Historians, is this true about Ohio State?

• DaBrowns41

  ytownfootball wrote:

  detectivegibbles wrote:

  thedynasty1998 wrote: I'll be the first to admit that I was as down on the Big 10 and OSU as anyone. But they really proved themselves this bowl season, and this OSU team has to go down as one of the better OSU teams in history.

  Eh, that's pushing it...Maybe top 15 teams of all time but I could rattle off 7 or 8 right off the top of the head that were better than this years team.

  There may be several teams that were "better" but very few that have the resume' of facts to prove it.

  Just makes you wonder, what if Tressel was coaching some of Coop's teams? Vice versa?
• the_system

  The Nebraska 95 team is the closest I can think of. They beat 4 top 10 teams in the final 5 or 6 weeks of the season by an average score of 49-18. They ended up beating four 10 win teams. To their credit this was back when seasons were 11-12 games and not 13-15.
• centralbucksfan

  thedynasty1998 wrote: I'll be the first to admit that I was as down on the Big 10 and OSU as anyone. But they really proved themselves this bowl season, and this OSU team has to go down as one of the better OSU teams in history.

  One of the better in OSU history? Either your joking, or you have only been following OSU this decade. I am not sure this team was in top 20 all time.
• enigmaax

  Big Gain wrote: UM....
  Navy played Ohio State, Pittsburg, SMU and Notre Dame
  Boise State played Oregon and.....and......and....?????

  Yeah, again.....okay. Why are we talking about Boise State?
• darbypitcher22

  

  yeah not sure what Boise has to do with this discussion...
  
  You obviously can't put this team above the 7 that have won National Championships...
  
  so now you're down to 8 at least.... there were some other great teams that were close to winning championships (1969, 1970, 1996, 1998).... so now you're down to 12.... throw some other Rose Bowl Championship Clubs in there, and now you're at the bottom end of the Top 20....
• NOL fan

  darbypitcher22 wrote: yeah not sure what Boise has to do with this discussion...
  
  You obviously can't put this team above the 7 that have won National Championships...
  
  so now you're down to 8 at least.... there were some other great teams that were close to winning championships (1969, 1970, 1996, 1998).... so now you're down to 12.... throw some other Rose Bowl Championship Clubs in there, and now you're at the bottom end of the Top 20....

  um, if you're going to mention 7 national titles, 1970 is included as an NC year
• Tiernan

  Never let the truth get in the way of a good story...sounds good let's go with with it!
• karen lotz

  

  NOL fan wrote:

  darbypitcher22 wrote: yeah not sure what Boise has to do with this discussion...
  
  You obviously can't put this team above the 7 that have won National Championships...
  
  so now you're down to 8 at least.... there were some other great teams that were close to winning championships (1969, 1970, 1996, 1998).... so now you're down to 12.... throw some other Rose Bowl Championship Clubs in there, and now you're at the bottom end of the Top 20....

  um, if you're going to mention 7 national titles, 1970 is included as an NC year

  When did they start recognizing 1970 as a NC year? When I was in school and last in the Shoe, 1968 was the most recent NC "banner" that was on display. Why did they decide to acknowledge it some 40 years later??
• NOL fan

  out of this list of 20 possibilities, OSU recognizes 42, 54, 57, 61, 68, 70 and 02 (those are the banners in the WHAC)
  
  the list: http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigten/ohio_state/all_national_champs.php
  
  61 and 70 are the iffy ones, the other 5 are recognized nationally
  
  and I wonder why we claim 61 and 70, but not some of those other years like 44 or 73
• karen lotz

  

  That's all fine, but I guess my question is, why did they just decide to recognize 1970 within the past couple years?? When did they hang that sign in the stadium?
• NOL fan

  karen lotz wrote: That's all fine, but I guess my question is, why did they just decide to recognize 1970 within the past couple years?? When did they hang that sign in the stadium?

  when was the last time you were there, and where were those banners? I don't remember seeing any signs or banners for NCs when I went to several games back in 06 and 07. The only thing along that line I remember is a sign for Woody Hayes that says "13 big ten titles, 5 national titles." The 5 aren't mentioned by year on the sign, but would include 61 and 70
• NOL fan

  though, to answer your question...I don't know when or why OSU started recognizing it, only that it is recognized
• karen lotz

  

  hmmmm maybe '05?? Don't recall for sure. I think I remember they had the same kind of signs for NC years that they had for the retired numbers...just the gray signs with red numbers on them. When I saw a shot of them on TV this past fall, it appeared that the 1970 sign was newer, as it wasn't showing the wear that sunlight/weather had on the others?? Maybe I am just imagining this. But regardless while I was in school 1968 was widely acknowledged as the most recent (not including 02) NC year. I'm not trying to take a jab at OSU, just curious as to when they decided to say 1970 was a title year, especially since it has been nearly 40 years??
• karen lotz

