Ohio Chatter DEV

cruiser_96

BoatShoes;1488782 wrote:No, what makes this view exhibit A of right-wing paranoia is the idea that it is White Liberalz who've seduced black-americans into voting for dependency rather than voting for the true patriots who believe in real empowerment. Black Americans are perfectly capable of choosing for themselves what party and what candidates they think are offering proposals that are in their best interest. Encapsulated within your worldview is a pathetic view of black Americans as well as a fanatical view of white liberals.

It is additionally laughable to suggest that modern day conservatism carries the mantle of MLK who was way more socialist, if not outrigh a communist, than anybody today with influence in the American Left. I bet you want a classeless society too, eh??? lol

Furthermore, the octegenarians in the Greatest Generation parsed/divided/sectionalized groups of people as much if not more so than we do...they just did it in a negative way...instead of a positive way. Chinatown's, little Italy's, etc all existed long before the attack of the p0lit1caL c0rrect Librulz out to destory Murica. Differences based on race and national origin have long been institutionalized...It's just much more positive when we celebrate our unique cultures now than it used to be.

Heated exaggeration, suspicion and conspiratorial fantasy.

Concerning the bold sentence... Two things. #1) A good number of blacks I know vote for what is better concerning the long-term continuation of this country based on its founding principles. #2) When they do this, they have all recognized a common theme among fellow blacks they converse with; that theme is that my friends are "Uncle Toms" and "sell-outs". Unfortunately, a good number of their arguments are met with heated emotion from the other side, rather than in the calm manner in which my friends give them.

Manhattan Buckeye

BoatShoes;1488783 wrote:Race-Relations aren't worse than they were in the 80's. This is just a sampling but is a good one.

Even in the 80's less than half of Americans supported interracial marriage. "Old Racist Dinosaurs" were a lot closer to mainstream.

That is probably the most inapplicable comment in the history of Ohio Chatter.

Interracial marriage has nothing to do with the ills of inner city Black society.

HitsRus

It is additionally laughable to suggest that modern day conservatism carries the mantle of MLK who was way more socialist, if not outrigh a communist, than anybody today with influence in the American Left. I bet you want a classeless society too, eh??? lol

Did I say that modern conservatism carries King's "mantle"???

No...I said simply that liberalism doesn't either....in fact quite the opposite.

My turn to lulz on the china town and little Italy comment: Immigrants to the country gravitated to areas where other immigrant of the same culture settled for comfort and familiarity....there was nothing 'government' or institutionalization about it.

Black Americans are perfectly capable of choosing for themselves what party and what candidates they think are offering proposals that are in their best interest.

You bet they are...they just need to get both sides of the story. So be sure that black conservatives get a place at the NAACP convention. A number of black conservatives say they were shut out.

Furthermore, the octegenarians in the Greatest Generation parsed/divided/sectionalized groups of people as much if not more so than we do...they just did it in a negative way...instead of a positive way. Chinatown's, little Italy's, etc all existed long before the attack of the p0lit1caL c0rrect Librulz out to destory Murica. Differences based on race and national origin have long been institutionalized...It's just much more positive when we celebrate our unique cultures now than it used to be.

Props for admitting and demonstrating your elitism.

BoatShoes

cruiser_96;1488797 wrote:Concerning the bold sentence... Two things. #1) A good number of blacks I know vote for what is better concerning the long-term continuation of this country based on its founding principles. #2) When they do this, they have all recognized a common theme among fellow blacks they converse with; that theme is that my friends are "Uncle Toms" and "sell-outs". Unfortunately, a good number of their arguments are met with heated emotion from the other side, rather than in the calm manner in which my friends give them.

Ok, even if we accept what you say is true...how is reflective on white liberals? I say that because the meme perpetrated by HitsRus on this thread...and by conservatives elsewhere that liberals ostracize blacks who align with conservatism. This is a black thing, not a liberal/conservative thing. It's like a class consciousness more than anything else. Apparently blacks as a whole have found enough solidarity with contemporary liberalism that it's some kind of affront to a class interest when an individual within their class chooses differently. To me, it's not unlike worker class consciousness and animosity that foments when an individual worker sides with, say, the capitalist class or management or whatever.

