Oregon, NCAA agreed Ducks committed 'major violations'

• lhslep134

  

  Tressel was initially emailed in April 2010. That meant he knew before the season, before the attempted championship run. But please, don't let facts get in the way of your delusional opinion that what Oregon did was as egregious as Ohio State.
• lhslep134

  

  HitsRus;1462988 wrote:This is the kind of hair splitting that is exactly the problem with NCAA enforcement and its arbitrary rulings.

  While most of the time the NCAA acts arbitrarily, Ohio State's case had to do with lying, which automatically distinguishes it.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  No post-season ban is ridiculous.
• Fly4Fun

  

  lhslep134;1463009 wrote:Tressel was initially emailed in April 2010. That meant he knew before the season, before the attempted championship run. But please, don't let facts get in the way of your delusional opinion that what Oregon did was as egregious as Ohio State.

  Okay, like I said in my original post. I wasn't intimately familiar with the details. But even with this, my point still stands. At best, what Oregon did was just as bad as OSU. Tressel lied to preserve his team for the season (competitive advantage on the field). What Oregon did was give large amounts of cash to a "Recruiter" to get highly sought after (5 star guys) out of Texas to Oregon, which is a competitive advantage on the field. And don't say you never know how these guys were going to pan out, the list that I remember off the top of my head included two 5 star RB's both one of whom was a huge cog in Oregon's system and success (LaMichael James) and the second of whom is doing exceptionally well on his own even though he transferred.
  
  Once again, what Oregon did is at least just as bad as OSU as far as trying to gain a competitive advantage by getting talented players on the field.
• lhslep134

  

  Fly4Fun;1463022 wrote:Okay, like I said in my original post. I wasn't intimately familiar with the details. But even with this, my point still stands. At best, what Oregon did was just as bad as OSU. Tressel lied to preserve his team for the season (competitive advantage on the field). What Oregon did was give large amounts of cash to a "Recruiter" to get highly sought after (5 star guys) out of Texas to Oregon, which is a competitive advantage on the field. And don't say you never know how these guys were going to pan out, the list that I remember off the top of my head included two 5 star RB's both one of whom was a huge cog in Oregon's system and success (LaMichael James) and the second of whom is doing exceptionally well on his own even though he transferred.
  
  Once again, what Oregon did is at least just as bad as OSU as far as trying to gain a competitive advantage by getting talented players on the field.

  
  Let me simplify this even further for you.
  
  Cheating for 5 already established stars >>>>>>>>>> cheating for high school kids
  
  You're implying, in your response, that every 5 star recruit pans out. To that I say LOL
  
  
  Look, I think the NCAA is absurd and ridiculous in an arbitrary way. But that doesn't mean that you can say that what Oregon did is as bad as what Ohio State, and that's what I disagree with you about.
• Laley23

  

  I still say they should just all leave the NCAA and start their own league.
• Fly4Fun

  

  lhslep134;1463032 wrote:Let me simplify this even further for you.
  
  Cheating for 5 already established stars >>>>>>>>>> cheating for high school kids
  
  You're implying, in your response, that every 5 star recruit pans out. To that I say LOL

  If you don't think 5 star recruits matter, then there is no talking with you regarding this. Oregon was PAYING a person to funnel kids to a specific school. This is exactly what recruiting rules are trying to prevent. The coaches were the people who created the initial problem. They were knowingly violating the rules from the very beginning.
  
  Tressel didn't start the OSU situation, but he certainly made it worse by lying. Bu he didn't go out of his way to try to violate the rules.
  
  At best, what Oregon did is just as bad as what OSU did. At worst, it is worse than what OSU did. For Oregon to not get a post-season ban is ridiculous.
• Fly4Fun

  

  Laley23;1463037 wrote:I still say they should just all leave the NCAA and start their own league.

  That's the direction the schools are going with the formation of super conferences. It will happen eventually.
• se-alum

  

  lhslep134;1463032 wrote:Let me simplify this even further for you.
  
  Cheating for 5 already established stars >>>>>>>>>> cheating for high school kids
  
  You're implying, in your response, that every 5 star recruit pans out. To that I say LOL
  
  
  Look, I think the NCAA is absurd and ridiculous in an arbitrary way. But that doesn't mean that you can say that what Oregon did is as bad as what Ohio State, and that's what I disagree with you about.

  LaMichael James gave Oregon a competitive advantage for at least 2 years, the stuff at OSU gave them and advantage for 1 year. IMO, the punishments should've have been almost equal. The biggest taboo in college football is paying recruits, and that is what Oregon(through the grapevine) did.
• se-alum

  

  Jay Bilas giving the NCAA hell over the wrist slap on Oregon compared to what was given to OSU, PSU, and USC.
• lhslep134

  

  Fly4Fun;1463042 wrote:If you don't think 5 star recruits matter, then there is no talking with you regarding this.

  
  First of all, I NEVER said nor implied that so GFY. Second of all, what I AM saying is that there's no guarantee that, individually, a 5 star recruit will pan out, is what YOU'RE implying.
  
