Can everyone finally admit I was right all along about Billy Donovan?

• SportsAndLady

  

  The past few years I have gotten in some heated debates with Florida fans, and even a some neutral fans about my opinion on Billy Donovan.
  
  The guy isn't that great of a coach.
  
  When people throw his name out there in a top 5 coaches list, I want to jam needles in my eyeballs.
  
  This year has basically solidified my argument. The SEC the last 3 years has been BAD, and he hasn't been able to get his team in the tourney the first 2 of those years (and bad losses in the NIT tourney, as well) and this year he has Florida on the bubble needing a few SEC tourney wins to feel a bit comfortable.
  
  You take out his 2 national titles, which was basically because of a really good recruiting class, the guy has a Final Four and a bunch of missed NCAA tournament appearances.
  
  Top 5 coach my ass.
• Laley23

  

  Top 5 no. But bad coach....I dont know.
  
  Three Final Fours
  Two National Titles
  
  ...in what, 15 years?
  
  
  Yes, he has WAY to many down years to be considered elite. But he has the resume that shows he is still a pretty good coach. He can recruit, but it seems only certain players evolve under him. Others dont seem to take to him and dont improve.
  
  I think he would benefit by shoring up his rotation. To many guys get too many minutes (at least it seems that way when I watch them). His best players need to play more and for longer stretches.
• SportsAndLady

  

  I am in no way saying he is a bad coach, just that he is not an elite coach, and most definitely not top 5 like so many have him on their lists.
  
  Yes, 3 final fours and 2 titles sounds great...but 4 of the 5 is from one recruiting class.
• Laley23

  

  SportsAndLady wrote: I am in no way saying he is a bad coach, just that he is not an elite coach, and most definitely not top 5 like so many have him on their lists.
  
  Yes, 3 final fours and 2 titles sounds great...but 4 of the 5 is from one recruiting class.

  It certainly is more impressive when a coach takes multiple classes to FF, but you can make the argument that he had a fantastic eye for the talent and development of guys most didnt see as great players.
  
  Im with you though. I dont get the Top 5 talk. I could see the argument after the 06 title...however you cant be Top 5 when you follow that up with the 3 years he has had.
• centralbucksfan

  I was never high on him either. But had to give him his kudos for winning two title. A LOT of coaches have great players and NEVER go on to win national title. The most overhyped coach in college right now is Cal...he has had some great teams/great players, never won a title.
  So Donovan certainly got it done, and twice.
  
  That being said...you are right about the past three years..he has had some top notch recruiting classes on top of that. Watching them this season...they quite frankly are not that good. He has some pieces there...but they really seem undisciplined at times.
  
  Great coach...no. But you can't say he is bad with what he has done.
• SportsAndLady

  

  centralbucksfan wrote:But you can't say he is bad with what he has done.

  And no one is.
• jpake1

  

  Since he isn't top 5, then who are the top 5 coaches in your IMO?
• Laley23

  

  Off the top of my head, in no order.
  
  K
  Williams
  Izzo
  Self
  Boeheim
• SportsAndLady

  

  jpake1 wrote: Since he isn't top 5, then who are the top 5 coaches in your IMO?

  in your in my opinion?
  lol
  
  
  kiddin..
  
  My top 5 would be
  Roy Williams
  Bill Self
  Tom Izzo
  Ben Howland
  Coach K
  
  Had Boeheim in there, then switched him and Howland at the last second.
• CinciX12

  

  Ben Howland has pretty much fallen flat on his face this year, but in his defense so did the rest of the Pac 10.
• Laley23

  

  Ill add on some others I would put up there.
  
  Pitino
  Howland
  Calhoun (has the same issue as Donovan with down years, but not to the same extent, and has a bette resume)
• Laley23

  

  CinciX12 wrote: Ben Howland has pretty much fallen flat on his face this year, but in his defense so did the rest of the Pac 10.

  Yeah, but he built Pitt and took a team to 3 straight FF. One down year is fine. When he has a bunch in a row like Florida its when you start to question him.
• Azubuike24

  

  Outside of a run from 1992-1997 at Kentucky, Rick Pitino has been pretty average since. He does have a Final Four and 2 Elite 8's at Louisville, but Tubby Smith had a better resume (and was fired) at Kentucky. IMO, Pitino is a very good coach, but he isn't on the level he once was. He can still recruit very well, but another alarming stat is look at the number of NBA players he has developed from Louisville...
  
  Not very many. Francisco Garcia, Terrance Williams and Earl Clark...that's it.
• CinciX12

  

  Laley23 wrote:

  CinciX12 wrote: Ben Howland has pretty much fallen flat on his face this year, but in his defense so did the rest of the Pac 10.

  Yeah, but he built Pitt and took a team to 3 straight FF. One down year is fine. When he has a bunch in a row like Florida its when you start to question him.

  Don't get me wrong, he is an awesome coach.
  
  He has 2 really good recruits coming in that will help him next season in Smith and Lamb.
  