I'm just guessing. As a white liberal I feel none of that animosity towards a black conservative that you're speaking of. It's a race/class consciousness thing and not a liberal/conservative thing in my humble opinion.

BoatShoes

Manhattan Buckeye;1488811 wrote:That is probably the most inapplicable comment in the history of Ohio Chatter.

Interracial marriage has nothing to do with the ills of inner city Black society.

The comment is entirely applicable to the statement you made in the post that I quoted. If you intended to focus solely on inner-city black society you should have chosen your words more carefully.

This is what you said.

FIFY. The truth is that racial relations have deteriorated in the last 30 years or so, and especially in the last few years. Why?

In fact, there are few statistics more relevant to race-relations than the number of people who approve of interracial relations.

I wouldn't have posted that if you would've written "the truth is that inner city black society has deteriorated in the last 30 years", etc.

Manhattan Buckeye

"In fact, there are few statistics more relevant to race-relations than the number of people who approve of interracial relations."

I can think of one important one....self-segregation. I'm only married to one woman, I have to live around hundreds of neighbors. We lived in a city where 99% of the middle-school and up in public schools are Black. If you are White, Asian or Hispanic (there weren't many) you cannot send your kids to public schools beyond 2 elementary schools.

BoatShoes

HitsRus;1488812 wrote:Did I say that modern conservatism carries King's "mantle"???

No...I said simply that liberalism doesn't either....in fact quite the opposite.

My turn to lulz on the china town and little Italy comment: Immigrants to the country gravitated to areas where other immigrant of the same culture settled for comfort and familiarity....there was nothing 'government' or institutionalization about it.

You bet they are...they just need to get both sides of the story. So be sure that black conservatives get a place at the NAACP convention. A number of black conservatives say they were shut out.

Props for admitting and demonstrating your elitism.

You're acting like it was "government" that has done it today when that is never the case, as you acknowledge. Because the African-American community asserted themselves and rejected the term "Negro" to refer to themselves and chose "African-American" had no influence from government, white-liberals or elites other than to respect what the way in which they wanted to be referred.

If black conservatives are shut out of the NAACP that has nothing to do with liberalism or white liberal elites towering over their black voters or whatever. I'm sure that the UAW is less than receptive of corporate directors, etc. It's a class consciousness thing.

There is nothing that could infer a sense of elitism from the last paragraph you quoted. You and all kinds of conservatives act like different groups identifying and forming solidarity along group lines is a new product of elitist liberalism and this is simply false. In fact it's better than it used to be. To my grandfather everybody was a Jew X, a Mic Y, Wop Z, N***** this, etc. But, man...now that we call blacks "African-Americans" when referring to them as a group instead of "Negroes" all hell has broken loose and teh LibruLz are separating us into groups and ruining Murica. :thumbdown:

BoatShoes

Manhattan Buckeye;1489016 wrote:"In fact, there are few statistics more relevant to race-relations than the number of people who approve of interracial relations."

I can think of one important one....self-segregation. I'm only married to one woman, I have to live around hundreds of neighbors. We lived in a city where 99% of the middle-school and up in public schools are Black. If you are White, Asian or Hispanic (there weren't many) you cannot send your kids to public schools beyond 2 elementary schools.

Forgive me, but I don't quite understand what you're getting at here. What is the relevance of you saying you're married to one woman and living around hundreds of neighbors??? Why could you not send your kids to beyond 2 elementary schools??? Are you saying that blacks purposefully and willingly choose to self-segregate into inner cities and inner ring suburbs???

Manhattan Buckeye

An appropriate article:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/latest-news/report-schools-segregation-by-race-income-worsening/article_a05050c1-9ea8-5ebd-b00a-239aab565e7f.html

We are definitely going in the wrong direction and half-assed government ideas like busing killed a lot of schools. 30 years ago one could live in Richmond's West End and send their kids to Thomas Jefferson and be in a racially diverse school. Now it is impossible. People that choose to live in the city limits send their kids to private schools.

Manhattan Buckeye

"What is the relevance of you saying you're married to one woman and living around hundreds of neighbors???"

Because someone can say that they support interracial marriage because it doesn't affect them, but doesn't mean they would choose to live around people of other races. One affects a person, the other doesn't. It is completely irrelevant to race relations.

