Penn State planning for Paterno's departure amid scandal

• Tiernan

  ^
  ihslep134 is self-employed...so that would be his house where its happening!
• lhslep134

  

  Tiernan;965122 wrote:^
  ihslep134 is self-employed...so that would be his house where its happening!

  Exactly. Keeping all my rapes in house.
• karen lotz

  

  lhslep134;964995 wrote:Joe Pa isn't the boss. The AD and university President are the bosses.

  
  You are a clown if you truly believe that.
• Tiernan

  Joe Pa is a demi-God in Happy Valley. He established the culture that prevented McQueary from going directly to the police (if) he had any thoughts at all about keeping his job that is.
• 2kool4skool

  

  There's good and bad news for Paterno.
  
  The bad news: he will shamefully retire at the end of the season. Destroying his legacy and being forced to live out the rest of his days with the knowledge his apathy resulted in additional children being raped.
  
  BUT on the bright side, he has a core group of fans who will stand by him. Because after all, they know more about proper protocol and ethical duty than the CHIEF OF POLICE who worked the case.
• vball10set

  karen lotz;965144 wrote:You are a clown if you truly believe that.

  damn Lotz, I actually rep'd ya' on this
• Tiernan

  Something that seems to be getting lost in all this is...how big of a pussy was McQueary when he actually sees Sandusky doing the kid and doesn't immediately walk into that shower and cold - cock the old man and then get the kid outta there to a safe place?
• FatHobbit

  

  Tiernan;965182 wrote:Something that seems to be getting lost in all this is...how big of a pussy was McQueary when he actually sees Sandusky doing the kid and doesn't immediately walk into that shower and cold - cock the old man and then get the kid outta there to a safe place?

  McQueary played at 6'4" and 213 lbs. Maybe he was afraid he would get his ass kicked? (or worse)
• Timber

  Tiernan;965182 wrote:Something that seems to be getting lost in all this is...how big of a pussy was McQueary when he actually sees Sandusky doing the kid and doesn't immediately walk into that shower and cold - cock the old man and then get the kid outta there to a safe place?

  Not defending Coach Paterno or anything about this terrible situation, but according to Greenie on Mike/Mike:
  McQueary, Sandusky's kids and Paterno's kids were all childhood friends, who hung out at each other's homes, etc. Can you imagine walking into a locker room and finding one of your friends Father, having anal sex with a kid approx. 10 years old. I think many would be completely in shock... and may find it difficult to know what the "right" thing is to do. Most all of us would like to think we would handle it like men, and stop the event from happening, call the Police, call the Head Coach, the AD, the University President, etc.
  
  Not so sure all of you would do this.
• vball10set

  Timber;965218 wrote:Not defending Coach Paterno or anything about this terrible situation, but according to Greenie on Mike/Mike:
  McQueary, Sandusky's kids and Paterno's kids were all childhood friends, who hung out at each other's homes, etc. Can you imagine walking into a locker room and finding one of your friends Father, having anal sex with a kid approx. 10 years old. I think many would be completely in shock... and may find it difficult to know what the "right" thing is to do. Most all of us would like to think we would handle it like men, and stop the event from happening, call the Police, call the Head Coach, the AD, the University President, etc.
  
  Not so sure all of you would do this.

  good post with a different perspective--reps
• Tiernan

  Timber;965218 wrote:Not so sure all of you would do this.

  Not sure you would stop a kid being raped? Uh...I'm pretty sure I would no matter who was doing it.
• enigmaax

  lhslep134;965073 wrote:Do you realize that's a qualified statement? He wishes he would (NOT SHOULD) have done more due to the ineptitude of his superiors (hence why his superiors are legally liable). Had he known his superiors would have completely dropped the ball, then for all we know, he would have done more. But, you have to assume that your superiors will handle the situation in the best way possible. If you don't, then the hierarchy of command is a dead concept. Last time I checked, the concept still exists.

