Student Loans

• like_that

  

  O-Trap;1284645 wrote:Well then give the reps I sent to your dad.
  
  I'd like to do that for my kids as well. Thankfully, my wife's parents did it for her, but it was contingent on her grades. Any class below a B- meant she had to pay them back for that class. Thankfully, only two classes ended up under B-, so she wrote checks from summer jobs and graduated debt-free.

  Yeah, my parents were on top of me from k-12 when it came to my grades. Anything below a B was unacceptable. They sure as hell wouldn't have sent me to school or given me the money if I was a fuck off.
  

  fan_from_texas;1284652 wrote:We're doing that with our kids. It's roughly $500/mo. per child after-tax for 18 years to be pretty comfortable with covering their college expenses. Expensive.

  I am sure it wasn't that bad for my father when I was born lol, but I can tell you that your children will be grateful for it once they get out of college and notice how most of their friends are still going through hell to pay off their loans. You will def make their lives easier. It sure has allowed me to live pretty comfortably early in my young career.
• OQB

  

  Pick6;1284686 wrote:I feel bad for all the art majors.

  
  That's the problem!! Colleges offering degrees for jobs that pay little to nothing....hell you have to have a degree these days to get a $12/hour job....just crazy.
• O-Trap

  

  My biggest beef on that front is not at the college or professional level, or even the lender level. It's at the high school level. Guideance councelors and teachers telling kids to go to school to learn to do something "they want to do."
  
  Don't push them in a direction that is most likely going to impoverish them later in life. Give them ALL the information, and push them to be successful in whatever major they choose.
• sleeper

  

  Pick6;1284686 wrote:Ill be ~45k in debt after I graduate. I fall into the shittiest category possible. Middle class, no help from the family. I dont even get enough in federal loans to cover tuition. Had to pay 2300 out of pocket this semester, and will have to do the same next semester. Probably will have to take out another private loan. 21 years old, fully independent from parents, and I get 0 grants, and not enough federal loans to cover just tuition. System is fucked up. Ill be alright, though. I feel bad for all the art majors.

  And let me guess, you are white.
• OSH

  

  I have around $70,000. I finished up in 2007. Not much has been paid into it since.
  
  I have one Master's that was free, basically. And I'm completing another one that is free. So, I look at that $70,000 is three degrees worth. I should be alright...hopefully. One of these days when I am done with classes, I'll start paying it off.
  
  Luckily, my wife has $0. So, paying just mine won't be nearly as bad as paying off two. She's got a job and we are banking everything right now -- minus the dumb spending we do at times. I hope to get mine paid off in less than 5 years once we both have jobs. I think it's doable.
• fan_from_texas

  O-Trap;1284699 wrote:My biggest beef on that front is not at the college or professional level, or even the lender level. It's at the high school level. Guideance councelors and teachers telling kids to go to school to learn to do something "they want to do."
  
  Don't push them in a direction that is most likely going to impoverish them later in life. Give them ALL the information, and push them to be successful in whatever major they choose.

  QFT
• ernest_t_bass

  

  I save $25/pay for each child. They'll have roughly $10K when they graduate HS. That's plenty, in my opinion. I know that my parents helped what they could, and I had to go into debt some. I had to work construction in the summer, save up all my money, then hand it over to dad at the end of the summer.
  
  If my kids go into debt, they go into debt. That's life. What will be most important to me is that they understand WHAT they are getting into, and if it is worth the debt. If they go to OU to major in journalism, it's obviously not worth any amount of debt.
• O-Trap

  

  ernest_t_bass;1284718 wrote:If they go to OU to major in journalism, it's obviously not worth any amount of debt.

  You know, I don't completely agree with the perception of an objective value assessment on such an education. Educations are "worth" whatever someone who receives them thinks they are, provided that it is not just a means to an end (ei, just to get a job that pays well).
  
  My degree has never had anything to do with my profession, but I believe it was worth every penny. However, I was never under the impression that I'd be able to graduate, get a job in that field, and live successfully that way. I knew full-well that my focus and area of study didn't amount to getting paid well at all, and so I prepared to get into a field that didn't require education in that field.
• sleeper

  

  I won't be saving any money for my future children. I never got any parental assistance and had to work my way through high school and college to pay bills. They can do the same.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  O-Trap;1284723 wrote:You know, I don't completely agree with the perception of an objective value assessment on such an education. Educations are "worth" whatever someone who receives them thinks they are, provided that it is not just a means to an end (ei, just to get a job that pays well).
  
  My degree has never had anything to do with my profession, but I believe it was worth every penny. However, I was never under the impression that I'd be able to graduate, get a job in that field, and live successfully that way. I knew full-well that my focus and area of study didn't amount to getting paid well at all, and so I prepared to get into a field that didn't require education in that field.

