Archive

SEC Logic

  • WebFire
    sleeper;1004498 wrote:Probably about the same amount of people who voted Alabama #2.
    Haha. Ok.
  • sleeper
    WebFire;1004505 wrote:Haha. Ok.
    Essentially, the idea behind this thread is that people want to make it seem that Alabama is a top 2 team in the country, and then in the same breath say "Well if OK ST would have made a FG against ISU then they would be the second best team in the country". SEC fans making this argument are speaking out of both sides of their mouth. How does a team missing a FG have any bearing on whether Alabama is a top 2 team in the country? It doesn't. It's logical fraud.
  • WebFire
    sleeper;1004512 wrote:Essentially, the idea behind this thread is that people want to make it seem that Alabama is a top 2 team in the country, and then in the same breath say "Well if OK ST would have made a FG against ISU then they would be the second best team in the country". SEC fans making this argument are speaking out of both sides of their mouth. How does a team missing a FG have any bearing on whether Alabama is a top 2 team in the country? It doesn't. It's logical fraud.
    I think you are trying to hard to justify your thoughts. It's simple. The 2nd best team in the country doesn't lose to a 6-6 ISU team. Period. And had they made the field goal, I think you'd still have people saying they barely beat ISU and using that against them. We've seen it with other teams (so and so barely beat so and so) and argument for and against their ranking.
  • sleeper
    WebFire;1004518 wrote:I think you are trying to hard to justify your thoughts. It's simple. The 2nd best team in the country doesn't lose to a 6-6 ISU team. Period. And had they made the field goal, I think you'd still have people saying they barely beat ISU and using that against them. We've seen it with other teams (so and so barely beat so and so) and argument for and against their ranking.
    I don't think anyone in this thread besides maybe FFT and I actually understand what I'm talking about. You clearly don't get it either. I will try to come up with another way to explain this, give me some time.
  • vball10set
    If the human element is at all relevant here, then this must be taken into consideration as well

    http://newsok.com/osu-coaches-kurt-budke-miranda-serna-and-two-people-die-in-plane-crash/article/3624385
  • karen lotz
    http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/28/girlfriend-of-tide-football-player-reportedly-killed-in-tornado/
  • vball10set
    Refresh my memory--did that happen the day before they played LSU? week before? month before? And don't give me that garbage about driving past the carnage either, 'cause it didn't hold up in the last thread.
  • karen lotz
    vball10set;1004533 wrote:Refresh my memory--did that happen the day before they played LSU? week before? month before? And don't give me that garbage about driving past the carnage either, 'cause it didn't hold up in the last thread either.

    So the human element can only be applied if it happens the day before? -- just sayin'
  • fan_from_texas
    WebFire;1004491 wrote:But the records are determined by the play on the field. How can they not be part of the equation in determining who is best?

    You could use the Philly Eagles this year. If you looked at the roster, many thought they were the best team this year? But their play on the field, and hence their record, says they are not the best. How many people would send Philly to the Super Bowl?
    The records are, of course, indicative of quality. Here's an example:

    You have a coin. You flip it 10 times. It lands on heads 7 times. Would you be 70% certain that if you flipped it again, it'd land on heads? Of course you wouldn't--that'd be stupid. If you flipped the coin a million times, the odds are overhwelmingly good that it would revert to its "true" nature (of 50%). If we flipped the coin a million times and it was heads 70% of the time, then we’d say that we have a weighted coin, and it’s “true heads value” is 70%.

    That's what we're dealing with here with teams (but trying to figure out "best" instead of "true heads value"). We've flipped the coin 12 times. If we could flip it a million times and have every time play every other team dozens of times, we’d be able to figure out the exact weighting of the coins. But we can’t. So if the goal is to figure out which coin, when flipped, has the highest chance of coming up heads (that is, is the “best” coin), then the 12 flips are very helpful, and they give us an idea, but they’re too small a sample size to make a definitive statement.

    If you flip a coin 12 times, and it comes up tails 12 times, the odds are very, very good that it isn’t a 90% heads-weighted coin. But you can’t be absolutely certain of that based on such a small sample set, either.
  • vball10set
    karen lotz;1004537 wrote:So the human element can only be applied if it happens the day before? -- just sayin'
    In this case, yes :p :D :o
  • karen lotz
    also vball, where was the human element argument when OSU raced out to that 24-7 lead? Did Iowa State show a video tribute to the victims of the plane crash on the jumbotron at that point?
  • vball10set
    I wish I could answer that, karen...adrenaline maybe? Anyway, my point wasn't to make an excuse for OSU losing that game, but to introduce that distraction into the conversation for argument sake.

