Nirvana's 'In Utero' Turns 20

• Mohican00

  

  thavoice;1510664 wrote:Well, the reason they probably think they are overrated is because they didnt think they are/were worth the hype that people give to them.

  because they don't like the music.
  
  That's subjective - still, you could always say why you don't like the music. Even better if one has an arguments disputing their importance to music.
• Laley23

  

  Not liking the music and calling them overrated is not the same.
  
  Not liking their music is opinion based. Calling them overrated (moreso the Beatles) is ignorant and wrong. Both bands are extremely innovative and important to the advancement of music. That is not opinion. They were the first to do stuff that changed music, and if you ask musicians/bands today most of them will say the Beatles influenced them. If not, the band who did was influenced by the Beatles.
• dlazz

  Laley23;1510713 wrote:Calling them overrated (moreso the Beatles) is ignorant and wrong.

  No, that is an opinion as well
• Mohican00

  

  Laley23;1510713 wrote:Not liking the music and calling them overrated is not the same.
  
  Not liking their music is opinion based. Calling them overrated (moreso the Beatles) is ignorant and wrong. Both bands are extremely innovative and important to the advancement of music. That is not opinion. They were the first to do stuff that changed music, and if you ask musicians/bands today most of them will say the Beatles influenced them. If not, the band who did was influenced by the Beatles.

  They are both opinion based but I do agree that calling a band overrated is taking a shot at their musical standing. It usually warrants further discussion unless you're on the OC and want to be a unique snowflake by calling a wildly popular and influential band overrated.
• dlazz

  I label The Beatles as overrated because everyone huffs and puffs about how they revolutionized Rock & Roll. Did they revolutionize music? Probably, but I don't feel that revolutionized rock music specifically. However, they definitely did give pop music a great blueprint to work by.
  
  Did you see a bunch of teen girls screaming and being stupid over the latest rock album? What about Bieber?
  
  Nirvana only gets the hype because they had a lead singer die at the peak of their success. Alice in Chains is a better "90's band" imo, but nobody gives them two looks because their lead singer died after their popularity subsided.
  
  I feel that the big push people give bands is due to the age of people who actively write and discuss these things. I'm sure I offended two age groups by calling out Nirvana and the Beatles: those who were born between 1950-1970, and those born between 1985-1995. Everyone else probably has no opinion on the matter.
  
  Again, this is my opinion but I'll sit here and wait patiently for everyone to tell me how wrong I am because they said so.
• said_aouita

  

  dlazz;1510741 wrote:
  Nirvana only gets the hype because they had a lead singer die at the peak of their success. Alice in Chains is a better "90's band" imo, but nobody gives them two looks because their lead singer died after their popularity subsided.

  That's a tough one. AIC probably has a few more hits than Nirvana. I'd call them even with Nirvana but a better group I'm not sure.
• gut

  I've always felt Cobain killing himself had a lot to do with their hype, along with the Smells Like Teen Spirit video which was very well done.
  
  But while I liked a few of Nirvana's songs, I liked Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains and Soundgarden a lot more. And all three started around the same time, or a bit sooner, as Nirvana. The influence, and genre, really precedes Nirvana...or, more directly, Nirvana was one of a handful of groups sharing the same roots and rising around the same time.
  
  I'd give Nirvana credit for the SLTS video really launching the genre and making it mainstream, at least accelerating it because it's hard to imagine those bands I mentioned and some others weren't destined for the success they had. But the idea there's this huge gap in terms of influence and accomplishment vs. the others is extreme overhype, driven mostly by all the attention Cobain's suicide received.
• Mohican00

  

  dlazz;1510741 wrote:I label The Beatles as overrated because everyone huffs and puffs about how they revolutionized Rock & Roll. Did they revolutionize music? Probably, but I don't feel that revolutionized rock music specifically. However, they definitely did give pop music a great blueprint to work by.
  
  Did you see a bunch of teen girls screaming and being stupid over the latest rock album? What about Bieber?
  
  Nirvana only gets the hype because they had a lead singer die at the peak of their success. Alice in Chains is a better "90's band" imo, but nobody gives them two looks because their lead singer died after their popularity subsided.
  
  I feel that the big push people give bands is due to the age of people who actively write and discuss these things. I'm sure I offended two age groups by calling out Nirvana and the Beatles: those who were born between 1950-1970, and those born between 1985-1995. Everyone else probably has no opinion on the matter.
  
  Again, this is my opinion but I'll sit here and wait patiently for everyone to tell me how wrong I am because they said so.

  So the songs I listened to on the White album were pop songs? Popular rock exists and you certainly can't deny that the Beatles made rock songs. And if they revolutionized music.....and happened to play rock music, wouldn't that suggest that they were in some part influential to rock music? (I'm not going to say revolutionary because - agreed - they weren't to rock).
  
  In addition, the blueprint for pop music existed before, during, and after the Beatles. I don't see them doing anything demonstrably different than R&B/Soul acts before them.
  
  And yeah, teen girls get stupid over rock acts too (awful shit like Fall Out Boy, Panic!...., 30 seconds to mars)......not to the extent of justin bieber but it happens.
  
  Nirvana gets the hype because they released 3 classic, top to bottom albums and completely destroyed hair metal and 80's synth pop. Yes I know grunge bands like Mudhoney Green River, and the Melvins existed before them, but Nevermind popularized it. As for Kurt, well yeah, his death absolutely solidified their popularity, but it's absolutely not the only reason Nirvana gets the hype.
• said_aouita

  

  [video=youtube;gPfdyycxge0][/video]
• said_aouita

  

  [video=youtube;sc9XgQy0Hk8][/video]
• said_aouita

  

  Because of the two above songs I put Nirvana slightly ahead of AIC.
  Layne is awesome but Kurt nailed it on Unplugged.
  
  e/
  Don't forget two other important members of Nirvana-
  Krist Novoselic – bass guitar
  Dave Grohl - drums
• gut

  Actually unplugged "All Apologies" is probably my favorite of theirs.
  
