How's your team looking for '14-'15
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sleeper
I can respect that.SportsAndLady;1603489 wrote:Buike has posted numerous times on here about uk's football team. -
SportsAndLady
I'm sure that will make buike's day.sleeper;1603512 wrote:I can respect that. -
reclegend22
Mitch McGary still deciding apparently. Or, more likely, maybe waiting to see what some other guys do. With this being a pretty loaded draft, especially at his position, it might be wise for McGary to return another year (like a Mason Plumlee, for example). Sometimes it pays to come back and get more experience.Laley23;1603497 wrote:Statuskas gone.
Then again, his draft could continue to plummet (like James Michael McAdoo). -
Azubuike24
There are a lot of guys who have declining or already dropped draft stock who will still go. I mean, I get it, but these are definitely decisions one should think about. After your Sophomore is when your potential starts to diminish. If I'm a guy not projected in the first round and a Freshman, I'd return to school, especially if your playing time situation looks better next season. -
ernest_t_bass
Tim Duncan says hello.Azubuike24;1603580 wrote:There are a lot of guys who have declining or already dropped draft stock who will still go. I mean, I get it, but these are definitely decisions one should think about. After your Sophomore is when your potential starts to diminish. If I'm a guy not projected in the first round and a Freshman, I'd return to school, especially if your playing time situation looks better next season. -
Azubuike24
There are exceptions everywhere. Lillard. Curry. Duncan. George. The majority of players start seeing "potential" drop after 2 years. Take a list of the top 50 players CURRENTLY in the NBA and let me know how many spent more than 2 years in college. It's probably under 10%.ernest_t_bass;1603582 wrote:Tim Duncan says hello. -
Azubuike24
Just as an example...using this ranking (which by no means is this how I'd rank players, but at least it's a list to reference)...
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings
5. Stephen Curry, 3 years in college
7. Paul George, 3 years in college
14. Damian Lillard, 4 years in college
22. Chandler Parsons, 4 years in college
24. Joakim Noah, 3 years in college
26. Isaiah Thomas, 3 years in college
34. Kemba Walker, 3 years in college
43. Wesley Matthews, 4 years in college
44. Tim Duncan, 4 years in college
45. David Lee, 3 years in college
50. David West, 4 years in college
So, if you just use this list as an example, only 11 of 50 guys went to college for 3 or more years, 4 of the 11 in the bottom 10 of the top 50. This means if you find yourself playing your Junior year in the NCAA, the statistical odds are extremely high that you're not going to make it.
Lets also include that this list DOES NOT include Kobe Bryant, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook and possibly others who do not quality to be ranked due to games played, but would clearly be in the top 50, pushing a few of these guys out. -
Laley23
I am the opposite way on McGary. Dude needs to get out before he misses another year.
Backs are nothing to fuck around with. If he returns and has more issues with his back, that will be catastrophic. to the point he may not get drafted. -
Azubuike24
Mitch McGary is 22 years old, very old for a Sophomore. Another reason he would be absolutely stupid to attempt a return to UM. Another reason many questioned why he didn't enter last year.
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centralbucksfan
Personally, I don't get the love fest with McGary. He was below avg during the season last year, 7pts and 6 rb. Obviously had a nice run in NCAA. Then all of a sudden he is a pre-season all american?? Really? I was like WTF. Personally, I just don't see it. He is obviously a good player. Great? Not IMHO. And I really question how good he will be as a pro as well.Azubuike24;1603658 wrote:Mitch McGary is 22 years old, very old for a Sophomore. Another reason he would be absolutely stupid to attempt a return to UM. Another reason many questioned why he didn't enter last year. -
Azubuike24
CBF, I agree. However, he's projected higher than players such as Jarnell Stokes, Johnny O'Bryant, Patric Young, all more skilled and more athletic. McGary is actually older than Juniors Stokes and O'Bryant. I guess you could argue McGary is a true "center", although he's lucky if he measures over 6'9.
If you compare McGary to centers, he's also projected ahead of 7'1 Isaiah Austin and 6'10 Dwight Powell. Again, players with better production (although Austin is also a disappoint numbers wise).
While I'm not a scout or GM and am only offering an opinion, McGary is maybe the most overrated prospect I've seen in mock drafts. I might be wrong, but it just furthers the point about how dumb it was that he returned. Now, he's got an injury and year older to deal with. -
Laley23
McGary was pretty much a beast once he started starting.
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Midstate01
Mcgary should take the Sully route. Go now and then let them pay for your rehab or any additional procedures. -
vball10setAzubuike24;1603658 wrote:Mitch McGary is 22 years old, very old for a Sophomore. Another reason he would be absolutely stupid to attempt a return to UM. Another reason many questioned why he didn't enter last year.
Agree with these.Midstate01;1603696 wrote:Mcgary should take the Sully route. Go now and then let them pay for your rehab or any additional procedures. -
thavoice
That is one way to look at it,. It isnt like playing 3+ years in college is detrimental, it just means that anymore many of the top guys dont go that long. Very good chance that the guys in the current top 50 would still be there even if they had played 3+ in college and some very well could have benefited from staying an developed a little more, but hell, why stay in college to improve your game if you are going ot get drafted and get PAID to develope your game?Azubuike24;1603612 wrote:Just as an example...using this ranking (which by no means is this how I'd rank players, but at least it's a list to reference)...
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings
5. Stephen Curry, 3 years in college
7. Paul George, 3 years in college
14. Damian Lillard, 4 years in college
22. Chandler Parsons, 4 years in college
24. Joakim Noah, 3 years in college
26. Isaiah Thomas, 3 years in college
34. Kemba Walker, 3 years in college
43. Wesley Matthews, 4 years in college
44. Tim Duncan, 4 years in college
45. David Lee, 3 years in college
50. David West, 4 years in college
So, if you just use this list as an example, only 11 of 50 guys went to college for 3 or more years, 4 of the 11 in the bottom 10 of the top 50. This means if you find yourself playing your Junior year in the NCAA, the statistical odds are extremely high that you're not going to make it.
Lets also include that this list DOES NOT include Kobe Bryant, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook and possibly others who do not quality to be ranked due to games played, but would clearly be in the top 50, pushing a few of these guys out. -
wildcats20
Horford is transferring from Michigan, could mean McGary is returning. -
reclegend22
The only reason McGary would be crazy to return to Michigan is because of the issues with his back. As CBF said, I don't really believe the hype as it is and had McGary left last season who knows how it would have turned out for him (aside from the guaranteed money had he gone lottery).
If McGary never had injured his back and decided to stay in college for three years, he might lose some draft position but the extra time in college might also help his overall development and better prepare him for his first couple of years in the league when he'll be hoping to set himself up for the future.
Take Mason Plumlee, for example. He was widely considered a potential lottery pick after his sophomore year, but ended up playing at Duke the whole four years. While he probably lost some draft position -- he ended up going 22nd in 2013 -- the additional years he spent working on his game in college at a school that produces terrible big guys has turned out to be a pretty good decision in hindsight. Plumlee proved ready to play right away, has put together a solid first season with the Nets that is likely to result in a big second contract in the near future. Had Plumlee come out as a 20-year-old, who knows if he'd still be in the League today. -
Laley23
I hate the argument of developing your game...
Who is to say you cant develop it even more in the NBA? Plumlee easily couldve gone out earlier and been just as good now as he is. -
vball10set
That, or the bigs on the bench or coming in are better than him...any hints on where he's transferring to?wildcats20;1603723 wrote:Horford is transferring from Michigan, could mean McGary is returning. -
Azubuike24
thavoice, I totally agree with you. However, it comes down to the value of time and money. Why stay in college, LOSE time invested and MONEY immediately? As Laley said, the development, especially for a certain type of prospect, is far better in the NBA. That's why if I'm Mitch McGary, Willie Cauley-Stein, Isaiah Austin, etc...any legit center, I'm gone. Hate to say it, even Dakari Johnson. This is especially true if your already in the top 15-20 picks.