  I'm normally a benefit of doubt sort of person. In this case, Paterno's own testimony and statements have really soured me on his stance. For the record, I believe he should resign/be removed immediately. He's not a criminal, but he's not the leader that goes with his stature. A few of the things that bother me that I think your stance completely overlooks:
  
  -- Having buildings named after you, having complete control over when you resign/retire, being bigger than the school - you don't achieve these things nor accept the benefits of that stature by doing the minimum required. You accept that role and then when a sore subject comes up fall back on "I told my bosses so I did everything I can do". The guy transcended football in every way....except when it came time to determine whether or not he could potentially spare children from being raped by an old buddy. In that one instance, he was just a lowly employee on the food chain whose only obligation was to report it to his boss. Nobody should be buying that.
  -- The 1998 allegations were enough to end the guy's coaching career. When you make that move, you're accepting something is wrong. You can't go part way at that point. If it was enough to remove him from his position, it was enough to disassociate him from the school and the program. There is nobody who has more say in who is associated with Penn State or its football program than Joe Paterno. Again, you can't allow yourself to be bigger than the school right up until the point that you have to turn away someone that you don't trust enough to get rid of as a coach. And the fact that they celebrated the guy in their last game, knowing full well why it was his last game?
  -- Sandusky was told not to bring children around the school after the 2002 incident. So again, you either believe there's something wrong or you don't. You either say, "we trust that this isn't true" and the guy remains in good standing with no stipulations or you say, "we need to find out if there's more to this" and you report it. Paterno told his boss and was obviously aware that nothing was done, except telling the guy to go somewhere else if he wants to do that shit. If they didn't believe anything was wrong, why tell him he can't have kids around? Why not defend him? What Penn State, and Joe Paterno as the face of the school said in that is "we don't care what you do to kids on your own time, just don't take any chances on our turf." Horrible, horrible message.
  -- In Paterno's statement, he said, "With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more." What that means is, "since I'm now catching hell, I wish I had done more." Whether it is a matter of needing this public outcry to see that he did something wrong or if it is simply that he's trying to say the right thing to appease people, it is pathetic. The benefit of hindsight nine years later? I dare say that he would have never arrived at this "Wish to do more" without the threat of his legacy/reputation being questioned. I doubt most people are buying that he is sorry about anything other than having to deal with the rep hit.
  -- His focus is still almost entirely on himself. He doesn't want the school to spend another minute thinking about it? Yeah, he hasn't wanted anyone to think about it for nine years. He isn't doing the school any favors - if resigning to spare the school the trouble is some noble act, he'd do it immediately. "I feel like I screwed up, but I'm still going to do what I do because I can." Eh, another bad message.
  -- Paterno said, his goal has and always will be "to serve the best interest of the university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care." Still doesn't care about the victims - the university image is more important and Jerry's kids weren't entrusted to his care. So, this is all a tragedy and he's saddened, but his priorities are still the same. 1. Me. 2. University. 3. Anyone who is part of me or the university. If you're a helpless kid being raped in the shower, it isn't really his issue.
• Dr Winston O'Boogie

  

  sleeper;964965 wrote:Joe Pa is not "the boss". Especially since Sandusky was not an employee at the time the incident occurred.

  Sandusky had access to the football facilities as part of his retirement package. Paterno as head coach most certainly has the power to change whether or not a retired assistant coach could or should be in there. My calling him "boss" has to do with his position as the graduate assistant - Paterno is his boss. And as boss, an employee says they saw "horsing around" between a naked former coach and a little boy taking place in the football facility, you have an obligation to see that through. Sure it starts with reporting it to your superiors, which he did. But it should not have stopped there. First that grad assistant doesn't leave your office until you know the whole story. The grad assistant then either has to lie and cover up or say "rape". If he says "rape", you tell your bosses, "you call the police or I will".
• Mulva

  

  enigmaax;965250 wrote:-- Having buildings named after you

  That reminded me of something I saw on npr that I found particularly sadly ironic. May have already been mentioned on here.
  

  In early 2010, the university named a campus child care center after Schultz

• sleeper

  

  Dr Winston O'Boogie;965251 wrote:Sandusky had access to the football facilities as part of his retirement package. Paterno as head coach most certainly has the power to change whether or not a retired assistant coach could or should be in there. My calling him "boss" has to do with his position as the graduate assistant - Paterno is his boss. And as boss, an employee says they saw "horsing around" between a naked former coach and a little boy taking place in the football facility, you have an obligation to see that through. Sure it starts with reporting it to your superiors, which he did. But it should not have stopped there. First that grad assistant doesn't leave your office until you know the whole story. The grad assistant then either has to lie and cover up or say "rape". If he says "rape", you tell your bosses, "you call the police or I will".

  You live in a fantasy land. Paterno is not the boss of Penn State. In your twisted world, he is, but in reality, you know the one that actually matters, Paterno is not the boss.
  
