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Do you guys think OSU is a GREAT team?

  • ytownfootball
    The "greatness" label can only be applied in light of a teams entire body of work. Fun talking points for ESPN douche bags who make a living off shit like that but that's about it.
  • SportsAndLady
    Prescott;663238 wrote:Derrick Rose was their PG and their leader.

    There is nothing wrong with being labeled as very good. I think the word great should be reserved for truly great teams.

    You said they were freshman led...they were not freshman led, they just happened to have a really good freshman on their team.

    So if "great" should only be labeled for truly great teams, what is your definition of a great team? KU was 30-3, a #1 seed, conference reg. season and conf. champions, beat a UNC team that many labeled the best team in YEARS by 20+ points in the final four, and then won the championship in what was a final four consisting of all #1 seeds for the first time ever.

    What else could you possibly want? 3 less meaningless regular season losses?
  • Fly4Fun
    This whole topic speaks back to what I posted this past fall in the CFB Forum. The question of whether Team A beats Team B, and Team B beats Team C, is A > C? What if Team C beats A, what does that mean?

    The whole post and subsequent explanation post was to attack the single elimination tournament format. It isn't a flawless system for determining the best team. It has its faults. Sometimes match ups matter, or locations... or sometimes teams have an off day.

    Winning a single elimination tournament isn't a requirement to be great. But failing to win one doesn't also mean a team isn't great.

    Too many people buy into the logic of single elimination tournaments being flawless, but when the principals are broken down completely disagree with its core philosophy.
  • Fly4Fun
    And just for the record... this talk about "great" teams is just verbal masturbation to get ratings for ESPN.

    Are we talking about great team of all time? Great team for the year against competition? Great team for the program? The whole discussion is so filled with abstract concepts that you can say whatever you want and be correct but because you're saying things so abstractly it frustrates people so they get riled up to watch it or respond to it.
  • ytownfootball
    It's still a better barometer than anything else employed.
  • Fly4Fun
    ytownfootball;663294 wrote:It's still a better barometer than anything else employed.

    I disagree with that.

    I think taking into account a whole seasons worth of games is more meaningful than a 4 week period which only accounts for roughly 20% of an entire schedule...
  • ytownfootball
    In terms of actually crowning a champion is concerned, most will agree the NCAA bb tourney is legit, as opposed to the BCS.

    There really isn't another high profile comparison to go on, but for the sake of staying on track thread wise I'll leave it at that. :)
  • SportsAndLady
    ytownfootball;663314 wrote:In terms of actually crowning a champion is concerned, most will agree the NCAA bb tourney is legit, as opposed to the BCS.

    I wouldn't agree with that.

    I think the BCS has done a great job crowning the best team in college football.
  • ytownfootball
    SportsAndLady;663368 wrote:I wouldn't agree with that.

    I think the BCS has done a great job crowning the best team in college football.

    I do too, but most want a play-off thus the comment.
  • Prescott
    You said they were freshman led...they were not freshman led,

    How do you know?? Were you at their practices, in their huddles..... leaders don't have to be upperclassmen. I would say that the player who controls the ball the way Rose did was the leader of that team.
  • SportsAndLady
    Prescott;663426 wrote:How do you know?? Were you at their practices, in their huddles..... leaders don't have to be upperclassmen. I would say that the player who controls the ball the way Rose did was the leader of that team.

    Being freshman led, and having a freshman leader are two completely different things.

    UK last year was freshman led, because the majority of their production came from freshman. Was Derrick Rose Memphis' leader? I don't know, like you said I was not in the huddles. But even if he was, that does not make that team freshman led. 87% of their players were upperclassman.
  • se-alum
    SportsAndLady;663578 wrote:Being freshman led, and having a freshman leader are two completely different things.

    UK last year was freshman led, because the majority of their production came from freshman. Was Derrick Rose Memphis' leader? I don't know, like you said I was not in the huddles. But even if he was, that does not make that team freshman led. 87% of their players were upperclassman.

    Without being led by Rose, Memphis doesn't get anywhere near the Final Four that year. With that being said, having a Freshman that is a good as Rose, doesn't make Kansas' run any less impressive. He was one of the top 3 players in college basketball, whether he was a Freshman or not.
  • Little Danny
    I think this thread is premature. Come see me after the NCAA tournament.
  • Mulva
    2008-2009 UNC was the last 'great' team in my opinion. They were a unanimous preseason #1, went 34-4 and steamrolled through the NCAA tourney.