  

  NOL fan wrote: though, to answer your question...I don't know when or why OSU started recognizing it, only that it is recognized

  ok fair enough
• NOL fan

  I do know that the signs and video boards at the stadium have been updated recently. Here's a pic I found that I think is from after that change:
  
  
• BigAppleBuckeye

  

  NOL fan wrote:

  karen lotz wrote: That's all fine, but I guess my question is, why did they just decide to recognize 1970 within the past couple years?? When did they hang that sign in the stadium?

  when was the last time you were there, and where were those banners? I don't remember seeing any signs or banners for NCs when I went to several games back in 06 and 07. The only thing along that line I remember is a sign for Woody Hayes that says "13 big ten titles, 5 national titles." The 5 aren't mentioned by year on the sign, but would include 61 and 70

  Here you go:
  
  
• BigAppleBuckeye

  

  ^^haha, too funny, I didn't see your post and added the same exact pic, my bad!^^
• the_system

  NOL fan wrote: out of this list of 20 possibilities, OSU recognizes 42, 54, 57, 61, 68, 70 and 02 (those are the banners in the WHAC)
  
  the list: http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigten/ohio_state/all_national_champs.php
  
  61 and 70 are the iffy ones, the other 5 are recognized nationally
  
  and I wonder why we claim 61 and 70, but not some of those other years like 44 or 73

  I don't know how OSU claims 1970. Nebraska won the AP title and went undefeated, while Texas won the UPI title. OSU lost one game and won one regional poll. It is a completely unrecognized title, while Nebraska and Texas are recognized as National Champs. I'm not sure how Texas is recognized either since they lost their bowl game to ND.
  
  Here are OSU's 5 official National Championships. They were never officially national champs the other two seasons.
  
  http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigten/ohio_state/national_champs.php
  
  
  Not only did they lose a game in 1970...they lost the last game of the year in the bowl game vs. Stanford. How can you win a title losing in your bowl game?
• georgemc80

  the_system wrote: How can you win a title losing in your bowl game?

  Because they are Mythical National Championships...every last one of them...and every other title that any school claims.
• enigmaax

  the_system wrote:

  NOL fan wrote: and I wonder why we claim 61 and 70, but not some of those other years like 44 or 73

  I don't know how OSU claims 1970. Nebraska won the AP title and went undefeated, while Texas won the UPI title. OSU lost one game and won one regional poll. It is a completely unrecognized title, while Nebraska and Texas are recognized as National Champs. I'm not sure how Texas is recognized either since they lost their bowl game to ND.
  
  Here are OSU's 5 official National Championships. They were never officially national champs the other two seasons.
  
  http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigten/ohio_state/national_champs.php
  
  
  Not only did they lose a game in 1970...they lost the last game of the year in the bowl game vs. Stanford. How can you win a title losing in your bowl game?

  Well, there are no "official" national champions because the NCAA doesn't crown a D-I/FBS national champion. They do list several selecting organizations on their official site(s). The ones that most people don't generally recognize/remember/know about are the Football Writers Association of America (FWAA) and National Football Foundation (NFF).
  
  Probably don't need to detail all the flaws for you, but it wasn't until the late 60s/early 70s that any poll crowned a champ after the bowl games because the bowls were treated more like exhibitions (didn't count in official stats, etc.) and they actually waffled a couple times before settling on the after-bowl polls (and stats still didn't count for bowls for about 30 years).
  
  As for Ohio State, they were selected as co-champion of the NFF poll along with Texas in 1970 (in addition to the AP and UPI information you mentioned above). The 1961 title for OSU was awarded by the FWAA.
  
  I've read and heard different versions of how prominently recognized those titles were at the time.
  
  Here's the "official" NCAA list of unofficial titles (according to ncaa.com):
  
  http://www.ncaa.com/history/football-fbs.html
• Writerbuckeye

  

  thedynasty1998 wrote: I'm not saying this is the best OSU team ever, but it isn't unreasonable for someone to make a case for one of the top 10 of all time. They will likely end the AP poll in the top 3-4 and their schedule looks pretty good now that the season is over.

  No. Sorry. Not even in the top 10 for the past 40 years that I've been watching OSU.
  
  This team finished very strong and Tressel doesn't get enough credit for having his teams (usually) playing their best football in November.
• the_system

  enigmaax wrote:

  the_system wrote:

  NOL fan wrote: and I wonder why we claim 61 and 70, but not some of those other years like 44 or 73

  I don't know how OSU claims 1970. Nebraska won the AP title and went undefeated, while Texas won the UPI title. OSU lost one game and won one regional poll. It is a completely unrecognized title, while Nebraska and Texas are recognized as National Champs. I'm not sure how Texas is recognized either since they lost their bowl game to ND.
  