  And you're right, Paterno should take any and all accusations and run to the media. Ruin a potentially innocents mans life just because someone alleged something to have happened. If the media won't listen, set off a nuclear weapon because someone got raped. You're being unreasonable.
• Heretic

  

  enigmaax;965250 wrote:-- Having buildings named after you, having complete control over when you resign/retire, being bigger than the school - you don't achieve these things nor accept the benefits of that stature by doing the minimum required. You accept that role and then when a sore subject comes up fall back on "I told my bosses so I did everything I can do". The guy transcended football in every way....except when it came time to determine whether or not he could potentially spare children from being raped by an old buddy. In that one instance, he was just a lowly employee on the food chain whose only obligation was to report it to his boss. Nobody should be buying that.

  That's the part that gets me the most, especially with people playing the "he went to his superiors, so he's cleared" card and meaning not just legally (which is true), but also ethically. From today's Pat Forde Yahoo column, there's a pretty parallel point. http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=pf-forde_paterno_finale_wont_be_fond110911
  

  If a graceful exit by a coaching icon seems less common all the time, that’s probably because it is. Woody Hayes, Bob Knight – now Joe Paterno. All left their dream jobs under pressure and under a career-obscuring cloud.
  
  Perhaps not coincidentally, all had consolidated a remarkable amount of power in their positions. They had grown so big and powerful that they did as they pleased and basically answered to no one.
  As the years went by, Paterno wired Penn State with his people: athletic director Tim Curley played for him at the school; son Jay Paterno assumed a key position on the coaching staff; media liaison Guido D’Elia worked directly with Paterno, circumventing school media relations director Jeff Nelson; several members of the Board of Trustees are friends of the coach. It became rather clear that none of these people could tell Paterno what to do. There were no checks and balances in the Penn State football program, which is usually the way powerful coaches want it.
  Is it any wonder that when administrators approached Paterno urging retirement earlier this decade, he simply blew them off and kept coaching? The fact that he’s still coaching at this age, after a string of infirmities, is prima facie evidence of the enabling done by those around him. Taking care of the coach – and the program’s pristine image – seems to have become the guiding force at Penn State. In talking Tuesday to someone close to the Paterno family, it seems that JoePa’s support system attended to everything in an effort to allow him to simply coach football. The inference was that Paterno existed in something of a coaching bubble, reducing everything else in and around the program to low-level background noise.

  Especially the part towards the end. You could say the biggest bitch of the matter is that, as time went on after the initial incidents, it's conceivable that he was kept out of the loop as far as what Sandusky was doing. You know, a "keep the old man happy, close your mouth about shit around him" sort of thing. Where the primary question would be why a program would be entrusted to an old guy who needed a gazillion people to run things for him so he could handle the pure football side of thing.
• Skyhook79

  

  Lets look at the mentality of some on here:
  
  Casey Anthony knows her child has been missing for 30 days and tells no one and her decomposing body is found a few miles from her home=I'd hit/bang Casey anthony and would motor boat her awesome boobs.
  
  Joe Paterno tells not 1 but 2 superiors ,about an alleged act sexual in nature told to him by someone else, within 1 day=He should die a slow painful death after Bubba bends him over in prison.
  
  I didn't see 1/2 the outrage over a little girls henious death either known by her Mother or even committed by her Mother as we see with someone who didn't even have first hand knowledge of an alleged sex act on a minor who went to his superiors as soon as he found out.
• HitsRus

  

  Not defending Coach Paterno or anything about this terrible situation, but according to Greenie on Mike/Mike:
  McQueary, Sandusky's kids and Paterno's kids were all childhood friends, who hung out at each other's homes, etc. Can you imagine walking into a locker room and finding one of your friends Father, having anal sex with a kid approx. 10 years old. I think many would be completely in shock... and may find it difficult to know what the "right" thing is to do.

  I said something similar in post #64.....It's easy when your far away to see the black and white of the situation, but it becomes a lot grayer when the perp is a trusted friend, a close family member, etc. PSU would not be the first to try to handle the situation "in house".
• 2kool4skool

  

  Question for all those defending Paterno:
  
  Paterno says McQueary came to him and told him Sandusky was molesting a child in the shower. Paterno reports incident to AD but in the coming years knows Sandusky not only isn't in prison, but continues to use psu facilities and hang around kids.
  