BoatShoes

Manhattan Buckeye;1489025 wrote:"What is the relevance of you saying you're married to one woman and living around hundreds of neighbors???"

Because someone can say that they support interracial marriage because it doesn't affect them, but doesn't mean they would choose to live around people of other races. One affects a person, the other doesn't. It is completely irrelevant to race relations.

I think you're wrong. People also don't choose to live in poor neighborhoods. Shaker Heights is a wealthier enclave incorporated off from Euclid and East Cleveland. It has more white Residents but they regularly interract with the black folks from the poorer municipalities. A lot of white folks from Shaker will ride the same train into downtown as poorer black folks. Also, Shaker Heights has absorbed wealthier black families. The point is that a white kid and black kid meeting and getting together in Shaker Heights is way more acceptable than it used to be. Seeing a mixed couple holding hands doesn't cause the gasps it used to.

Because you're a rich white guy who doesn't want to live in a poor neighborhood and you want to send your kids to expensive private schools is more informative on class issues today than race relations IMHO. I agree that there are still race-relations problems but I think it's wrong to say they aren't better than 30 years ago when all of the white flight was still happening in the first place.

cruiser_96

BoatShoes;1489013 wrote:Ok, even if we accept what you say is true...how is reflective on white liberals? I say that because the meme perpetrated by HitsRus on this thread...and by conservatives elsewhere that liberals ostracize blacks who align with conservatism. This is a black thing, not a liberal/conservative thing. It's like a class consciousness more than anything else. Apparently blacks as a whole have found enough solidarity with contemporary liberalism that it's some kind of affront to a class interest when an individual within their class chooses differently. To me, it's not unlike worker class consciousness and animosity that foments when an individual worker sides with, say, the capitalist class or management or whatever.

I'm just guessing. As a white liberal I feel none of that animosity towards a black conservative that you're speaking of. It's a race/class consciousness thing and not a liberal/conservative thing in my humble opinion.

"Accept it as it is true"?????? Oh it's true! As a matter of fact when sitting with my friends, a discussion began between us and a liberal who happened to be black. My (a white man) question was "Is it possible to disagree with this president's policies and not be a racist?" Dead serious the guy said "No." What am I to do with that!?!?!

Moreover, to the underlined portion, quite simply, it is the white liberal who paints me an just about every other white conservative as a racist. And they do this in print, on the radio, and on TV. They do so with no escape, except to those outlets they simultaneously demonize!!!

dlazz

Most of my family is racist. I usually just sit quietly while they say whatever. However, none of my immediate family went to college and I feel there is a direct correlation between racism/education attainment. The same can probably be said for belief in religion and education attainment as well.

Hope this helps.

cruiser_96

Actual quote from a persistent "opposing view" from another forum...

noonereal;5542722 wrote:You left off that he is black and President, the real issue for the right.

That is not the case! I disliked Clinton more than Obama, and I dislike them both a slight bit more than G.W. Bush. It has nothing to do with race, but rather the living out or denying of principles that have and will stand the test of time.

BoatShoes

cruiser_96;1489060 wrote:"Accept it as it is true"?????? Oh it's true! As a matter of fact when sitting with my friends, a discussion began between us and a liberal who happened to be black. My (a white man) question was "Is it possible to disagree with this president's policies and not be a racist?" Dead serious the guy said "No." What am I to do with that!?!?!

Moreover, to the underlined portion, quite simply, it is the white liberal who paints me an just about every other white conservative as a racist. And they do this in print, on the radio, and on TV. They do so with no escape, except to those outlets they simultaneously demonize!!!

You're making the same kind of hasty, overbroad generalization that the liberal in your story did/does.

cruiser_96

In an effort to not make the generalization... Do you, BoatShoes, believe it is possible to be a black conservative and not be seen as an Uncle Tom? And, am I able to disagree with this president and not be seen as a racist?

Rotinaj

Anyone who thinks someone is racist just for disagreeing with this President is a moron, no other way to put it. Just simply walk away from the conversation.

Side note- This post isn't me claiming I agree or disagree with this president, just commenting on "am I able to disagree with this president and not be seen as a racist?"

cruiser_96

Rotinaj;1489447 wrote:Anyone who thinks someone is racist just for disagreeing with this President is a moron, no other way to put it. Just simply walk away from the conversation.

