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• Hb31187

  

  se-alum;697427 wrote:lol @ Morris and Thompson. As a PG Craft is better than Battle(I don't think Battle is technically even the PG).

  Id say theyre pretty damn close
  
  http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=22-michael-thompson&p1=aaron-craft&p2=darius-morris
• ytownfootball

  

  lhslep134;697433 wrote:I understand that BUT:
  
  OSU w/o Craft: No national championship chance
  OSU w/o Sully: No national championship chance
  
  So it would seem pretty apparent to me they have pretty similar value in the grand scheme of things even if not on a play-by-play or minute-to-minute basis.

  
  I'm not so sure we can say that without Craft we have no shot at a title. We obviously have a better shot with him, but we can play decent ball without him too. Were he not available, someone else could fill the spot and still produce, not so much w/out Sully.
• se-alum

  

  This "who's more valuable" argument is ridiculous. None of us know what the outcome would be if we had one of them and not the other. Let's just enjoy having them both!!
• lhslep134

  

  se-alum;697427 wrote:lol @ Morris and Thompson. As a PG Craft is better than Battle(I don't think Battle is technically even the PG).

  
  This. And McCamey? Craft limited him to 20 pts on 7-21 shooting and 9 turnovers to only 11 assists in their 2 meetings.
• lhslep134

  

  ytownfootball;697445 wrote:I'm not so sure we can say that without Craft we have no shot at a title. We obviously have a better shot with him, but we can play decent ball without him too. Were he not available, someone else could fill the spot and still produce, not so much w/out Sully.

  
  No. We had the POY last year and didn't do anything because we didn't have a PG. PG is the most important position on the floor, so I completely disagree about your statement that someone could fill the spot and still produce. If it was that easy, we would have made it a lot further last year.
• Hb31187

  

  lhslep134;697449 wrote:This. And McCamey? Craft limited him to 20 pts on 7-21 shooting and 9 turnovers to only 11 assists.

  
  So because Mccamey had a bad game against craft it means hes overall worse, not that he had a bad game?
  
  http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=demetri-mccamey&p1=aaron-craft look at those stats and tell me the two arent close.
  
  Im not saying craft is bad, or that all these people are better than Craft. I said there are 6-7 just as good, not better, but at least on par with him. Hes a good player and plays tough defense...but hes not exactly an all american like some of you make him out to be
  
  
  Btw....cant wait for the "The things Craft does for this team are so much more important than what shows up in the score book" such a cliche statement used about sooooo many players
• ytownfootball

  

  lhslep134;697451 wrote:No. We had the POY last year and didn't do anything because we didn't have a PG. PG is the most important position on the floor, so I completely disagree about your statement that someone could fill the spot and still produce. If it was that easy, we would have made it a lot further last year.

  
  But we didn't have the post...lol
  
  Kinda just proved the point
• lhslep134

  

  ytownfootball;697456 wrote:But we didn't have the post...lol
  
  Kinda just proved the point

  
  So you're saying the 5 is as important a position as a 1? Maybe if you have a once in a generation elite 5 (such as Oden), but Sully is not that. Gifted? Yes, but enough so that the 5 is more important than the 1? No freaking way.
• lhslep134

  

  Hb31187;697454 wrote:
  .but hes not exactly an all american like some of you make him out to be

  
  Not saying he's an all-american, or anywhere near as talented as Sully. But he's a true, skilled 1 (like McCamey), not a combo guard like the majority of college point guards (Battle, Taylor, etc.), and THAT makes him just as valuable as Sully IMO.
• Hb31187

  

  lhslep134;697461 wrote:Not saying he's an all-american, or anywhere near as talented as Sully. But he's a true 1 (like McCamey), not a combo guard like the majority of college point guards (Battle, Taylor, etc.), and THAT is just as valuable as Sully.

  
  If you guys ran a lot of sets, like a Northwestern or something like that id agree. But you guys have a pretty wide open offense and all of your guards can initiate the offense and pass fairly well. So im just not sold on him being irreplaceable(at least on the offensive end, his D is very good)
• lhslep134

  

  Hb31187;697462 wrote:If you guys ran a lot of sets, like a Northwestern or something like that id agree. But you guys have a pretty wide open offense and all of your guards can initiate the offense and pass fairly well. So im just not sold on him being irreplaceable(at least on the offensive end, his D is very good)

  
  Right now you're right. But come tournament time when teams slow down the pace against fast paced teams (like us), you'll see his value.
• ytownfootball

  

  lhslep134;697459 wrote:So you're saying the 5 is as important a position as a 1? Maybe if you have a once in a generation elite 5 (such as Oden), but Sully is not that. Gifted? Yes, but enough so that the 5 is more important than the 1? No freaking way.

