Ask a black person
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I Wear Pants
Why do they need to paint their face to do that? Just dress up.majorspark;1523028 wrote:I agree and you are right.
I get the history. History has consequences. I understand that. But at what point do white adults having innocent fun by painting their face to reflect African culture cease to be offensive? If that was their intent. When does common sense intervene? -
majorspark
They don't need to. But why be offended for eternity if they do? Especially if the intent is not to disparage a race or culture.I Wear Pants;1523075 wrote:Why do they need to paint their face to do that? Just dress up.
I just read a story this morning that some college in Colorado is advising its students to avoid halloween costumes that may be offensive to other cultures or groups including cowboys and indian costumes. The intent to be disrespectful need not be present. -
raiderbuckmajorspark;1523028 wrote:I agree and you are right.
I get the history. History has consequences. I understand that. But at what point do white adults having innocent fun by painting their face to reflect African culture cease to be offensive? If that was their intent. When does common sense intervene?
Exactly. I think that most intelligent blacks (or whoever else was offended) would say that dressing up in African dashikis isn't offensive at all, because that's what they wear in some African countries. It's painting your face to perpetrate what you think and African looks like is what gets under the skin. My skin color is not a costume that you can just joke about. It's in poor taste.I Wear Pants;1523075 wrote:Why do they need to paint their face to do that? Just dress up. -
jmog
This makes no logical sense however. If someone painted their face white I can't even think of a reason why I would be offended.raiderbuck;1523161 wrote:Exactly. I think that most intelligent blacks (or whoever else was offended) would say that dressing up in African dashikis isn't offensive at all, because that's what they wear in some African countries. It's painting your face to perpetrate what you think and African looks like is what gets under the skin. My skin color is not a costume that you can just joke about. It's in poor taste. -
BoatShoes
Maybe that's because there aren't still white people alive who were beaten down by black people with power, weren't allowed to drink at the same water fountains as black people, etc.?jmog;1523170 wrote:This makes no logical sense however. If someone painted their face white I can't even think of a reason why I would be offended. -
BoatShoes
40-50 years is hardly an eternity after centuries of subjugation.majorspark;1523103 wrote:They don't need to. But why be offended for eternity if they do? Especially if the intent is not to disparage a race or culture. -
thavoice
In our area, predominantly white, if you see a black guy it is usually with a very fat white chick. Not the attractive women with a big round ass, but flat out fat. They seem to typically mooch off of those women.#1DBag;1523069 wrote:Black dudes receive a complex for being attracted to white females.
The ebony babes are happy to receive your attention and do not purport their "attitude". The same reason "Scandal" is popular among ebony babes. -
raiderbuck
Perhaps I should've explained why blackface is offensive...jmog;1523170 wrote:This makes no logical sense however. If someone painted their face white I can't even think of a reason why I would be offended. -
Heretic
Well, uh, considering that the art of blackface tended to be used for minstrel/vaudeville shows to depict them as stereotypical caricatures, it's probably more because of that than the simple act of face-painting. In that it's not looked at as "innocent fun to reflect African culture" as said above, but "fun by reliving old racist stereotypes".jmog;1523170 wrote:This makes no logical sense however. If someone painted their face white I can't even think of a reason why I would be offended. -
thavoice
As far as blackface goes.....was in a parade last summer and one of the characters played Bubba from Forrest Gump. HE of course had black face on. There was a white woman with a black dude at the beginning of the route. The white woman started berating him how it was racist...the black dude laughed and calmed the woman down and said..."its bubba...he is a black guy"Heretic;1523195 wrote:Well, uh, considering that the art of blackface tended to be used for minstrel/vaudeville shows to depict them as stereotypical caricatures, it's probably more because of that than the simple act of face-painting. In that it's not looked at as "innocent fun to reflect African culture" as said above, but "fun by reliving old racist stereotypes".
Cool story -
majorspark
Well how long does it take then? A few hundred years? A thousand? My ancestors on my Fathers side are all amish/mennonite decedents of the Anabaptist movement. They were persecuted and killed as heretics by the Roman Catholic church for going against their teachings concerning baptism. The term Anabaptist itself was at the time a disparaging term.BoatShoes;1523174 wrote:40-50 years is hardly an eternity after centuries of subjugation.