  If my child wants to go to a 4-year private school, to obtain a degree which they could receive a lot cheaper at another school, then I will step in and make sure they are properly educated. I will push hard for them to go and get an associates degree first, maybe at a 2-year school, save a ton, and have something to fall back on.
• gorocks99

  

  I will put TVs in my kids rooms. Hence, they will not go to college. Boom, problem solved.
• gut

  O-Trap;1284723 wrote:You know, I don't completely agree with the perception of an objective value assessment on such an education. Educations are "worth" whatever someone who receives them thinks they are, provided that it is not just a means to an end (ei, just to get a job that pays well).

  100% true. However, the mortgage fraud cases is a good parallel in that you have a large number of people incapable and/or unwilling to properly assess those values.
  
  I'm not going to call it fraud, but there's been a massive disservice to graduating high school and college students. I don't think there's nearly enough honesty in pushing people toward trades as opposed to college. And there's nothing wrong with doing it, but it's not "pc" in a society that doesn't keep score in little league games and refuses to set realistic expectations for kids. Many good, honest jobs in skilled trades - and there's actually a shortage of those workers. But instead we push and enable these kids to struggle thru 5-6 years of college and finally graduate with a useless degree and a mountain of debt. Just look at the vilification of Romney and Santorum for even suggesting college might not be for everyone.
• Crimson streak

  

  BR1986FB;1284675 wrote:Unfortunately, he now has "real world debt" (car loans, apartment rent, etc) which is why he'd hoped to do it online. Kid spent 5 years in college and he's empty handed.
  
  On the one hand, I'd really like to see him get it and become a teacher but on the other hand, it kinda serves him right for ****ing around drinking with his frat "boys" and chasing ass. He knows he ****ed up. Life lessons, I guess....

  
  I know how it fells trust me lol. I'm hoping to get into pnc bank (cousin is senior vp) and he's trying to get them to pay for my schooling to finish my degree where I can become assistant branch manager for a year or 2 and then take over as a branch manager, and work my way up etc. my brother right now is working full time to pay his bills and is taking night classes to finish. I would suggest he does that. It might suck for 4-6 months but he will be thankful once he gets that degree.
• O-Trap

  

  ernest_t_bass;1284730 wrote:If my child wants to go to a 4-year private school, to obtain a degree which they could receive a lot cheaper at another school, then I will step in and make sure they are properly educated. I will push hard for them to go and get an associates degree first, maybe at a 2-year school, save a ton, and have something to fall back on.

  
  See, I like your approach. Get something that you can fall back on, and then allow the kid to pursue their education as they see fit, whether studying business or marine biology.
  

  gut;1284733 wrote:100% true. However, the mortgage fraud cases is a good parallel in that you have a large number of people incapable and/or unwilling to properly assess those values.
  
  I'm not going to call it fraud, but there's been a massive disservice to graduating high school and college students. I don't think there's nearly enough honesty in pushing people toward trades as opposed to college. And there's nothing wrong with doing it, but it's not "pc" in a society that doesn't keep score in little league games and refuses to set realistic expectations for kids. Many good, honest jobs in skilled trades - and there's actually a shortage of those workers. But instead we push and enable these kids to struggle thru 5-6 years of college and finally graduate with a useless degree and a mountain of debt. Just look at the vilification of Romney and Santorum for even suggesting college might not be for everyone.

  I agree. I honestly wish that the trade schools in this country were more diverse. If you pursued education beyond high school because you wanted to get a better job, you went to a trade school. If you wanted to become a well-rounded citizen and grow your knowledge of the world in addition to being equipped for a career, then you went to a university.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  O-Trap;1284742 wrote:See, I like your approach. Get something that you can fall back on, and then allow the kid to pursue their education as they see fit, whether studying business or marine biology.

  I try to educate students on this all the time. Not necessarily b/c of the cost, which is a huge benefit, but because of other hidden benefits. What I tell students is, "It's like a save point in a video game. You always have that to fall back on. You may go two years to a 4-year school, decide you hate college, and have nothing to show for it besides some debt and credits. The same scenario at a 2-year school... an associates and less debt."
  
  Also, I had a buddy in college who went and got his 2-year criminal justice dregree, and got right into the criminal justice program at BGSU because of it. He said that there were some of his classmates who were struggling to get into the program, had the same amount of schooling as him, but still had to jump through some more hoops b/f they could get in.
• OSH

  

  I don't like the 2-year school option. I honestly don't. I mean, if you want to save money, work, and do this or that...sure, go for it.
  
  To me, there's nothing like the 4-year, dorm-living, relationship-making style that comes with undergraduate studies. There isn't a price tag for that. A 2-year degree can be valuable, no doubt about that. You can do things with it, no doubt about that. But, there are a lot of 4-year schools who don't give money to 2-year students. There's no investment in a 2-year student at a 4-year school. This is especially true at private schools.
  
