The Notre Dame Dillema

• krambman

  

  Notre Dame is currently faced with a decision: fire Charlie Weis or retain him as football coach. This decision causes a great dilemma for Notre Dame, because no matter which course of action they take, they will be making an admission that they don't want to make.
  
  If they fire Weis, they will be admitting that they made a mistake in hiring someone who had never been a head coach and who had never coached at the college level, and an even bigger mistake giving him a huge contract extension after a very short time at ND.
  
  If they keep him, they will be admitting that their place in college football has changed and that they are no longer the premier program in college football. Since Wies has the same record as Bob Davie when he was fired and the same win percentage as Tyrone Willingham when he was fired, so if you keep him you are admitting that the standard is no longer as high as it used to be. You are saying that going 8-4 every year is acceptable at Notre Dame.
  
  So, if you were in charge, which admission would be harder to make? If you keep him you admit that the standard has changed and you are still holding out hope that Weis can return the program to glory. If you fire him you have to pay you huge buy-out, but you also have the ability to hire someone else who (hopefully) can get it right and turn the program around. So, what do you do?
• derek bomar

  

  there was barely any talent at all when he got there outside of quinn and cubs pitcher... they're getting better, and for the continuity sake, I say keep em at least a year more
• killer_ewok

  

  They should fire him. It's obvious that the contract extension was a major miscalculation as was hiring him in the first place. They haven't got it right the last 3 times. The O'Leary and Meyer fiasco's. I think we're past the point of saving face.
• krambman

  

  there was barely any talent at all when he got there outside of quinn and cubs pitcher... they're getting better, and for the continuity sake, I say keep em at least a year more

  So your saying they should keep him because his team is performing worse with better talent? His two best seasons at ND where his first two, when he had "barely any talent." Now he has, in your opinion, better talent, yet his teams are playing worse and losing more games. Yep, sounds like a good reason to keep him around.
• centralbucksfan

  Well, I am sure ND fans will disagree...but I just don't think the "head coaching job" is as lucrative, relatively speaking, as it once was. There was a reason big name coaches weren't beating down the doors prevously and Urban Meyer walked away. I am not sure a guy like Brian Kelly would want it right now. Who knows. People talk about Gruden...well, you just failed with an NFL hire..I don't see that happening again to be honest. NFL and college are VERY different. The recruiting part and dealing with all the college stuff along with the limited practice time are very tough adjustments. I think on any given year, ND could be very good...but to expect them to be a yearly top 10 team..not sure I see that happening anymore.
  I really think O'Leary was a good fit when ND hired him. Unfortunately that turned bad real quick.
  Next few weeks will be interesting to see what direction ND decides to go.
• killer_ewok

  

  centralbucksfan wrote: Well, I am sure ND fans will disagree...but I just don't think the "head coaching job" is as lucrative, relatively speaking, as it once was. There was a reason big name coaches weren't beating down the doors prevously and Urban Meyer walked away. I am not sure a guy like Brian Kelly would want it right now. Who knows. People talk about Gruden...well, you just failed with an NFL hire..I don't see that happening again to be honest. NFL and college are VERY different. The recruiting part and dealing with all the college stuff along with the limited practice time are very tough adjustments. I think on any given year, ND could be very good...but to expect them to be a yearly top 10 team..not sure I see that happening anymore.
  I really think O'Leary was a good fit when ND hired him. Unfortunately that turned bad real quick.
  Next few weeks will be interesting to see what direction ND decides to go.

  If there's one thing that the head coaching job at Notre Dame is....it's lucrative. I don't think anyone will argue that. It's a job that you make a lot of money at. Maybe you were thinking of a different word. It's not as attractive as it used to be. I think that's what you were trying to say. However, there's more talent and depth across the board than there was during the last coaching search so I think it's more attractive than it was 5 years ago. But I would agree that it's not as attractive of a position as it was decades ago.
• bo shemmy3337

  I don't see the dilemma at all, Fire him. His average recruiting class is ranked better than OSU's. He is underachieving to say the least.
• OldDanTucker

  bo shemmy3337 wrote: I don't see the dilemma at all, Fire him. His average recruiting class is ranked better than OSU's. He is underachieving to say the least.

  You are all about the scout/rival/espn recruting rankings.
• bo shemmy3337

  OldDanTucker wrote:

  bo shemmy3337 wrote: I don't see the dilemma at all, Fire him. His average recruiting class is ranked better than OSU's. He is underachieving to say the least.

  You are all about the scout/rival/espn recruting rankings.

  
  
  Not really but when you get talent equal to what Florida/USC/OSU and other top schools get, you should beat at least one top 20 team in your tenure.
• Swamp Fox

  Get one more year on your initial investment, see if he can turn things around in year three and if there is no appreciable improvement, fire him, pay another king's ransom plus the Weis buyout and hope that the next guy can do better?????? Does this sound insane to anyone else but me?????
  
  But seriously......give him three years to get it done and if he doesn't, get someone else and hope that he's the guy you've been looking for.
• bo shemmy3337

  Swamp Fox wrote: Get one more year on your initial investment, see if he can turn things around in year three and if there is no appreciable improvement, fire him, pay another king's ransom plus the Weis buyout and hope that the next guy can do better?????? Does this sound insane to anyone else but me?????
  
  But seriously......give him three years to get it done and if he doesn't, get someone else and hope that he's the guy you've been looking for.

  Well lets say Clauson and some other guys stay and they do great next year. Then what? They leave and ND stinks again for 2 years and then one above average year before finally a great year? One great year out of 4 is not ND football.
• bo shemmy3337

  ccrunner609 wrote: Ahh a few psots about the mythical ND recruiting classes. THey are all 5* because ND is recruiting them. Once ND fans stop thinking like this they will realize that they are just an average team.
  
