there was a natural disaster where you lived and electricity was out and the rest of the country remained unaffected. What you do then?
  • gut
    Cryptocurrencies are only going to exist in a meaningful way IF the govt relinquishes it's monopoly on currency and IF a major player is backing/guaranteeing it (such as Goldman Sachs, etc...)
  • Me?
    dlazz;1555801 wrote:I'd rather hold something that MIGHT have value as opposed to something that didn't.

    What if there was a natural disaster where you lived and electricity was out and the rest of the country remained unaffected. What you do then?
    You're basing your entire argument around someone being 100% invested in Bitcoin. I never said it would take over currencies and be the only currency and that people would/should ONLY be involved with cryptocurrency. In other words, don't put words in my mouth and then argue against the words you created...
  • dlazz
    Me?;1555810 wrote:You're basing your entire argument around someone being 100% invested in Bitcoin.
    If Cryptocurrencies take off it will require 100% adoption, otherwise nobody will take it seriously. They will continue to fail in the years ahead.

    And there's no need to be a dick about it.
  • Classyposter58
    Me?;1555795 wrote:Uhhh...aside from the fact that in that scenario, shit would hit the fan and it may render the already worthless dollar completely worthless (because what do I do with paper other than burn it to keep warm), I hope you have money stashed in the mattress. You wouldn't be able to withdraw anything. Cards wouldn't work. There is more digital fiat currency than actual physical currency in the first place. Banks run almost exclusively on computers. It would be every bit as fucked.
    Haha you only use paper to burn? You don't write and read things on it as well?