  It is now clear where the FAIL in C4F comes from.
• lhslep134

  

  se-alum;1463046 wrote: The biggest taboo in college football is paying recruits, and that is what Oregon(through the grapevine) did.

  I suggest you read the report before claiming that Oregon paid recruits.
• WebFire

  I don't think paying money for recruits (whether to the recruit or a recruiting service) should be taken lightly.
• Fly4Fun

  

  lhslep134;1463089 wrote:First of all, I NEVER said nor implied that so GFY. Second of all, what I AM saying is that there's no guarantee that, individually, a 5 star recruit will pan out, is what YOU'RE implying.
  
  It is now clear where the FAIL in C4F comes from.

  And there is no guarantee that having your players come back will result in a championship season even assuming none of them get hurt.
  
  But, having players come back increases your chances of winning just like having 5 recruits funneled to your school increases your chances of winning.
• se-alum

  

  lhslep134;1463094 wrote:I suggest you read the report before claiming that Oregon paid recruits.

  So they paid them through a recruiting service, whatever. Even the national sports media sees this as a joke of a punishment.
• Dr Winston O'Boogie

  

  that_guy;1462869 wrote:The NCAA is a joke

  I disagree. I say Division 1-A college football and basketball specifically are the jokes. The non-revenue sports, which the NCAA also govern - are generally fine. THe money, ESPN, 24/7 news cycles, and the coaching compensation have made big time football and basketball and absolute disgrace. THese cheating findings are so commonplace now that they don't even turn heads. I agree with someone on here who said "may as well cheat". The system is so broken that it actually makes sense to cheat and remain competitive.
• se-alum

  

  The problem with "may as well cheat" is, you don't know which bi-polar ruling you're going to get from the NCAA.
• WebFire

  se-alum;1463128 wrote:The problem with "may as well cheat" is, you don't know which bi-polar ruling you're going to get from the NCAA.

  When was the last time a school was really affected by cheating punishments? It almost does pay to cheat. You get more long term positive affect from winning than you do long term negative affect from punishment. OSU is a great example of punishment having little affect.
• se-alum

  

  WebFire;1463136 wrote:When was the last time a school was really affected by cheating punishments? It almost does pay to cheat. You get more long term positive affect from winning than you do long term negative affect from punishment. OSU is a great example of punishment having little affect.

  USC has been affected by it. We will see with PSU, who I think was really screwed over by the NCAA. OSU being Urban Meyers dream job lessened the blow a bit, but I'm sure the school still took a significant financial hit with the bowl ban.
• WebFire

  se-alum;1463140 wrote:USC has been affected by it. We will see with PSU, who I think was really screwed over by the NCAA. OSU being Urban Meyers dream job lessened the blow a bit, but I'm sure the school still took a significant financial hit with the bowl ban.

  PSU I don't view as cheating as it didn't directly affect the on-field play. USC it did hurt, agreed. But they also had a more severe punishment, which the NCAA seems to not want to deal with anymore.
• HitsRus

  

  While most of the time the NCAA acts arbitrarily, Ohio State's case had to do with lying, which automatically distinguishes it.

  OMG...so 'lying' is worse than tens of thousands$ in payments and balatant disregard for a law? Exactly what I mean by arbitrary.
• vball10set

  WebFire;1463144 wrote:PSU I don't view as cheating as it didn't directly affect the on-field play. USC it did hurt, agreed. But they also had a more severe punishment, which the NCAA seems to not want to deal with anymore.

  This right here says it all, Webbie...the NCAA can't even police itself, so it wants no part in handing out any penalties with any teeth in them. It's absolutely pathetic.
• lhslep134

  

  HitsRus;1463152 wrote:OMG...so 'lying' is worse than tens of thousands$ in payments and balatant disregard for a law? Exactly what I mean by arbitrary.

  Well yeah that's kind of the point. The NCAA rules are arbitrary, no one is arguing otherwise. But Tressel broke them, and then lied about it, whereas Chip Kelly just broke them.
  
  I can't help you if you can't see the difference.
• Fly4Fun

  

  lhslep134;1463202 wrote:Well yeah that's kind of the point. The NCAA rules are arbitrary, no one is arguing otherwise. But Tressel broke them, and then lied about it, whereas Chip Kelly just broke them.
  
  I can't help you if you can't see the difference.

  A couple of things. Is lying about breaking the rules really worse than breaking the rules? I think it depends on the severity of the rule broken. The rules that Oregon broke in paying a person to funnel recruits to the school is one of the most fundamental rules about college recruiting. It goes against everything that there is in fair recruiting.
  
  Second, Chip Kelly had no reason to lie as he knew he was going to be gone. He knew his name was a hot commodity in the NFL. He knew that there would be no reason to lie as there was nothing to gain for him. There was no motivation to lie.
• vball10set

  Jim Tressel got caught in a lie and paid the ultimate price. Period. Chip Kelly is crooked as hell and jumped ship (ala Petey Carroll) prior to getting caught, and will pay no price. See how that works? :rolleyes: