Legacy of Joe Paterno

• krambman

  

  His legacy will be two fold. He will be remember as perhaps the greatest college football coach ever, who won more games at the D-1 level than anyone else (a record that almost certainly will never be broken), who won two national championships, who saw 885 coaching changes in college football during is tenure at Penn State, who coached against Woody, and Bo, and the Bear, and who was a staple of college football for 45 years. But much like Woody Hayes, his legacy will have a darker second chapter. He will also be remembered as someone who employed a pedophile, who knew about heinous acts of rape committed against young boys at his facility, and who covered it up for over a decade.
• Dr Winston O'Boogie

  

  If Penn State is in agreement with him finishing out the season, that tells me all I need to know. They don't get it at all. Paterno needs to retire right this second. There is nothing to be served by his finishing out the season except to say that football still trumps child rape at PSU.
• queencitybuckeye

  He should step down immediately for everyone's good IMO. In any case, the university should decline any bowl invitations. Play the scheduled games and shut it down.
• dwccrew

  

  krambman;964795 wrote: But much like Woody Hayes, his legacy will have a darker second chapter where he will be remembered as someone who employed a pedophile, who knew about heinous acts of rape committed against young boys at his facility, and who covered it up for over a decade.

  Didn't realize Woody employed a pedophile. I always thought he just punched an opposing player.
• krambman

  

  Paterno's comments at his home last night and his press release this morning are the only words from the university regarding this issue in almost four days, and it appears that this statement was released by JoePa and not through the school, so it isn't even an official statement from the university. Penn State could not be handling this more poorly from an institutional standpoint. They need to make a statement.
  
  It's also past time for Graham Spanier to step down as president as well. That should have happened before Paterno announced his retirement.
• dwccrew

  

  queencitybuckeye;964801 wrote:He should step down immediately for everyone's good IMO. In any case, the university should decline any bowl invitations. Play the scheduled games and shut it down.

  I actually disagree with this part of your post. Why punish the players for something they had no part in? JoePa should be punished, as anyone else that was involved should be.
• krambman

  

  dwccrew;964803 wrote:Didn't realize Woody employed a pedophile. I always thought he just punched an opposing player.

  Should have separated that as two sentences. I didn't mean that Woody employed a pedophile, but that both coaches have a darker second chapter to their legacy. I fixed it.
• Fab1b

  

  To compare any coaches actions to this situation, with the exception of perhaps the Baylor coach that covered up a murder, is absurd.
• queencitybuckeye

  dwccrew;964805 wrote:I actually disagree with this part of your post. Why punish the players for something they had no part in? JoePa should be punished, as anyone else that was involved should be.

  Punishing the players is obviously not my intent, but whether Paterno is the coach or not, business as usual sends a bad message IMO. In situations like these, there are always secondary victims (the players, the university community in general, etc.).
• dwccrew

  

  queencitybuckeye;964822 wrote:Punishing the players is obviously not my intent, but whether Paterno is the coach or not, business as usual sends a bad message IMO. In situations like these, there are always secondary victims (the players, the university community in general, etc.).

  I can agree with the latter part of your post. IMO, as long as the Board of Trustees fires all involved, they should still accept a bowl invite.
• vball10set

  queencitybuckeye;964822 wrote:Punishing the players is obviously not my intent, but whether Paterno is the coach or not, business as usual sends a bad message IMO. In situations like these, there are always secondary victims (the players, the university community in general, etc.).

  I know what you're saying, but I think if Paterno, and McQueary, resign immediately, the court of public opinion will be sympathetic to this year's team...jmo.
• queencitybuckeye

  vball10set;964828 wrote:I know what you're saying, but I think if Paterno, and McQueary, resign immediately, the court of public opinion will be sympathetic to this year's team...jmo.

  I don't believe that anyone is holding any of this against the kids, but if I'm associated with trying to sort this mess out, Penn State Football is the last phrase I'd want on anyone's lips in any context for a few months.
• sleeper

  

  He'll go down as the greatest coach in college football. These allegations will be nothing more than a footnote in a great career.
• vball10set

  queencitybuckeye;964836 wrote:I don't believe that anyone is holding any of this against the kids, but if I'm associated with trying to sort this mess out, Penn State Football is the last phrase I'd want on anyone's lips in any context for a few months.

  I agree, but try telling that to the fans at the stadium's they will visit (see The 'Shoe, 11/19)...it could get ugly, especially if JoePa and Ginger are within sight.
• krambman

  

  Fab1b;964818 wrote:To compare any coaches actions to this situation, with the exception of perhaps the Baylor coach that covered up a murder, is absurd.

  I'm assuming that this is, at least somewhat, directed at me. Again, I am not comparing his actions to that of Woody Hayes, just making the comparison that both will not only be remembered as great coaches, but will also be remembered for poor decisions that ended their careers.
• Mulva

  

  krambman;964773 wrote:Had he reported the incident to the authorities 10 years ago like the law mandates, then this wouldn't be an issue for him and his legacy.

