Should Ohio State start the season #1? Also, TP and DR debate

• Me?

  

  Uhhh..no, it wasn't. I was given a scenario, by someone who didn't make the claim (you did), that only included two undefeated teams. It didn't paint a scenario where Ohio State gets left out. Go ahead, give it a try. Wouldn't it be much easier to just shut me up by backing your claim with a substantial argument or do you really not have one?
• WebFire

  Me?;1486914 wrote:Uhhh..no, it wasn't. I was given a scenario, by someone who didn't make the claim (you did), that only included two undefeated teams. It didn't paint a scenario where Ohio State gets left out. Go ahead, give it a try. Wouldn't it be much easier to just shut me up by backing your claim with a substantial argument or do you really not have one?

  Fine. Alabama and Oregon undefeated. OSU could be left out.
  
  Happy?
• Me?

  

  Wouldn't say happy, my mood never changed from the beginning of this conversation. I do disagree though. I don't see a single scenario where Ohio State gets left out. In that scenario, I believe Oregon would be left out and I don't really even think there would be much debate about it. 25-0 would matter. The Urban Meyer factor would matter. I still think the general consensus is that people respect the Big Ten more than the Pac 12. It's tough to make a very strong argument that Oregon's schedule is a lot harder than Ohio State's. Then once you bring the money and the following into play, it's really not even close.
  
  All that said, and this is complete speculation obviously, but I don't see Oregon or any SEC team going undefeated anyways.
• WebFire

  Me?;1486929 wrote:
  All that said, and this is complete speculation obviously, but I don't see Oregon or any SEC team going undefeated anyways.

  I don't think anyone in the B1G does either.
• Rotinaj

  

  Ok you're right, if OSU goes undefeated there is an absolute 0% chance that they get left out.
• WebFire

  Me?;1486929 wrote:Wouldn't say happy, my mood never changed from the beginning of this conversation. I do disagree though. I don't see a single scenario where Ohio State gets left out. In that scenario, I believe Oregon would be left out and I don't really even think there would be much debate about it. 25-0 would matter. The Urban Meyer factor would matter. I still think the general consensus is that people respect the Big Ten more than the Pac 12. It's tough to make a very strong argument that Oregon's schedule is a lot harder than Ohio State's. Then once you bring the money and the following into play, it's really not even close.
  
  All that said, and this is complete speculation obviously, but I don't see Oregon or any SEC team going undefeated anyways.

  The problem with hypotheticals, and the reason I didn't really care to, is that there are too many variables. You even mention one with OSU, 25-0. That shouldn't matter, nor should Urban. It may be in the minds of some voters though.
  
  Variable such as SOS, margin of victory, etc. Hypos mean nothing.
• WebFire

  Rotinaj;1486933 wrote:Ok you're right, if OSU goes undefeated there is an absolute 0% chance that they get left out.

  Funny thing about this is that they very well may have been left out last year. But he thinks it's impossible.
• Heretic

  

  WebFire;1486935 wrote:Funny thing about this is that they very well may have been left out last year. But he thinks it's impossible.

  Yeah. From my perspective, while I understand how things like the Urban factor and the undefeated factor would work towards Ohio State, there also are negative factors. Namely, the national media perception (whether right or wrong) that the Big 10 is overall weak/down right now combined with Ohio State's weak-as-fuck non-conference schedule. With them starting at #2, they have that in their favor as long as they win, win and win more; but if those wins are ugly, it's easy to see the voters/computers/etc. have other teams leapfrog them, so I don't know that anything would be a 100% guarantee.
• Fly4Fun

  

  WebFire;1486934 wrote:The problem with hypotheticals, and the reason I didn't really care to, is that there are too many variables. You even mention one with OSU, 25-0. That shouldn't matter, nor should Urban. It may be in the minds of some voters though.
  
  Variable such as SOS, margin of victory, etc. Hypos mean nothing.

  Be honest, you really don't think a team going undefeated two years in a row won't play a factor in whether it is chosen over another undefeated team when they both have very similar SoS?
  
  http://fansided.com/2013/06/13/2013-college-football-strength-of-schedule/
  
  Oregon 113; Ohio State 105
  
  http://www.fbschedules.com/2013/07/phil-steele-2013-college-football-strength-of-schedule-rankings/
  
  Oregon 59; Ohio State 68
  
  http://www.collegefootballuniverseblog.com/1/post/2013/06/college-football-strength-of-schedule-preseason-2013.html
  
  Oregon 39; Ohio State 46
  
  Now predicting SoS before games are played is even more idiotic than preseason rankings before games are played. Hell, between three of the different top search results from google there is a huge difference in their predictions, but in all of the predictions both Ohio State and Oregon are close.
• Me?