    To answer the original question, I think OSU is very good, but not great. I would still take the field over the Buckeyes to win a national title. In my opinion a 'great' team should be a clear favorite to win it all.
  • Midstate01
    ccrunner609;663954 wrote:Like most of the Duke haters....since OSU isnt in the Big East, they cant be great.

    Solid point!
  • Tiger2003
    They have the oppertunity to be great. But right now they are just a very good basketball team.
  • lhslep134
    Little Danny;663794 wrote:I think this thread is premature. Come see me after the NCAA tournament.

    You're too result oriented for what I'm asking in this thread.

    Is this a great team? I think both OSU and Duke (w/ healthy Irving) are great teams this year and obviously only one of them can win the championship.
  • ytownfootball
    In terms of Ohio State history they are indeed great.

    I don't want to label them a great team overall just because I feel in doing so I would somehow jinx it. Eff that, I'll just ride it out and see how it goes. ;)
  • Prescott
    Being freshman led, and having a freshman leader are two completely different things.
    Let me see. Rose was a freshman leader, but Memphis wasn't led by that freshman leader. Okay. You win.
  • ptown_trojans_1
    It's a great team, but so is Texas and Kansas, maybe Pitt too.
    Still, honestly, I could see this team losing up to 3 games by the start of the tournament.
    We will really know what this team is made up in about 3 weeks.
  • OQB
    OSU is a good team, but I think they need to lose a game before the March Madness starts...knock them down a few steps and give them a reason to get pissed off and not let anyone else get in the way of a national championship.

    I would rather have OSU lose a game and win the championship, than have an undefeated team get knocked out early.
  • september63
    The game vs Northwestern should have been a coaching moment. They won but Motta teaches and coaches them like a loss. They dont need a loss to knock them down a notch if he is coaching like he should. Will they win it all? I dunno, but losing one between here and there wouldnt be helping them at this point.
  • reclegend22
    I'm bored (clearly) while watching the Lakers, so read if you want. Don't otherwise. Haha.

    If I had to rank the truly great, most remarkable teams of the last 10 years, that list would consist of 2001 Duke, 2002 Maryland, 2005 North Carolina and 2008 Kansas. Greatness shares rare company, and I believe only four teams since the beginning of 2000 are even worthy of consideration. Perhaps fewer. But, in order to make a list, there must be a list, so here are my choices and a brief explanation of those teams' highlights. (UConn of 2004 and Florida of 2007 were loaded with record NBA talent and each won national titles, but UConn lost six games and Florida five, including a 1-3 stretch for the Gators to end the regular season. That leaves these two teams on the outside looking in.)

    Maryland - After a visit to the Final Four in 2001, the 2002 Terrapins finished 15-1 in the ACC and 32-4 overall on their way to a national championship. Led by First Team All-American Juan Dixon, Maryland featured four NBA players on its roster (Steve Blake, Chris Wilcox, Lonny Baxter and Dixon). This was a great basketball team, one of the best in ACC history.

    Duke - The Blue Devils' top two players, Shane Battier and Jason Williams, were both national player of the year award winners in 2001 (Battier the Naismith, Wooden and Rupp, and Williams the NABC. In addition to future NBA members Chris Duhon, Mike Dunleavy and Carlos Boozer, Duke began the season ranked No. 1, finished 35-4 with ACC and national titles and featured five guys who would go on to play in the League. Not only did Duke win the national championship despite losing its anchor big man, Carlos Boozer, to a broken foot a week before the regular season concluded (Boozer eventually returned in the Final Four), the Blue Devils did so by beating Arizona, the pre-season No. 2 team in the land that was comprised of future NBA players Gilbert Arenas, Jason Gardner, Richard Jefferson, Loren Woods and Luke Walton, in the championship game. This, in my view, is the most talented and prominent team of the last decade.

    North Carolina - Finishing 33-4 overall and 14-2 in the ACC, the 2005 national champion Tar Heels featured Raymond Felton, Sean May, Rashad McCants, Marvin Williams, David Noel and Reyshawn Terry, all of whom would go on to be drafted into the NBA. North Carolina began the season ranked No. 1, lost early to Santa Clara with Raymond Felton sidelined, which caused UNC to fall behind Illinois in the polls for most of the remainder of the year, and then reclaimed the country's top spot by defeating that powerful 37-1 Illinois team in the national final.