If I go to a halloween party and see someone dressed in a pope or crusader costume I am not offended. Nor am I offended if a Catholic high school's mascot is the crusaders. I am just not going to get offended by something that does not have malicious intent behind it whether it be in bad taste or not.
Maybe I should be offended that the pope said ideological Christians are an illness. After all what do we want to do with an illness? -
Gblockmajorspark;1523249 wrote:Well how long does it take then? A few hundred years? A thousand? My ancestors on my Fathers side are all amish/mennonite decedents of the Anabaptist movement. They were persecuted and killed as heretics by the Roman Catholic church for going against their teachings concerning baptism. The term Anabaptist itself was at the time a disparaging term.
If I go to a halloween party and see someone dressed in a pope or crusader costume I am not offended. Nor am I offended if a Catholic high school's mascot is the crusaders. I am just not going to get offended by something that does not have malicious intent behind it whether it be in bad taste or not.
Maybe I should be offended that the pope said ideological Christians are an illness. After all what do we want to do with an illness?
it probably will be less offensive in few hundred years give it the same amount of time before making that comparison i guess would be my answer.
as far as the OP...my two cents is that it depends on if its funny or not...ive seen people at parties who spent a lot of time and money on their costume to be rick ross or tupac and they had their faces painted= funny
painting your face black and putting a bandana on and saying im a gangbanger=not funny
this party in question i dont know if its racist or not, but seeing how in my 40 years no one has ever had a african party that i have heard of, i have to say its pretty stupid at a minimum and they are stupid for thinking that it would go over well either way. -
BR1986FB
I don't know about the "mooching" part but it's the same in my area.thavoice;1523175 wrote:In our area, predominantly white, if you see a black guy it is usually with a very fat white chick. Not the attractive women with a big round ass, but flat out fat. They seem to typically mooch off of those women. -
thavoice
Which part? That the black guy is smart, or an actual gentleman?TedSheckler;1522956 wrote:Oxymoron -
sleeper
I think what needs to change is to stop associating everything white people do that doesn't bend over backwards for black people as racism. Being usually the only white guy that plays basketball with black people, I get made fun of all the time for being a "white boy"(however, reality is, just because you are black does not mean you are good at basketball, it just means you are typically a little more athletic). I think its funny and I'm proud of my skin color. However, if the shoe was on the other foot(say country line dancing) can you imagine the outrage of singling out the black man? Sort of like the black panthers and the NCAAP; both highly racist organizations that don't get any negative backlash for claiming black superiority however it's the exact same thing as the KKK(white supremacy). The hypocrisy is overwhelming and needs to end on both sides.
Black people are sensitive because they are taught to be offended. Wouldn't it be better if people just understood the context that these people weren't trying to be offensive and just laugh at the perception of Africa(which can even be wrong given some African countries are fairly modern). -
sleeper
I will say I took an African history class and the professor was from Nigeria and would get upset about people thinking Africa is just a continent full of monkeys, lions, and zebras. His main goal of the class was to teach about the real Africa and some of the problems that are still plaguing the continent. I don't blame most Americans(or Australians in this case) for not knowing a lot about Africa since its African history is not taught to many people outside of electives in college. Thinking about the context of the party and it doesn't surprise me people still think of Africa as a bunch of uncivilized black people running around with elephants and monkeys; is ignorance their fault?
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Gblock
you seem more sensitive than most black people i know. and black people arent taught to be offended.sleeper;1523285 wrote:I think what needs to change is to stop associating everything white people do that doesn't bend over backwards for black people as racism. Being usually the only white guy that plays basketball with black people, I get made fun of all the time for being a "white boy"(however, reality is, just because you are black does not mean you are good at basketball, it just means you are typically a little more athletic). I think its funny and I'm proud of my skin color. However, if the shoe was on the other foot(say country line dancing) can you imagine the outrage of singling out the black man? Sort of like the black panthers and the NCAAP; both highly racist organizations that don't get any negative backlash for claiming black superiority however it's the exact same thing as the KKK(white supremacy). The hypocrisy is overwhelming and needs to end on both sides.
Black people are sensitive because they are taught to be offended. Wouldn't it be better if people just understood the context that these people weren't trying to be offensive and just laugh at the perception of Africa(which can even be wrong given some African countries are fairly modern). -
Gblocksleeper;1523285 wrote:I think what needs to change is to stop associating everything white people do that doesn't bend over backwards for black people as racism.