  That isn't what the law mandates. He did what the law mandates.
  

  Tiernan;964783 wrote:The sheer repulsiveness of what was allowed to continue after he knew about it in '98 cancels out anything else this man ever accomplished. Harsh? You better damn well believe it's Harsh, dozens (maybe hundreds) of boys were sodomized because an old man wanted to save the reputation of himself, a football team and an old pervert buddy of his.

  The 1998 incident was reported directly by a parent to the police, and the district attorney determined that there wasn't a crime to prosecute. What was anyone at Penn State supposed to do regarding an incident that didn't involve them where charges weren't even filed? 2002 is a different story, but 1998 had nothing to do with anyone at the university outside of Sandusky.
  

  krambman;964795 wrote:His legacy will be two fold.

  This. Nothing about this changes his legacy as a football coach. It will change people's opinions of him as a man.
• Fab1b

  

  Also want to tell me that after the alleged incidents and after Sandusky retired he and JoPa never hung out? Never sat in an office together, each others homes, lunch, coffee, etc...?
• krambman

  

  Mulva;964865 wrote:That isn't what the law mandates. He did what the law mandates.

  He technically did what the law required. Here is what Pennsylvania state law says about reporting child abuse.
  

  (b) Staff members of public or private agencies, institutions and facilities. Licensees who are staff members of a medical or other public or private institution, school, facility or agency, and who, in the course of their employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall immediately notify the person in charge of the institution, school facility or agency or the designated agent of the person in charge when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse. Upon notification by the licensee, the person in charge or the designated agent shall assume the responsibility and have the legal obligation to report or cause a report to be made in accordance with subsections (a), (c) and (d).
  (c) Reporting procedure. Reports of suspected child abuse shall be made by telephone and by written report.
  (1) Oral reports. Oral reports of suspected child abuse shall be made immediately by telephone to ChildLine, (800) 932-0313.
  (2) Written reports. Written reports shall be made within 48 hours after the oral report is made by telephone. Written reports shall be made on forms available from a county children and youth social service agency.
  

  While he did report it to his supervisor, you could argue that as the head coach he himself was in a supervisory role significant enough that he should have called the hotline and reported the incident himself. It was one of his coaches that informed him about it and it was one of his coaches that was involved. He was the person in charge of that school facility. Also, I would think that if your report it to the person in charge and they do not take the proper action on the suspected abuse then you would still be held responsible to report it.
• Skyhook79

  

  krambman;964891 wrote:He technically did what the law required. Here is what Pennsylvania state law says about reporting child abuse.
  
  
  
  While he did report it to his supervisor, you could argue that as the head coach he himself was in a supervisory role significant enough that he should have called the hotline and reported the incident himself. It was one of his coaches that informed him about it and it was one of his coaches that was involved. He was the person in charge of that school facility. Also, I would think that if your report it to the person in charge and they do not take the proper action on the suspected abuse then you would still be held responsible to report it.

  The law you just pasted is why the 2 superiors to JoePa (who he told) are being charged criminally and JoePa isn't.
• Mulva

  

  krambman;964891 wrote:It was one of his coaches that informed him about it and it was one of his coaches that was involved.

  No, it was one of his ex-coaches that was involved. He was no longer a member of the Penn State football program.
  

  krambman;964891 wrote:Also, I would think that if your report it to the person in charge and they do not take the proper action on the suspected abuse then you would still be held responsible to report it.

  Clearly that isn't the case legally since he's been cleared. And you were talking about what the "law" mandates, so that's all I was basing it on.
• queencitybuckeye

  That he (probably) didn't violate the law is all well and good, but what is not seriously arguable is that he could have taken actions that would have prevented additional victims of the monster Sandusky, and he did not. That's his legacy.
• Skyhook79

  

  Heretic;964743 wrote:Well, Skyhook does seem to be pretty religious. And with some branches of the church, "turning a blind eye to child molesting to maintain pristine image" is pretty much as big a part of the regular routine as going to church on Sunday, so I can understand why he'd not have anything negative to say about Joe's legacy. Good enough for the church, good enough for JoePa.

  No, I happen to believe in Due Process (the law) and apparently you do not.
• dlazz

  queencitybuckeye;964906 wrote:That he (probably) didn't violate the law is all well and good, but what is not seriously arguable is that he could have taken actions that would have prevented additional victims of the monster Sandusky, and he did not. That's his legacy.

  This. His legacy is tarnished.
• Tiernan

  Dispicable that Pedi State University students "rallied in support" of covering up child rape on JoePa's lawn last night. Then Joe said, "Let's pray for the victims...or whatever they are being called..." First of all praying today for an act of sodomy that occurred in 1998 probably ain't doing the "victim" much good today. Secondly not claiming complete culpability for knowing about these heinous acts is cowardly. I hope he is on the sidelines in The Shoe next week and OSU students bring an avalanche of abuse down on hime and the entire Pedi State team.
• gorocks99

  

  lol, yes, lets abuse the players