  Here are OSU's 5 official National Championships. They were never officially national champs the other two seasons.
  
  http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigten/ohio_state/national_champs.php
  
  
  Not only did they lose a game in 1970...they lost the last game of the year in the bowl game vs. Stanford. How can you win a title losing in your bowl game?

  Well, there are no "official" national champions because the NCAA doesn't crown a D-I/FBS national champion. They do list several selecting organizations on their official site(s). The ones that most people don't generally recognize/remember/know about are the Football Writers Association of America (FWAA) and National Football Foundation (NFF).
  
  Probably don't need to detail all the flaws for you, but it wasn't until the late 60s/early 70s that any poll crowned a champ after the bowl games because the bowls were treated more like exhibitions (didn't count in official stats, etc.) and they actually waffled a couple times before settling on the after-bowl polls (and stats still didn't count for bowls for about 30 years).
  
  As for Ohio State, they were selected as co-champion of the NFF poll along with Texas in 1970 (in addition to the AP and UPI information you mentioned above). The 1961 title for OSU was awarded by the FWAA.
  
  I've read and heard different versions of how prominently recognized those titles were at the time.
  
  Here's the "official" NCAA list of unofficial titles (according to ncaa.com):
  
  http://www.ncaa.com/history/football-fbs.html

  I'm sorry, but you don't lose your final game of the season (a bowl game) and win a title. Especially when Nebraska had no losses and won their bowl game over a very good LSU team in 1970. The AP was the most credible at the time.
  
  The UPI crowned Texas champs before the bowl game was played. Same with Ohio State and the NFF. Texas was ranked #1 in the AP going into their game with ND. OSU was #2 in the AP going into their bowl game. Texas lost 24-11 to ND. OSU lost 27-17 to Stanford. Nebraska at #3 beat #5 LSU 17-12, jumping the #1-#2 losers and claiming the AP title.
  
  The NFF, realizing how stupid they looked for picking national champs before the bowl games, changed their ways the very next season (1971). It was then that they decided to wait before doing so.
• Big Gain

  enigmaax wrote:

  Big Gain wrote: UM....
  Navy played Ohio State, Pittsburg, SMU and Notre Dame
  Boise State played Oregon and.....and......and....?????

  Yeah, again.....okay. Why are we talking about Boise State?

  YEP, again, BECAUSE, Navy's schedule was questioned on this thread, just a simple comparison to another Bowl team.
  
  You're short unintelligent one liners wouldn't make you look uninformed if you would read entire threads.
• enigmaax

  the_system wrote: I'm sorry, but you don't lose your final game of the season (a bowl game) and win a title. Especially when Nebraska had no losses and won their bowl game over a very good LSU team in 1970. The AP was the most credible at the time.
  
  The UPI crowned Texas champs before the bowl game was played. Same with Ohio State and the NFF. Texas was ranked #1 in the AP going into their game with ND. OSU was #2 in the AP going into their bowl game. Texas lost 24-11 to ND. OSU lost 27-17 to Stanford. Nebraska at #3 beat #5 LSU 17-12, jumping the #1-#2 losers and claiming the AP title.
  
  The NFF, realizing how stupid they looked for picking national champs before the bowl games, changed their ways the very next season (1971). It was then that they decided to wait before doing so.

  The AP poll crowned five bowl game losers in the 50s and 60s, including the first 2-loss team (1960 Rose Bowl-losing Minnesota Golden Gophers).
  
  Alabama won the 1964 title before it lost its bowl game. The next year, the AP waited until after bowls and Alabama benefitted from Michigan State's bowl loss. Then they went back to a before-bowl vote for two years (probably inconsequential, but Notre Dame didn't even play bowl games back then and won the 1966 title) before going to a post-bowl vote in the 1968 season.
  
  I think UPI finally changed in 1974 to post-bowl selections, but I could be off a year or two.
• enigmaax

  Big Gain wrote: YEP, again, BECAUSE, Navy's schedule was questioned on this thread, just a simple comparison to another Bowl team.
  
  You're short unintelligent one liners wouldn't make you look uninformed if you would read entire threads.

  A comparison that doesn't mean anything because "bowl teams" isn't a topic or subtopic of any post.
  
  Here's a summary:
  
  Fact: Ohio State beat 5 teams with 10+ wins.
  Question: Has any other team done that?
  Fact: LSU won 5 games against 10+ win teams.
  Opinion: Wins over I-AA teams shouldn't count.
  Opinion: Navy's schedule isn't great and included a win over an I-AA team to get to 10.
  Point: Either you want the fact as to who has beaten five 10+ win teams or you want to nitpick as to which 10+ win teams shouldn't count as 10+ win teams.
  
  Now tell me, where does Boise State fit in there?