  
  We're going to disagree on this, but I'll give my 2 cents anyway. Oden was much better defensively, but Jared is a much more effective post player offensively in as much as when the D collapses on him, he finds the open man with ease, Oden would force things offensively going to the hole. That's fine. But with Sully in there, his ability to score, draw fouls, dish to the open look (especially with our shooters now) makes him more valuable than any one that we have, we don't have any slasher/dishers that go consistently. Sully opens up looks for everyone else and balances our offense completely.
• lhslep134

  

  ytownfootball;697466 wrote:We're going to disagree on this, but I'll give my 2 cents anyway. Oden was much better defensively, but Jared is a much more effective post player offensively in as much as when the D collapses on him, he finds the open man with ease, Oden would force things offensively going to the hole. That's fine. But with Sully in there, his ability to score, draw fouls, dish to the open look (especially with our shooters now) makes him more valuable than any one that we have, we don't have any slasher/dishers that go consistently. Sully opens up looks for everyone else and balances our offense completely.

  
  http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=jared-sullinger&p1=greg-oden
  
  
  Statistics say it's a lot closer than you think. I stand by my point that a 1 is more valuable than a 5 unless we're talking about a Tim Duncan or a Greg Oden (someone who is elite both offensively and defensively).
• ytownfootball

  

  lhslep134;697471 wrote:http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=jared-sullinger&p1=greg-oden
  
  
  Statistics say it's a lot closer than you think. I stand by my point that a 1 is more valuable than a 5 unless we're talking about a Tim Duncan or a Greg Oden (someone who is elite both offensively and defensively).

  
  A lot closer than I think? You mean a lot closer than YOU think...lol
  
  Looking at those stats they're statistically in a dead heat, but you claim him (Sully) to not be elite?
• se-alum

  

  Also, over the last 5 games Craft has been giving the Bucks nearly 5 more possessions a game than they would otherwise get. Something like that is huge come tourney time.
• thedynasty1998

  

  lhslep134;697471 wrote:http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=jared-sullinger&p1=greg-oden
  
  
  Statistics say it's a lot closer than you think. I stand by my point that a 1 is more valuable than a 5 unless we're talking about a Tim Duncan or a Greg Oden (someone who is elite both offensively and defensively).

  Dude, you are just wrong. Sullinger is as good of a player as there is in the country. We are arguing whether Craft is a top 5 PG in the Big 10.
• lhslep134

  

  ytownfootball;697482 wrote:A lot closer than I think? You mean a lot closer than YOU think...lol
  
  Looking at those stats they're statistically in a dead heat, but you claim him (Sully) to not be elite?

  
  Oden was elite because of his offense AND defense. Sully is very good because he's elite on offense and average to above average on defense.
• lhslep134

  

  thedynasty1998;697498 wrote:Sullinger is as good of a player as there is in the country.

  Correct. No one is denying that.
  

  thedynasty1998;697498 wrote:We are arguing whether Craft is a top 5 PG in the Big 10.

  Also correct. However, because a 1 is more important than a 5 (unless that 5 is elite, ie Duncan or Oden) their (Sully, Craft) importance to the team is pretty equal, regardless of skill level (in which Sully >> Craft).
• thedynasty1998

  

  Usually when one is considered a legitimate finalist for the NCAA POY award, they are considered an elite college player, but maybe that's just me.
  
  Without Craft OSU is still a top 10 team. Without Sullinger they are a borderline top 25 team.
• sleeper

  

  Sullinger is more important than craft. Without either, this team would be on the bubble.
• wkfan

  Morris on the 2nd team is an absolute joke.
• lhslep134

  

  Dynasty,
  
  I'm talking once or twice in a generation elite. Oden was that. Sully is not.
• sleeper

  

  lhslep134;697561 wrote:Dynasty,
  
  I'm talking once or twice in a generation elite. Oden was that. Sully is not.

  
  Why?
• vball10set

  Hb31187;697322 wrote:Theres like 6 or 7 other guards with Crafts ball handling skills at pg in the big 10. There is 1 other big with a skill set even close to Sullys in the big 10

  
  are you really that dense, or has your hatred for OSU blinded you that badly?
• devil1197

  Craft should be the DPOY for the B10 imo. His defense is top notch and has shut down some of the better scorer's in the B10.
  
  Sully is the POY and 1st teamer.
  
  Buford should be 2nd team.
  
  Diebler/Lighty 3rd team.