  For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure I owned Pearl Jam's "Ten" before I bought "Nevermind".
• dlazz

  Mohican00;1510752 wrote:So the songs I listened to on the White album were pop songs?

  The White Album didn't come out until 1968, well after the "rock and roll" sound was established. Example: 'Satisfaction' by the Stones was released in 1965
• said_aouita

  

  [video=youtube;TrpiM2oKTLI][/video]
• Laley23

  

  dlazz;1510741 wrote: Nirvana only gets the hype because they had a lead singer die at the peak of their success. Alice in Chains is a better "90's band" imo, but nobody gives them two looks because their lead singer died after their popularity subsided.

  See, I would consider 5 grunge bands as very meaningful to the direction music took in the 90s.
  
  AIC, Green River, Soundgarden, Nirvana and Pearl Jam.
  
  Nirvana probably had the biggest influence of them all, because they were the most successful and popular (Pearl Jam has an argument though). The whole grunge scene is what was influential, so to say any of those bands is overrated is what I consider to be wrong. But, I guess that depends on what we are rating them on. To be one of a few bands to change a style, I just dont see how that is overrated.
• gut

  I think Pearl Jam has a little more than just "an argument". "Ten" and "Vs." outsold Nirvana's 3 albums. And maybe just my circle, but Pearl Jam was a much bigger deal than Nirvana, at least it was played a hell of a lot more (probably because Nirvana was depressing as hell)
  
  Plus, when I hear a lot of music in the later 90's/early 00's I heard a lot more Pearl Jam and Eddie Vedder (and maybe to a lesser extent, STP, probably because they had a similar sound to PJ). Many of those groups probably weren't very good, but just talking influence of PJ.
• said_aouita

  

  Laley23;1510784 wrote:See, I would consider 5 grunge bands as very meaningful to the direction music took in the 90s.
  
  AIC, Green River, Soundgarden, Nirvana and Pearl Jam.
  
  Nirvana probably had the biggest influence of them all, because they were the most successful and popular (Pearl Jam has an argument though). The whole grunge scene is what was influential, so to say any of those bands is overrated is what I consider to be wrong. But, I guess that depends on what we are rating them on. To be one of a few bands to change a style, I just dont see how that is overrated.

  Not quite the same level but still good- Stone Temple Pilots. Wasn't Smashing Pumpkins a few years later onto the Grunge scene? Pumpkins are grunge arnt they?
• Mohican00

  

  [video=youtube;NXw8xYJM2io][/video]
• Laley23

  

  gut;1510792 wrote:I think Pearl Jam has a little more than just "an argument". "Ten" and "Vs." outsold Nirvana's 3 albums. And maybe just my circle, but Pearl Jam was a much bigger deal than Nirvana, at least it was played a hell of a lot more (probably because Nirvana was depressing as hell)
  
  Plus, when I hear a lot of music in the later 90's/early 00's I heard a lot more Pearl Jam and Eddie Vedder (and maybe to a lesser extent, STP, probably because they had a similar sound to PJ). Many of those groups probably weren't very good, but just talking influence of PJ.

  Yeah, but Pearl Jam did and still does hate mainstream and commercialism lol. They kind of take themselves out of the role.
• said_aouita

  

  Eddie Vedder is a douchebag.
• gut

  Laley23;1510799 wrote:Yeah, but Pearl Jam did and still does hate mainstream and commercialism lol. They kind of take themselves out of the role.

  Cobain considered them sellouts, correct?
  
  It is pretty funny. But that Pearl Jam had a much softer edge is why I think they've been more popular (or at least playable, which also will continually to shape the historical perspective) and influential.
  
  Soundgarden and Alice in Chains had some other issues, but Pearl Jam didn't knock anything else out of the park, either (nor did STP). So by '95 or so I think grunge was already evolving into something else, the softer PJ grunge at best. But Soundgarden and PJ were both going in somewhat new directions, so even if Cobain had stuck around I suspect Nirvana had already peaked.
• Sonofanump

  I think Pearl Jam is more overrated than Nirvana. I'd go:
  
  1) Alice in Chains
  2) Nine Inch Nails
  3) Nirvana
  4) Smashing Pumpkins
  5) Soundgarden
  6) Pearl Jam
  7) Our Lady Peace
  8) Stone Temple Pilots
  9) Pixes
  10) Live
  
  
  I did not list any derivative bands like Green River, Temple of Dog, Mother Love Bone, Mad Season, Audioslave, Foo Fighters.
• Sonofanump

  Laley23;1510784 wrote:See, I would consider 5 grunge bands as very meaningful to the direction music took in the 90s.
  
  AIC, Green River, Soundgarden, Nirvana and Pearl Jam.

  I'd take out Green River since it is a derivative and add Mudhoney or the Pixes.
• GoChiefs

  

  Announced today that Nirvana is a first time nominee for the R&R Hall of Fame.
• said_aouita

  

  Sonofanump;1510841 wrote:I think Pearl Jam is more overrated than Nirvana. I'd go:
  
  1) Alice in Chains
  2) Nine Inch Nails
  3) Nirvana
  4) Smashing Pumpkins
  5) Soundgarden
  6) Pearl Jam
  7) Our Lady Peace
  8) Stone Temple Pilots
  9) Pixes
  10) Live

  I'm a huge fan of NIN but do they belong on a grunge list? Isn't "Industrial metal" it's own category?
  If NIN is considered grunge then add Ministry to the list.
  [video=youtube;VREbXHIb5YY][/video]
  
  
  
  *Is Butthole Surfers grunge?
  [mind blown]