Side note- This post isn't me claiming I agree or disagree with this president, just commenting on "am I able to disagree with this president and not be seen as a racist?"

I'm not sure how to type this, but... What a racist comment!!!

Heretic

cruiser_96;1489417 wrote:In an effort to not make the generalization... Do you, BoatShoes, believe it is possible to be a black conservative and not be seen as an Uncle Tom? And, am I able to disagree with this president and not be seen as a racist?

Rotinaj;1489447 wrote:Anyone who thinks someone is racist just for disagreeing with this President is a moron, no other way to put it. Just simply walk away from the conversation.

What Rotinaj said for part two of your question and you could essentially go the same route for part 1. While there's no doubt there are people in this country who were pre-disposed against Obama based on his skin color, those people are morons, just like the people who would think that a black conservative is an uncle tom or that anyone against Obama's policies is being racist.

Well, with the "black con is U.C." part, moron might be the wrong word, as politard might fit better, since I can see a lot of those types being of the "reasonably intelligent" level, but blinded by their particular beliefs to where they look at people with opposing beliefs as "THE ENEMY" and wind up coming across as nutjobs who look like parodies of their supposed beliefs (while QuakerOats is right-wing...at least allegedly, to me he seems like a parody account designed to make conservatives look insane, but whatever...he's as good an example of this on the site, at least since Gibby doesn't come around so much nowadays) simply because they're too blind to see the forest for all the trees (or whatever similar cliche you prefer).

Belly35

dlazz;1489086 wrote:Most of my family is racist. I usually just sit quietly while they say whatever. However, none of my immediate family went to college and I feel there is a direct correlation between racism/education attainment. The same can probably be said for belief in religion and education attainment as well.

Hope this helps.

Racist let see if you're lazy, arrogant, stupid (lacking common sense) worthless in supporting of your kids, family or society, taker and vengeance of others prosperity, expecting society to be your provider, murderer, rapist, terrorist, hater of America, religion base on killing other religion and free society and of Sepia in color... Yes or More like discussed with the individual ..is that racist

dlazz

Belly35;1490085 wrote:Racist let see if you're lazy, arrogant, stupid (lacking common sense) worthless in supporting of your kids, family or society, taker and vengeance of others prosperity, expecting society to be your provider, murderer, rapist, terrorist, hater of America, religion base on killing other religion and free society and of Sepia in color... Yes or More like discussed with the individual ..is that racist

I read this three times and still have no idea what you're trying to say.

Hope this helps.

BoatShoes

cruiser_96;1489417 wrote:In an effort to not make the generalization... Do you, BoatShoes, believe it is possible to be a black conservative and not be seen as an Uncle Tom? And, am I able to disagree with this president and not be seen as a racist?

Absolutely on both counts. I think a large majority of conservatives are not racists. As a white contemporary liberal I don't consider black conservatives "Uncle Tom's"

However, I think it is true that there does seem to be a fair amount of black liberals who look negatively at black conservatives...i.e. Samuel Jackson saying he was trying to channel Clarence Thomas when he played the favored slave of Dicaprio's character in Django.

I think this is a race/class consciousness type of thing....not unlike worker consciousness resentment towards management, etc. as opposed to a liberal/conservative thing. But that's just conjecture on my part.

BoatShoes

Heretic;1489465 wrote:What Rotinaj said for part two of your question and you could essentially go the same route for part 1. While there's no doubt there are people in this country who were pre-disposed against Obama based on his skin color, those people are morons, just like the people who would think that a black conservative is an uncle tom or that anyone against Obama's policies is being racist.

Well, with the "black con is U.C." part, moron might be the wrong word, as politard might fit better, since I can see a lot of those types being of the "reasonably intelligent" level, but blinded by their particular beliefs to where they look at people with opposing beliefs as "THE ENEMY" and wind up coming across as nutjobs who look like parodies of their supposed beliefs (while QuakerOats is right-wing...at least allegedly, to me he seems like a parody account designed to make conservatives look insane, but whatever...he's as good an example of this on the site, at least since Gibby doesn't come around so much nowadays) simply because they're too blind to see the forest for all the trees (or whatever similar cliche you prefer).

I would be very impressed if QuakerOats is a parody account because he is certainly committed.