QUOTE]
im not sure i follow this part? like what? -
sleeper
Gblock;1523303 wrote:
It seems anytime a black person isn't treated like a royal princess and that person who isn't provided that treatment happens to have white skin; its racism. Get over yourselves. Most white people in the past 40-50 years grew up in a time where blacks aren't seen as inferior and have no concept of actual racism(most blacks too). However, we still have bullshit like Affirmative Action, preferential treatment in the work place, "hate crimes", etc. I'd like to know when black people are going to grow up and be treated as equals like everyone else instead of self-handicapping themselves as an inferior race.sleeper;1523285 wrote:I think what needs to change is to stop associating everything white people do that doesn't bend over backwards for black people as racism.
QUOTE]
im not sure i follow this part? like what? -
sleeper
They most certainly are otherwise they couldn't possibly be offended by something as silly as people painting themselves with black skin. Is black skin offensive? No, its no more offensive than people painting themselves any other color or dressing up as something they are not. Take pride in the color of your skin and stop getting so bent out of shape that someone uses it to express the word "African". In other words, grow up.Gblock;1523299 wrote:you seem more sensitive than most black people i know. and black people arent taught to be offended. -
Gblockim not sure if your level of sophistication on the subject allows me to debate you. you have a very limited and skewed view of blacks. not sure if its the area you come from or what you see on tv
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sleeper
I get it; I'm white therefore I will never understand your pain. :RpS_bored:Gblock;1523315 wrote:im not sure if your level of sophistication on the subject allows me to debate you. you have a very limited and skewed view of blacks. not sure if its the area you come from or what you see on tv
But seriously you may be right. I live in DC which has a lot of poor, stupid people who are mostly black. I definitely have thought less of black people since living here for over 2 years; however I still don't consider myself a racist and I still don't know anyone who thinks blacks are inferior. I would however be lying if I actually believe that any black person who is successful(like Obama) didn't get their from actual merit but because of the color of their skin. That perception can be eliminated once we stop with the AA bullshit and the anti-'discrimination' laws out there. Ie. Diversity at a company is complete bullshit and adds no value; really diversity at a company is just lawsuit mitigation rather that hurts minorities more than it helps. -
raiderbuck
You're comparing civil issues from the 17th century to racial tension from the 1960s. Your ancestors aren't alive. However, plenty of people who lived through the race riots and civil rights movement still walk this earth today. Those people raised children who are now in positions of influence and power. I guarantee you that if the crusades happened 50 years ago and some schmuck dressed up as a menonite to halloween party, people would be upset. Regardless if it was meant to be all in fun.majorspark;1523249 wrote:Well how long does it take then? A few hundred years? A thousand? My ancestors on my Fathers side are all amish/mennonite decedents of the Anabaptist movement. They were persecuted and killed as heretics by the Roman Catholic church for going against their teachings concerning baptism. The term Anabaptist itself was at the time a disparaging term.
If I go to a halloween party and see someone dressed in a pope or crusader costume I am not offended. Nor am I offended if a Catholic high school's mascot is the crusaders. I am just not going to get offended by something that does not have malicious intent behind it whether it be in bad taste or not.
Maybe I should be offended that the pope said ideological Christians are an illness. After all what do we want to do with an illness?
You're right. It would be a lot better if we could just laugh at it. But it's hard to laugh when you see someone dressed up as a KKK member to an African themed party. There's nothing wrong with dressing up for halloween or whatever, hell the host went as Cleopatra. But there's a big difference between dressing up for fun and just being offensive. Putting on the KKK custome can be interpreted as a deliberate attempt at being racist. What if someone went to a German themed party and sported a Nazi costume?sleeper;1523285 wrote:I think what needs to change is to stop associating everything white people do that doesn't bend over backwards for black people as racism. Being usually the only white guy that plays basketball with black people, I get made fun of all the time for being a "white boy"(however, reality is, just because you are black does not mean you are good at basketball, it just means you are typically a little more athletic). I think its funny and I'm proud of my skin color. However, if the shoe was on the other foot(say country line dancing) can you imagine the outrage of singling out the black man? Sort of like the black panthers and the NCAAP; both highly racist organizations that don't get any negative backlash for claiming black superiority however it's the exact same thing as the KKK(white supremacy). The hypocrisy is overwhelming and needs to end on both sides.