  THey have no conference, they have no gaurentees in the "BCS system".
  
  
  What they need is to join a BCS conference so they can get some BCS talent.

  Most kids are ranked way before the commit to any school.
• killer_ewok

  

  bo shemmy3337 wrote:

  ccrunner609 wrote: Ahh a few psots about the mythical ND recruiting classes. THey are all 5* because ND is recruiting them. Once ND fans stop thinking like this they will realize that they are just an average team.
  
  THey have no conference, they have no gaurentees in the "BCS system".
  
  
  What they need is to join a BCS conference so they can get some BCS talent.

  Most kids are ranked way before the commit to any school.

  
  Yep. ND is an average team but that doesn't mean that Clausen, Tate, Floyd, Rudolph, etc. are average players. Those players were highly-touted and sought after for a reason. Te'o was a top prospect long before he committed to ND. ND's lack of success under Weis is a reflection on him and his staff - not a lack of talent. The real myth is the idea that kids get stars added to their name because they committed to ND.
• killer_ewok

  

  ccrunner609 wrote: Then get rid of Weis. Get some defense and then they might win.

  I've stated on several occasions that I think Weis needs to go.
• maddmind

  haha. ND is aweful this year and the coach must be the difference. weis is likely gone and there DC obviously is having problems.
• maddmind

  im not a ND fan so help me out...are clausen and tate thinking of staying or leaving??? im just curious because i think they are both juniors.
• killer_ewok

  

  Clausen has said that he's not talking about it until after the season. I haven't heard anything from Tate but I'm guessing that if Clausen goes....Tate will follow.
• dwccrew

  

  ccrunner609 wrote: Ahh a few psots about the mythical ND recruiting classes. THey are all 5* because ND is recruiting them. Once ND fans stop thinking like this they will realize that they are just an average team.
  
  THey have no conference, they have no gaurentees in the "BCS system".
  
  
  What they need is to join a BCS conference so they can get some BCS talent.

  ND does have a guarantee in the BCS.
  
  http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/bcs_explained.html
  

  Under the new BCS arrangement Notre Dame will be guaranteed one of the at-large slots in a BCS bowl if it is ranked No. 8 or better in the final BCS Standings. It is also guaranteed annual payment for its participation in the BCS. In those seasons in which the Irish play in a BCS game, the school will receive $4.5 million (an amount equivalent that received by a conference that places a second team in a BCS bowl). In those seasons in which Notre Dame does not play in a BCS game, it is projected to be paid $1.3 million for its participation in the BCS arrangement.
  

  They have to finish in the top 8 to go, BCS conference teams have to win their conference. Both have to attain a certain status or achieve a certain feat.
  

  killer_ewok wrote: Clausen has said that he's not talking about it until after the season. I haven't heard anything from Tate but I'm guessing that if Clausen goes....Tate will follow.

  
  If Clausen said that, it leads me to believe that he will go, as he should. Tate will follow, both are 1st-2nd round picks.
• The Equalizer

  

  I'm honestly torn. On one hand we have a coach who has landed us some very high end potential studs in his recruiting; Te'o and Floyd, etc. On the other hand we have a coach who feels the need to run draws with our slowest running back or is too gutless to throw the ball past 12 yards until we're down 2 scores in the 3rd.
  
  In a perfect solution, we'd keep charlie, let him recruit and bring in talent, and also take the offensive playcalling out of his hands and bring in an experienced coordinator who would use our talent the right way. However that's unlikely to happen.
  
  The defense I don't think is fundamentally bad, it just seems like they're stupid at times. How many dumbass decisions has Harrison Smith made which resulted in late penalties? Same thing with the offensive line. I like the mentality and aggressiveness of the new OL coach but christ on a crutch Sam Young gets caught holding 3 times a game, and its always on 25 yard+ gains it seems like.
  
  It's very dissappointing to see results like this but at the end of the day you need someone with the balls to throw deep to your playmakers and use the personnel effectively. For every glimmer of hope Weis has given us, there are a dozen first halves in his tenure in which his play calling has cost us W's
• rock_knutne

  dwccrew wrote:They have to finish in the top 8 to go, BCS conference teams have to win their conference. Both have to attain a certain status or achieve a certain feat.

  
  They can also qualify (just like any other BCS school) for a BCS at-large bid if they win a minimum of nine games and finish in the top 14 of the final BCS standings.
• krambman

  

  You are correct, if ND finishes in the top 14 and have 9 wins they can be an at-large selection, and they are guaranteed a spot if they finish with 9 wins and are ranked in the top 8.
  
  And ccrunner, it's not like these players ND is getting are only being recruited by ND. they are being recruited by Florida, OSU, Oklahoma, USC, etc. They are getting top players, however, they tend to only be focusing on skill position players and not on the offensive line or the defense. They are like the Lions. Tons of wide receivers, QB's, and running backs, but no one to block for them or stop the other team from scoring.
• Teabagger

  athlete37 wrote: The new coach has been decided. Also, Jimmy was going to stay if Charlie was going to be back. Not sure what his status is now, but the new coach has produced some VERY successful college quarterbacks in the last decade

  So you know without a doubt who the new Coach is? Are you gonna share? At least pm me?? Sorry 1st post, but you have peaked my curiosity
• killer_ewok

  

  No kidding. Please PM the info, athlete37.
• killer_ewok

  

  Gotta be honest.....that sounds like either Bob Stoops or Norm Chow. If that's the case....I'm praying it's Stoops.
• rock_knutne

  ewok, check your PM's.