  So in Paterno's mind, the logical conclusion is either the AD covered this up, or McQueary lied. If McQueary lied about something as serious as a coach raping a little boy, why did Paterno promote him over and over? If he knew nothing was done by the higher ups, why didn't Paterno do something?
• Terry_Tate

  

  Skyhook79;965321 wrote:Lets look at the mentality of some on here:
  
  Casey Anthony knows her child has been missing for 30 days and tells no one and her decomposing body is found a few miles from her home=I'd hit/bang Casey anthony and would motor boat her awesome boobs.
  
  Joe Paterno tells not 1 but 2 superiors ,about an alleged act sexual in nature told to him by someone else, within 1 day=He should die a slow painful death after Bubba bends him over in prison.
  
  I didn't see 1/2 the outrage over a little girls henious death either known by her Mother or even committed by her Mother as we see with someone who didn't even have first hand knowledge of an alleged sex act on a minor who went to his superiors as soon as he found out.

  That may be the mentality of a few, but the overwhelming majority just think Joe Paterno should be fired and nothing more. And if I remember right there was a crapton of outrage that Casey Anthony walked away from that. You are majorly exaggerating on this one.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  2kool4skool;965361 wrote:Question for all those defending Paterno:
  
  Paterno says McQueary came to him and told him Sandusky was molesting a child in the shower. Paterno reports incident to AD but in the coming years knows Sandusky not only isn't in prison, but continues to use psu facilities and hang around kids.
  
  So in Paterno's mind, the logical conclusion is either the AD covered this up, or McQueary lied. If McQueary lied about something as serious as a coach raping a little boy, why did Paterno promote him over and over? If he knew nothing was done by the higher ups, why didn't Paterno do something?

  Get that damn logic out of here.
• Skyhook79

  

  Terry_Tate;965368 wrote:That may be the mentality of a few, but the overwhelming majority just think Joe Paterno should be fired and nothing more. And if I remember right there was a crapton of outrage that Casey Anthony walked away from that. You are majorly exaggerating on this one.

  Are you sure? Here is one sample I found, I will post more later.
  
  
  07.07.2011 08:19 PM[RIGHT]#378[/RIGHT]
  
  2kool4skool
  
  Senior MemberJoin DateNov 2009Posts1,058vCash27,934Rep Power5
  [INDENT=5][INDENT]No one(here at least) thinks it needs to be like an episode of CSI. But they completely lacked any significant evidence other than the fact that a clearly crazy person from a crazy family acted differently than you'd expect a normal person to act.
  
  Maybe if the cops that got the original call(or the 2nd, or the 3rd, or the 4th) had actually done their job, rather than ignoring the callers' insistence that there was a dead child on the property for 4 months, then they'd have been able to piece the puzzle together a little better. Instead, it was just the first sign of incompetence from the law enforcement/prosecutions side that plagued the entire trial.
  
  If I had to guess, I would say she did it, but the reality is she did 3 years on some lousy misdemeanors, she should be let out ASAP.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Maybe if the Police did THEIR job in this case we wouldn't be here today. You will give Casey a pass on murdering a child but JoePa no way?[/INDENT]
  
  
  [/INDENT]
• 2kool4skool

  

  I don't give Casey a pass. Like I said in the post you quoted, she likely killed her kid, but unfortunately the police.handled the investigation poorly and there wasn't enough evidence to convict her for pre-meditated murder. The police in this case had information disclosed from them from people trying to protect a child rapist.Why are you rambling on about Casey Anthony and the morals of this forum? Stop deflecting.
• Big Gain

  Paterno's end of the season retirement could include 5 more games. How many press conferences does that mean will be cancelled? Can you imagine the thunderous booing and cat calls hailing down on the players and coaches? What in the hell will be discussed at Indianapolis and a Bowl Game. THE FIRST Big Ten Cahmpionship Game could be tarnished beyond repair for some time by Paterno if he shows his pitiful face in the stadium.
• Big Gain

  Paterno's end of the season retirement could include 5 more games. How many press conferences does that mean will be cancelled? Can you imagine the thunderous booing and cat calls hailing down on the players and coaches at away games? What in the hell will be discussed at Indianapolis and at a Bowl Game. THE FIRST Big Ten Championship Game could be tarnished beyond repair for some time by Paterno if he shows his pitiful face in the stadium.