Most important player in the OSU lineup?

• ytownfootball

  

  When has Craft, Lighty or Buford ever been a threat to hit more than 2 or3 3's a game? Most teams will settle for them making 1-4, 2-6 shooting from behind the arc, you can't take that chance with Diebler getting open looks.
• Jester

  

  se-alum;605070 wrote:Diebler also brings leadership, passing, and steady defense.
  
  Tell me what you think would happen in a game against a good team if Diebler is out. Do you think the outside shooting of Buford and Lighty could get OSU a win?? Sully would be takin' out w/ a double team, and there would be no driving lanes for Lighty and Buford to get to the hoop.

  Diebler may bring some leadership, but Lighty is the leader of this team, IMO. Passing is alright, but nothing to get excited about. Defense depends on who he's playing. Against some lesser teams and maybe some Big Ten teams, yeah he can play good defense. But if it's the NCAA tourney and were going up against a top team, I'm not sure if he has the athleticism to stay with some of the players he might have to guard there.
  
  And yes, I do think Lighty and Buford, plus Craft who you didn't mention, would bring enough shooting to give OSU a win. You double Sully, you leave them wide open with plenty of time to knock down the shot. If you try to recover, they can go right by you and have several options of how to finish the play.
• se-alum

  

  If I were a coach, I wouldn't be closing out hard on Lighty or Buford(both under 35% behind the 3pt line). Lighty's game is getting to the basket, and Bufords game is mid-range jumpers. With Diebler out, it would be fairly easy to take the best part of their games away from them.
• Jester

  

  ytownfootball;605072 wrote:When has Craft, Lighty or Buford ever been a threat to hit more than 2 or3 3's a game? Most teams will settle for them making 1-4, 2-6 shooting from behind the arc, you can't take that chance with Diebler getting open looks.

  
  But who says you need more than that from those guys to win a game? There are a lot of top teams in the nation that win plenty of games, without having a spot up shooter like Diebler.
• se-alum

  

  Good discussion fellas! I'm off to BW's to watch the game. Go Bucks!!
• bigdaddy2003

  

  Sullinger
  Diebler
  Craft
  Lighty
  Buford
• ytownfootball

  

  Jester;605081 wrote:But who says you need more than that from those guys to win a game? There are a lot of top teams in the nation that win plenty of games, without having a spot up shooter like Diebler.

  
  It's not that that wouldn't be enough, it's that they don't need to be defended and accounted for like Diebler does. Every damn coach OSU faces is very aware of what dagger threes from a hot shooter does, and they have to account for it. They would be grateful not to defend him and account for his whereabouts on the floor. With Lighty, Buford and Craft they don't nearly have that issue.
• Jester

  

  I don't think any coach is going to say they wouldn't need to be defended. Is their ability to shoot the 3 on par with Diebler, no. But they're still capable of making it. In a close game, I don't think any coach is just going to tell his team to let Buford or someone else stand there and shoot a wide open 3. Diebler has had his struggles as well, and I don't think he's nearly as effective against athletic teams (see Florida State game).
• Jester

  

  And i'd just like to say i'm not trying to say Diebler isn't important at all. I'd probably list him 3rd of 4th in order of importance. Not to mention, it kind of depends on who OSU is playing. Obviously there are going to be games where having Diebler, Craft, Buford or somebody else isn't going to be as nearly as important as in other games.
• ytownfootball

  

  You agree that the need to defend Diebler is greater than that of Lighty, Craft or Buford, but don't see Dieblers value over not playing him instead of others...
  
  now I guess I'm confused as to what your issue is
• Jester

  

  Yes, I agree that you would need to defend Diebler's 3 ball more than the other's you mentioned. But other than the 3 ball, you don't need to defend anything really. I see other players upgrades in certain areas more important than the 3 point shooting Diebler brings. I personally believe those other players bring more to the table than Diebler does.
• CinciX12

  

  What he is trying to say is that Jon Diebler attempting to drive the basketball makes most people cringe. Jon's really only great ability on a basketball court is his shooting. If he puts the ball on the court there is about a 60% chance he turns the ball over if he doesn't pass within 2 dribbles. You have to guard Jon because leaving him open he will kill you shooting 3's. But if you make him put the ball on the floor, he goes from #2 in importance to around #4.
• swamisez

  

  Lighty without question
  
  dribble penetrates, manages the offense, gets bigs touches where they don't have to make many moves to score. All you could ask in a pg at this point. OSU will go as far as he takes them.
• Big Gain

  Jester;605096 wrote:And i'd just like to say i'm not trying to say Diebler isn't important at all. I'd probably list him 3rd of 4th in order of importance. Not to mention, it kind of depends on who OSU is playing. Obviously there are going to be games where having Diebler, Craft, Buford or somebody else isn't going to be as nearly as important as in other games.

  
  It is VERY VERY unTEAMlike to assign a number of importance to players on a TEAM.
• CinciX12

  

  I didn't realize we were on the team.
  
  Oh you mean we aren't and we can rank them in order of importance? Okay then.
• Big Gain

  CinciX12;605155 wrote:I didn't realize we were on the team.
  
  Oh you mean we aren't and we can rank them in order of importance? Okay then.

  
  Comprehension issues? No one said you were on a team. You CAN do anythng you like, BUT it can be unteamlike.
• Mulva

  

  se-alum;605080 wrote:If I were a coach, I wouldn't be closing out hard on Lighty or Buford(both under 35% behind the 3pt line). Lighty's game is getting to the basket, and Bufords game is mid-range jumpers. With Diebler out, it would be fairly easy to take the best part of their games away from them.