    I'd love to see an OSU/LSU NC game, but OSU didn't get it done, so the result is what it is.
  • sleeper
    vball10set;1004554 wrote:I wish I could answer that, karen...adrenaline maybe? Anyway, my point wasn't to make an excuse for OSU losing that game, but to introduce that distraction into the conversation for argument sake.

    I'd love to see an OSU/LSU NC game, but OSU didn't get it done, so the result is what it is.
    Alabama didn't get it done either, the result is a fraud.
  • sleeper
    WebFire;1004014 wrote:Question...if Alabama was in another conference but their schedule the same, with 1 loss to LSU, would you still feel the same? Or are you hung up the SEC thing?
    I think you should have to win your own conference in order to play in the NCG. That is all.
  • vball10set
    sleeper;1004559 wrote:Alabama didn't get it done either, the result is a fraud.
    I can't argue that point, sleeper, but as I said, it is what it is.
  • WebFire
    fan_from_texas;1004539 wrote:The records are, of course, indicative of quality. Here's an example:

    You have a coin. You flip it 10 times. It lands on heads 7 times. Would you be 70% certain that if you flipped it again, it'd land on heads? Of course you wouldn't--that'd be stupid. If you flipped the coin a million times, the odds are overhwelmingly good that it would revert to its "true" nature (of 50%). If we flipped the coin a million times and it was heads 70% of the time, then we’d say that we have a weighted coin, and it’s “true heads value” is 70%.

    That's what we're dealing with here with teams (but trying to figure out "best" instead of "true heads value"). We've flipped the coin 12 times. If we could flip it a million times and have every time play every other team dozens of times, we’d be able to figure out the exact weighting of the coins. But we can’t. So if the goal is to figure out which coin, when flipped, has the highest chance of coming up heads (that is, is the “best” coin), then the 12 flips are very helpful, and they give us an idea, but they’re too small a sample size to make a definitive statement.

    If you flip a coin 12 times, and it comes up tails 12 times, the odds are very, very good that it isn’t a 90% heads-weighted coin. But you can’t be absolutely certain of that based on such a small sample set, either.
    I understand your point, but each and every game played is a weighted coin. Otherwise, we might as well not play at all and truly flip coins for trophies.
  • sleeper
    WebFire;1004571 wrote:I understand your point, but each and every game played is a weighted coin. Otherwise, we might as well not play at all and truly flip coins for trophies.
    Why play the games when the results on the field don't decide anything? LSU already beat Alabama, they are already the better team. Time to give someone else a shot.
  • sleeper
    Ok answer this simple question, do you believe that Alabama is a top 2 team in the country? Yes or No.
  • WebFire
    sleeper;1004572 wrote:Why play the games when the results on the field don't decide anything? LSU already beat Alabama, they are already the better team. Time to give someone else a shot.
    That's the thing...I don't necessarily disagree. My problem lies in this system we call BCS, which has the sole purpose of giving us the best 2 teams to play for the NCG. It did that. Everything else is irrelevant.

    Give us a playoff.
  • WebFire
    sleeper;1004572 wrote:Why play the games when the results on the field don't decide anything? LSU already beat Alabama, they are already the better team. Time to give someone else a shot.
    On the flipside, why does OSU "deserve" a chance when they lost to ISU. Isn't that decided on the field?
  • WebFire
    sleeper;1004574 wrote:Ok answer this simple question, do you believe that Alabama is a top 2 team in the country? Yes or No.
    Yes.
  • sleeper
    WebFire;1004576 wrote:That's the thing...I don't necessarily disagree. My problem lies in this system we call BCS, which has the sole purpose of giving us the best 2 teams to play for the NCG. It did that. Everything else is irrelevant.

    Give us a playoff.
    Once again, it definitely did not give us the best two teams. There's no way to prove that Bama is better than OK ST, but what can be proven is that LSU is better than Bama.
  • sleeper
    WebFire;1004581 wrote:Yes.
    Ok, then you agree that no matter if OK ST beats ISU by 100, Alabama is a top 2 team and goes to the NCG. This is the logical flaw in the argument. It doesn't matter what OKST does, it doesn't matter what Alabama does.
  • WebFire
    sleeper;1004582 wrote:Once again, it definitely did not give us the best two teams. There's no way to prove that Bama is better than OK ST, but what can be proven is that LSU is better than Bama.
    Your right, except for having Alabama and OSU play. Ding ding ding. A playoff.

    Since we can't do that, the BCS is the only thing we have to "prove" #1 and #2.
  • WebFire
    sleeper;1004584 wrote:Ok, then you agree that no matter if OK ST beats ISU by 100, Alabama is a top 2 team and goes to the NCG. This is the logical flaw in the argument. It doesn't matter what OKST does, it doesn't matter what Alabama does.
    No, I don't. Because OSU beating ISU by changes the dynamics of the equation.