  I just got on ESPN though to check out their recruiting and they signed a guy with a scouts grade of 40? Lazeric Jones from John A. Logan Community College in IL? Seems a little strange to me a guy like that could play for UCLA.
• Azubuike24

  

  40 means they aren't evaluated yet.
• Laley23

  

  Azubuike24 wrote: Outside of a run from 1992-1997 at Kentucky, Rick Pitino has been pretty average since. He does have a Final Four and 2 Elite 8's at Louisville, but Tubby Smith had a better resume (and was fired) at Kentucky. IMO, Pitino is a very good coach, but he isn't on the level he once was. He can still recruit very well, but another alarming stat is look at the number of NBA players he has developed from Louisville...
  
  Not very many. Francisco Garcia, Terrance Williams and Earl Clark...that's it.

  He has definitely lost a step. But FF with 3 teams. A GREAT run at Kentucky. His resume just trumps what Donovan has at Florida. The argument can be made his success hasnt been recent enough to be considered ahead of Donovan, but I disagree with it.
  
  
  It should be noted how FEW coaches are able to build dynasties in college bball anymore. Only 2 teams have won back to back titles since UCLA days. So Donovan certainly deserves a lot of credit for that.
  
  Duke in 91 and 92
  Florida in 06 and 07
• CinciX12

  

  Azubuike24 wrote: 40 means they aren't evaluated yet.

  Learn something new everyday.
• reclegend22

  

  Coach K
  Bill Self
  Tom Izzo
  Roy Williams
  Bo Ryan
  
  I can't put Calhoun or Boeheim on this list because both have taken their dates to the "other" dance too many times over the course of their careers, during their supposed coaching primes. Calhoun has been in the NIT on three occasions since '97 and missed everything all together in '07. Boeheim has been to the NIT four times since 1997. That's an amazing number to me. Since his 2003 NCAA title, Syracuse has played in two NITs, and they were in consecutive years. He's obviously a very good coach, but way too inconsistent to be considered top five.
  
  As far as the best in the business, I think that's between K, Izzo and Self. I think Self is really making a claim for that title and, if he wins it all again this season, it will be hard to argue against him. K is by far one of the most consistent and has been the best in the business for a quarter century (with only Bob Knight, Dean Smith and Rick Pitino at certain stretches sharing his level of greatness), but needs to get back to the Final Four this season or next to keep that title, IMO.
• trackandccrunner

  centralbucksfan wrote: I was never high on him either. But had to give him his kudos for winning two title. A LOT of coaches have great players and NEVER go on to win national title. The most overhyped coach in college right now is Cal...he has had some great teams/great players, never won a title.

  So you mean Cal is like Thad Matta?
  
  I remember back when people were saying Donovan was top 5 they also had Matta in there as well. Sure Matta still has been good but I always laughed when they said he was top 5 as well.
  
  Donovan's a good coach but I just don't see him having the success he had in the last decade.
• CinciX12

  

  trackandccrunner wrote:

  centralbucksfan wrote: I was never high on him either. But had to give him his kudos for winning two title. A LOT of coaches have great players and NEVER go on to win national title. The most overhyped coach in college right now is Cal...he has had some great teams/great players, never won a title.

  So you mean Cal is like Thad Matta?
  
  I remember back when people were saying Donovan was top 5 they also had Matta in there as well. Sure Matta still has been good but I always laughed when they said he was top 5 as well.
  
  Donovan's a good coach but I just don't see him having the success he had in the last decade.

  No one recruits better than Thad Matta at the current moment.
  
  Now I have to go slam my head against the wall, please excuse me.
• centralbucksfan

  trackandccrunner wrote:

  centralbucksfan wrote: I was never high on him either. But had to give him his kudos for winning two title. A LOT of coaches have great players and NEVER go on to win national title. The most overhyped coach in college right now is Cal...he has had some great teams/great players, never won a title.

  So you mean Cal is like Thad Matta?
  
  I remember back when people were saying Donovan was top 5 they also had Matta in there as well. Sure Matta still has been good but I always laughed when they said he was top 5 as well.
  
  Donovan's a good coach but I just don't see him having the success he had in the last decade.

  As far as resume' is concerned...Cal and Matta are very similar IMO.
  But Matta didn't have to cheat to get where he is today.
  Matta is fairly young as well. One of ONLY 2 head coaches to EVER win 20 games every as a head coach. Early 40's, a head coach for what, 11yrs I believe. Matta isn't top 5 obviously. Not until he gets a title at least. That could come in the near future with the talent he is bringing in.
• Phog Allen

  I agree with recs list. Coach K, Roy Williams, Coach Izzo, and Coach Self are a given in my opinion. It is hard to make a case against Coach Self not being at the top of the list. 6 straight conference championships in one of the best conferences in the nation! Are you kidding me?
  
  That 5th slot is up for grabs for me. Right now I'd put Coach Cal there even though I despise the creep.
• reclegend22

  

  He has risen!
• wildcats20

  

  I would go this way, in no order:
  
  K
  Roy
  Izzo
  Self
  Cal/Matta
• centralbucksfan

  K
  Roy
  Izzo
  Self
  Howland
  (how can anyone go with Cal over Howland?)