  

  You can just look at the schedules and tell they aren't that far apart. Oregon gets to dodge USC this year, if not for that, then I would agree that an undefeated Oregon would jump an undefeated Ohio State, but that isn't the case. Last year and this year are completely different.
• Me?

  

  Ohio State came off their worst season in recent memory last year. Had a first year coach, unproven QB and were missing a lot of starting talent. They were barely ranked in the top 20 in preseason. And they had no business being undefeated, they got lucky many times. This season, ranked #2, coming off an undefeated season with a QB that put up a Heisman like season last year, a coach that is universally seen as one of the top 3 in the game with some wins under his belt at his new job. Last season they would have had to do the jumping. They definitely would have been left out. This year they have to BE jumped. It's a MUCH different situation.
• Fly4Fun

  

  Also, I hate having this discussion right now as going undefeated is pretty damn rare and a lot of things can happen in a season ranging from bad games to injuries to surprise underclassmen.
  
  I don't think there is really any reason to worry about OSU being left out if they are undefeated at this point as they have a long journey to go on before that.
• Me?

  

  Fly4Fun;1486957 wrote:Also, I hate having this discussion right now as going undefeated is pretty damn rare and a lot of things can happen in a season ranging from bad games to injuries to surprise underclassmen.
  
  I don't think there is really any reason to worry about OSU being left out if they are undefeated at this point as they have a long journey to go on before that.

  I agree. To be honest, though I certainly hope I'm wrong, I have a feeling they aren't going to go undefeated even though they really should.
• Fly4Fun

  

  Me?;1486959 wrote:I agree. To be honest, though I certainly hope I'm wrong, I have a feeling they aren't going to go undefeated even though they really should.

  Odds are they aren't going undefeated so you're feeling isn't really off-base. That's just the nature of sports.
  
  And that's the reason I was able to really enjoy last season despite no post-season. Perfection is rare enough in sports it should always be appreciated.
• vball10set

  Fly4Fun;1486957 wrote:Also, I hate having this discussion right now as going undefeated is pretty damn rare and a lot of things can happen in a season ranging from bad games to injuries to surprise underclassmen.

  Especially in back to back seasons, and the last to do that was who, '94-'95 Nebraska?
• Fly4Fun

  

  vball10set;1486963 wrote:Especially in back to back seasons, and the last to do that was who, '94-'95 Nebraska?

  Well for the purposes of the discussion we're having (undefeated before bowl game of 2nd year) the last team to do it was Miami Hurricanes. And we all remember what happened in that game.
• vball10set

  Fly4Fun;1486966 wrote:Well for the purposes of the discussion we're having (undefeated before bowl game of 2nd year) the last team to do it was Miami Hurricanes. And we all remember what happened in that game.

  I was talking wire-to-wire, but yes, I remember it well :thumbup:
• Fly4Fun

  

  vball10set;1486968 wrote:I was talking wire-to-wire, but yes, I remember it well :thumbup:

  I know, I just wanted a reason to bring up that game/season.
• WebFire

  Fly4Fun;1486944 wrote:Be honest, you really don't think a team going undefeated two years in a row won't play a factor in whether it is chosen over another undefeated team when they both have very similar SoS?

  No, I don't think that. If you read my post, I said it shouldn't matter (because it shouldn't, I think we all agree on that), but that some voters would have it on their mind. But it is a variable nonetheless.
• Me?

  

  Man I love Michigan fans that poke fun at Terrelle Pryor's throwing ability, while they were living in the Denard Robinson era.
• WebFire

  Me?;1486978 wrote:Man I love Michigan fans that poke fun at Terrelle Pryor's throwing ability, while they were living in the Denard Robinson era.

  DR couldn't throw to save his life. Nice try though.
• Fly4Fun

  

  WebFire;1486988 wrote:DR couldn't throw to save his life. Nice try though.

  I think that's his point?
  
  It really doesn't make too much sense to make make fun of another team's former QB when your own QB during that period had what everyone called the "arm punt."
• WebFire

  Fly4Fun;1486994 wrote:I think that's his point?
  
  It really doesn't make too much sense to make make fun of another team's former QB when your own QB during that period had what everyone called the "arm punt."

  No, his point was that I made fun of TP but probably thought DR was awesome. With your point, I would still expect any OSU or Mich fan to make fun of the other at any given chance.
• Fly4Fun

  

  WebFire;1486999 wrote:No, his point was that I made fun of TP but probably thought DR was awesome. With your point, I would still expect any OSU or Mich fan to make fun of the other at any given chance.

  I don't think anyone could be accused of thinking DR was awesome at throwing... it was a classic pot/kettle situation.
  
  It would be like if OSU fans made fun of Michigan for losing to an Appalachian State while we also lost to a FBS school in the same season.
• Me?

  

  What you thought about Denard Robinson doesn't have anything to do with it. You're pretty fucking dense bro.