    Kansas - On their way to the 2008 national title, the Jayhawks won the most games of any NCAA champion in history (37 wins versus 3 losses), won a Big XII title and featured five players that would be drafted into the NBA that summer (Brandon Rush, Mario Chalmers, Darnell Jackson, Darrell Arthur and Sasha Kaun). Kansas stormed through the preseason national No. 1 and overall top seed, North Carolina, in the national semi-finals with an 84-66 victory, beginning the contest with a 40 to 12 lead. It wasn't a Final Four game. It was basketball's version of an execution. All of the above is enough to give this Kansas squad the nod of great.

    *Generally, in order to be considered great, I think it is a requirement for a team not only to take care of business in March by winning NCAA Tournament hardware, but also by winning its conference hardware. There are two exceptions to my list above, those being Maryland and North Carolina, which both fell short of Duke in the ACC during their respective national title-winning seasons.
  • wildcats20
    reclegend22;664363 wrote:I'm bored (clearly) while watching the Lakers, so read if you want. Don't otherwise. Haha.

    If I had to rank the truly great, most remarkable teams of the last 10 years, that list would consist of 2001 Duke, 2002 Maryland, 2005 North Carolina and 2008 Kansas. Greatness shares rare company, and I believe only four teams since the beginning of 2000 are even worthy of consideration. Perhaps fewer. But, in order to make a list, there must be a list, so here are my choices and a brief explanation of those teams' highlights. (UConn of 2004 and Florida of 2007 were loaded with record NBA talent and each won national titles, but UConn lost six games and Florida five, including a 1-3 stretch for the Gators to end the regular season. That leaves these two teams on the outside looking in.)

    Maryland - After a visit to the Final Four in 2001, the 2002 Terrapins finished 15-1 in the ACC and 32-4 overall on their way to a national championship. Led by First Team All-American Juan Dixon, Maryland featured four NBA players on its roster (Steve Blake, Chris Wilcox, Lonny Baxter and Dixon). This was a great basketball team, one of the best in ACC history.

    Duke - The Blue Devils' top two players, Shane Battier and Jason Williams, were both national player of the year award winners in 2001 (Battier the Naismith, Wooden and Rupp, and Williams the NABC. In addition to future NBA members Chris Duhon, Mike Dunleavy and Carlos Boozer, Duke began the season ranked No. 1, finished 35-4 with ACC and national titles and featured five guys who would go on to play in the League. Not only did Duke win the national championship despite losing its anchor big man, Carlos Boozer, to a broken foot a week before the regular season concluded (Boozer eventually returned in the Final Four), the Blue Devils did so by beating Arizona, the pre-season No. 2 team in the land that was comprised of future NBA players Gilbert Arenas, Jason Gardner, Richard Jefferson, Loren Woods and Luke Walton, in the championship game. This, in my view, is the most talented and prominent team of the last decade.

    North Carolina - Finishing 33-4 overall and 14-2 in the ACC, the 2005 national champion Tar Heels featured Raymond Felton, Sean May, Rashad McCants, Marvin Williams, David Noel and Reyshawn Terry, all of whom would go on to be drafted into the NBA. North Carolina began the season ranked No. 1, lost early to Santa Clara with Raymond Felton sidelined, which caused UNC to fall behind Illinois in the polls for most of the remainder of the year, and then reclaimed the country's top spot by defeating that powerful 37-1 Illinois team in the national final.

    Kansas - On their way to the 2008 national title, the Jayhawks won the most games of any NCAA champion in history (37 wins versus 3 losses), won a Big XII title and featured five players that would be drafted into the NBA that summer (Brandon Rush, Mario Chalmers, Darnell Jackson, Darrell Arthur and Sasha Kaun). Kansas stormed through the preseason national No. 1 and overall top seed, North Carolina, in the national semi-finals with an 84-66 victory, beginning the contest with a 40 to 12 lead. It wasn't a Final Four game. It was basketball's version of an execution. All of the above is enough to give this Kansas squad the nod of great.

    *Generally, in order to be considered great, I think it is a requirement for a team not only to take care of business in March by winning NCAA Tournament hardware, but also by winning its conference hardware. There are two exceptions to my list above, those being Maryland and North Carolina, which both fell short of Duke in the ACC during their respective national title-winning seasons.

    Enter all who think the ACC regular season champion is the ACC Champion.
  • reclegend22
    That was my goal with that part;) Haha. But the by-laws are the by-laws.