Now, if you're toiling in the early-mid 2nd, it's justifiable that a Freshman come back for 1 year, try to get his stock into the mid/late 1st round and then what he lost in the time, he makes up with the money. As we discussed earlier, your age really starts to be a big factor when your 21 and 22. Quite simply, the odds of being picked high or stock increasing is just very minimal. -
thavoiceAzubuike24;1603779 wrote:thavoice, I totally agree with you. However, it comes down to the value of time and money. Why stay in college, LOSE time invested and MONEY immediately? As Laley said, the development, especially for a certain type of prospect, is far better in the NBA. That's why if I'm Mitch McGary, Willie Cauley-Stein, Isaiah Austin, etc...any legit center, I'm gone. Hate to say it, even Dakari Johnson. This is especially true if your already in the top 15-20 picks.
Now, if you're toiling in the early-mid 2nd, it's justifiable that a Freshman come back for 1 year, try to get his stock into the mid/late 1st round and then what he lost in the time, he makes up with the money. As we discussed earlier, your age really starts to be a big factor when your 21 and 22. Quite simply, the odds of being picked high or stock increasing is just very minimal.
Yeah, I agree why waste that time and money. Cannot fault the guys leaving to do this. As for my comments about developing in college instead of the NBA...sometimes it is just easier to work on things you need to work on while you are playing against you are just better than. Sort of like in minor league baseball/ST for guys. It is a little easier to work on things you really need to when you arent going against the best of the best. (but an argument can be said going against better competition will make you better too)
Sure you can develope in the NBA, guys do it all the time. Just saying that there are inevitably guys who could use another year in college to work on some of their shortcomings. Hard to really guage the whole aspect though and is just a way of thinking.
The Plumlee example tha rec gave. Apparently he dropped after staying in college longer. How could that happen? One train of thought is that the NBA is drafting these young players so high part on what they can do, and quite a bit on what their potential is. Maybe Plumlee, and I dont know as I dont watch them match, dropped some because after 4 years of college the "potential" and upside didnt seem as big because he had those two extra years.
Staying def could hurt guys as their "potential" may drop.
If player A is really good after his frosh year teams will druel to get him thinking "if he is this good after just being 19/frosh year, think how good he iwll be in a few more seasons. Player B stays 4 years and some of that thinking may be lessened.
Cannot blame these guys for leaving when they can. Even if they make a minumn they are still doing well -
Azubuike24
You also have to look at your competition. We sometimes see guys as naive, but IMO, you can't honestly equate the 2013 and 2014 draft. The depth of prospects in this draft is much better.
Again, we're seeing yet another reason is was crazy for McGary to not have gone last year... -
reclegend22
And maybe not. It's unknowable either way. Just pointing out that staying in school, finishing up his education and working on his overall game actually worked out alright for a guy like Mason Plumlee. While it's true that Plumlee could've developed his game just as easily spending his first couple of seasons on the bench in the League, he did do that at Duke and was ready to play and make an impact right away, while accomplishing whatever he set out to do in college.Laley23;1603740 wrote:I hate the argument of developing your game...
Who is to say you cant develop it even more in the NBA? Plumlee easily couldve gone out earlier and been just as good now as he is. -
reclegend22
And while I'm not sure this is true for Plumlee or McGary, some guys, especially teenagers, are simply not prepared for the mental and personal rigors of dealing with life in the NBA, both in the locker room and outside of the arena. That extra year or two of maturity and individual growth in college can do certain kids wonders and better ensure their success at the next level. This is often overlooked IMO. Again, though, this doesn't apply to every player by any means.
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Azubuike24
I don't buy this. If you play at Kentucky or Duke, you're more than prepared for it. You're going to be more scrutinized by the media and fans at one of these places than you will in the NBA unless you're a top of the line lotto pick or a superstar player.reclegend22;1603795 wrote:And while I'm not sure this is true for Plumlee or McGary, some guys, especially teenagers, are simply not prepared for the mental and personal rigors of dealing with life in the NBA, both in the locker room and outside of the arena. That extra year or two of maturity and individual growth in college can do certain kids wonders and better ensure their success at the next level. This is often overlooked IMO. Again, though, this doesn't apply to every player by any means.