Black people are sensitive because they are taught to be offended. Wouldn't it be better if people just understood the context that these people weren't trying to be offensive and just laugh at the perception of Africa(which can even be wrong given some African countries are fairly modern).
For me, this is the most disheartening. Understanding another culture and respecting that culture is the first step in solving any kind of race issue. And I don't think ignorance is their fault per se. However, exploiting that ignorance and then trying to pass it off as "just for fun" is stupid and insensitive. It goes both ways. I wouldn't allow my son or daughter to put chalk on their face and act like rednecks, regardless of whether or not they think it's funny.sleeper;1523293 wrote:I will say I took an African history class and the professor was from Nigeria and would get upset about people thinking Africa is just a continent full of monkeys, lions, and zebras. His main goal of the class was to teach about the real Africa and some of the problems that are still plaguing the continent. I don't blame most Americans(or Australians in this case) for not knowing a lot about Africa since its African history is not taught to many people outside of electives in college. Thinking about the context of the party and it doesn't surprise me people still think of Africa as a bunch of uncivilized black people running around with elephants and monkeys; is ignorance their fault?
I think a proper way to have an African themed party would be to maybe narrow down a specific country in Africa, and then have a party based on that country's culture. That's what I would do. -
Heretic
That is something I can understand. I know for me, history in school revolved around: Europe (old times pertaining to their exploring and colonizing what became the Americas), the American Independence period (Rev War and War of 1812) and settling of Ohio (French-Indian war, The Frontiersmen) with a bit of stuff as far as American history as far as when states became part of the country and who the presidents were. But as far as any other part of the world, it wasn't until college electives that I learned much of anything about anything else that wasn't due to personal initiative.sleeper;1523293 wrote:I will say I took an African history class and the professor was from Nigeria and would get upset about people thinking Africa is just a continent full of monkeys, lions, and zebras. His main goal of the class was to teach about the real Africa and some of the problems that are still plaguing the continent. I don't blame most Americans(or Australians in this case) for not knowing a lot about Africa since its African history is not taught to many people outside of electives in college. Thinking about the context of the party and it doesn't surprise me people still think of Africa as a bunch of uncivilized black people running around with elephants and monkeys; is ignorance their fault?
So, uh, yay for our great educational system!
EDIT: Oh yeah, and it was the simplest form of education about that stuff in junior high/high school, too. Like all the negative stuff about Chris Columbus that was in that post from The Oatmeal that Justin posted on Columbus Day? I heard about a good deal of that in college during an elective class. Through school, it was all about him discovering America after a perilous journey with the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria and minor negatives like spreading disease and slavery weren't exactly ever touched upon. -
sleeper
I stated in my OP that the KKK costume is offensive because of what it represents; and that is really the only thing I could see being outraged about.You're right. It would be a lot better if we could just laugh at it. But it's hard to laugh when you see someone dressed up as a KKK member to an African themed party. There's nothing wrong with dressing up for halloween or whatever, hell the host went as Cleopatra. But there's a big difference between dressing up for fun and just being offensive. Putting on the KKK custome can be interpreted as a deliberate attempt at being racist. What if someone went to a German themed party and sported a Nazi costume?
Hence the point of this thread. I'm personally tired(and frustrated) of always having to tip toe around black people and it definitely is a wedge between my ability to interact with black people like I do with everyone else because of these issues. I'm a pretty laid back individual but I do make fun of people(including myself) and enjoy joking around. However, with black people I can't do that because clearly I don't understand the issues black people have to face and 90% of the time when I'm told an issue black people have to face its hard for me not to point out something similar that white people face. I wish black people would realize that life isn't much different between white and black and race really doesn't matter much for the most part.For me, this is the most disheartening. Understanding another culture and respecting that culture is the first step in solving any kind of race issue. And I don't think ignorance is their fault per se. However, exploiting that ignorance and then trying to pass it off as "just for fun" is stupid and insensitive. It goes both ways. I wouldn't allow my son or daughter to put chalk on their face and act like rednecks, regardless of whether or not they think it's funny.
I think a proper way to have an African themed party would be to maybe narrow down a specific country in Africa, and then have a party based on that country's culture. That's what I would do.