  Me, I am 100% for the reformation of how we do education in the United States. It won't be done, but there needs to be less emphasis on sitting in a classroom for 6-10 hours. Read this book. Write about that book. Do these math problems. You have 5 hours of homework every night. There are so many other ways to do things. There are more functional ways to do education. Like trade schools. Like apprenticeships. Internships. Real life application to the educational processes. It needs to be done. It needs to be done in high school and up. I'm not saying phase the "read and write" method completely out, there just needs to be more done with what we have.
  
  There is value in education if these steps are taken. I believe it can happen at those private schools (especially smaller ones) quicker than anywhere else. If they do it, then they have a niche in the market that large public schools need to adapt to. These higher education institutions need to do a better job of preparing people for the world.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  OSH;1284764 wrote:I don't like the 2-year school option. I honestly don't. I mean, if you want to save money, work, and do this or that...sure, go for it.
  
  To me, there's nothing like the 4-year, dorm-living, relationship-making style that comes with undergraduate studies. There isn't a price tag for that. A 2-year degree can be valuable, no doubt about that. You can do things with it, no doubt about that. But, there are a lot of 4-year schools who don't give money to 2-year students. There's no investment in a 2-year student at a 4-year school. This is especially true at private schools.
  
  Me, I am 100% for the reformation of how we do education in the United States. It won't be done, but there needs to be less emphasis on sitting in a classroom for 6-10 hours. Read this book. Write about that book. Do these math problems. You have 5 hours of homework every night. There are so many other ways to do things. There are more functional ways to do education. Like trade schools. Like apprenticeships. Internships. Real life application to the educational processes. It needs to be done. It needs to be done in high school and up. I'm not saying phase the "read and write" method completely out, there just needs to be more done with what we have.
  
  There is value in education if these steps are taken. I believe it can happen at those private schools (especially smaller ones) quicker than anywhere else. If they do it, then they have a niche in the market that large public schools need to adapt to. These higher education institutions need to do a better job of preparing people for the world.

  LOL. My buddy who went the two-year route lived with his 4-year college going buddies his entire time. There are ways around the 4-year dorm life, blah, blah, blah. You can still live the college life and not spend out your ass on tuition.
• gut

  I kind of think an associate's degree is a waste. I haven't seen too many job postings that will take a 2-yr degree. IMO they pretty much get grouped with high school grads in the "non-4yr degree" pool.
  
  Or maybe not - I don't have the data.
  
  I think a college degree is mostly a signal that someone takes their future seriously and is of at least average intelligence (relatively speaking). People who want better candidates are going to look at GPA and school more. Many of the rest are just looking for a degree and will train you anyway, making wasting time & money spinning your wheels on the 6-yr "journey" somewhat of a disaster that schools deserve criticism for.
• sleeper

  

  Yeah I would never get an associates.
• gut

  On a related note, how is failing a student or having a student drop (presumably to protect gpa among other reasons) productive? Just a waste of time & money toward finishing, and does it really matter if you fail a student or give them a 'D' (but they get credit)? It's not like I'm going to hire a 'D' student, so failing them only costs them more money.
• gut

  http://education-portal.com/articles/How_Much_More_Do_College_Graduates_Earn_Than_Non-College_Graduates.html
  
  Hmmm, well I guess an Associate degree has some value. According to this, it's a little better than college with no degree, and roughly in-between high school and 4-yr degrees.
• Fab1b

  

  My buddy just got a surprise from his girl...........they have been dating for about 2 yrs now, known her for about 5 and in that time I don't recall her going to school. Guess a few years ago she took about 20g's in loans out and when we all got back from vacation together last week the bill collectors came calling for their 20g's. She had been avoiding them and he didn't know. I was like wow bro that sucks! Guess they set up a payment plan but he is planning on proposing and I'm like you might want to make sure there are no more secrets hiding LOL!
• gut

  I'd have her file bankruptcy before getting married. Like if someone was WAYYYY underwater on their house, just walk away. Takes like 7 years to recover from something like that, but if the other has the house and everything else in order you can weather that waiting period and not get crushed under that mountain of debt.
  
  Some people might think that lacks integrity, but I figure businesses do it all the time. Bankruptcy law is there for a reason - use it when it makes sense for you.
• I Wear Pants

  gut;1284779 wrote:I kind of think an associate's degree is a waste. I haven't seen too many job postings that will take a 2-yr degree. IMO they pretty much get grouped with high school grads in the "non-4yr degree" pool.
  
  Or maybe not - I don't have the data.
  
  I think a college degree is mostly a signal that someone takes their future seriously and is of at least average intelligence (relatively speaking). People who want better candidates are going to look at GPA and school more. Many of the rest are just looking for a degree and will train you anyway, making wasting time & money spinning your wheels on the 6-yr "journey" somewhat of a disaster that schools deserve criticism for.

  sleeper;1284780 wrote:Yeah I would never get an associates.

  I would never get one myself but actually the stats I've seen (read a few articles last week for a class) showed that associates are actually make financial sense, especially when you consider many people will not finish a bachelors but could have done enough for an associates.
  
  As for the student loans...I don't want to think about it.
• LJ

  

  I have no debt. Wife has about 185k