  
  Agree about Lightly, but Buford usually shoots off the dribble and creates his own shots. If he just circled the 3 point arc and took spot up J's I think he'd shoot a much higher percentage. He's definitely a guy that you have to close hard on.
• Scarlet_Fever

  

  Sullinger is the answer to the poll question. However, I think the most important to develop for tourney time is Craft. Teams with a solid point guard often do well in March. sullinger will still be the most important but if Craft continues to improve that will be huge.
• Jester

  

  Big Gain;605136 wrote:It is VERY VERY unTEAMlike to assign a nummber of importance to players on a TEAM.

  Lol okay.
  
  Go TEAM! Go PLAYERS! Go COACHES! Go CHEERLEADERS! Lets all go get ICE CREAM after the game.
  Remember it's not about winning, it's about having fun!
  
  Better?
• CinciX12

  

  Jester;605322 wrote:Lol okay.
  
  Go TEAM! Go PLAYERS! Go COACHES! Go CHEERLEADERS! Lets all go get ICE CREAM after the game.
  Remember it's not about winning, it's about having fun!
  
  Better?

  Pussification of America. Hands down.
• rydawg5

  Big Gain;605136 wrote:It is VERY VERY unTEAMlike to assign a number of importance to players on a TEAM.

  
  So when someone gets an MVP award they should decline it or they are not a team player? I mean, if importance is placed on them makes them unteamlike, the certainly they should be appalled at the award.
• wildcats20

  

  Not sure where this really belongs, but a GREAT read about Sully and the Bucks...
  
  http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/insider/news/story?id=5942868
  

  If you ever thought it was easy to replace a national POY, go ask Oklahoma Sooners head coach Jeff Capel about life after Blake Griffin. The same could have been said for Thad Matta and the Ohio State Buckeyes this year -- Evan Turner was national POY as a junior, and is now a member of the Philadelphia 76ers.
  
  Turner did everything for the Buckeyes last year: He was their point guard, their featured scorer and far and away their best defensive rebounder. The ball was more or less always in his hands. Take every cliché about the difficulty of replacing your point guard and add every stock phrase about the challenge of losing your leading scorer. Then multiply by five. That was the task facing Thad Matta this year.
  
  And yet, here we are: The Buckeyes are 10-0 and No. 2 in the country; they trail only the Duke Blue Devils in the polls.
  
  To be sure, it's still December. Ohio State's schedule has been, for lack of a better term, uneven. That 18-point win on the road at Florida in mid-November seemed like a big deal at the time. But now that Jacksonville has also beaten the Gators in Gainesville, maybe a convincing win at the O'Connell Center's not such a great measuring stick after all.
  
  Still, all any team can do is play the games it has been given. And even against a schedule that Ken Pomeroy rates as merely the 189th toughest in the country , Ohio State has been undeniably impressive. If anything, the most remarkable aspect of this Buckeyes team is its balance on both sides of the ball. Over its first ten games OSU has scored 1.18 points per possession while allowing opponents to score just 0.82 points per trip. Both numbers are outstanding. How has Matta pulled this off without Turner?
  
  The easy answer is that Matta did it with recruiting. (If you've been paying attention the past five years or so, he's pretty good at that.) And in the person of 6-foot-9 Jared Sullinger, Matta may possibly have the highest-performing freshman he's ever had in Columbus. Greg Oden, Mike Conley, Daequan Cook, Kosta Koufos, Byron Mullens -- they all became first-round NBA draft picks after their freshman years at Ohio State. But if (and it's a big "if") Sullinger can keep doing what he's been doing, he will have surpassed all of the above in terms of effectiveness as a college player.
  
  Let's take a closer look, not only at Sullinger, but also at his talented and experienced running mates.
  
  1. Sullinger, at almost every level, is the new Turner: At every other position Matta has the same starting lineup as last year, one that features William Buford, David Lighty, Jon Diebler and Dallas Lauderdale. The only difference is that Sullinger has replaced Turner in that starting five. Last year Turner took 31 percent of the Buckeyes' shots while he was on the floor. This year the attempts are spread around a little more evenly, as Sullinger accounts for 26 percent of the shots during his minutes. But Sullinger's value to a team trying to replace a national player of the year has been immense. In effect, the freshman's presence has allowed a veteran like Diebler to simply continue doing what he's done before on offense: function as a highly efficient supporting player. Defenses collapsing on Sullinger in the paint also have to account for Diebler, who is hitting 48 percent of his 3s.
  
  2. Then again, there are a few other candidates for "the new Turner:" The point guard duties have been farmed out, with Lighty and Buford upping their assist rates and freshman Aaron Craft coming off the bench and functioning as what some people like to call a "true" point guard (meaning he dishes a ton of assists and never shoots). Craft has struggled with turnovers, but on the whole the point guard-by-committee approach has worked beautifully. Matta's team has committed a turnover on fewer than 17 percent of its offensive possessions and -- as amply demonstrated by the Buckeyes' 55 percent 2-point shooting -- players are getting the ball in position to score. Consider that part of Turner replaced.
  
  3. The two sides of Matta: There is "coach" and there is "recruiter," and some critics have said the latter is a far bigger presence. This year, though, the former can excel -- thanks to the latter. In Sullinger, Lauderdale and 6-6 freshman Deshaun Thomas, Matta has three options standing between 6-6 and 6-9 that he can deploy at will. None of those three is particularly foul-prone; all are available pretty much whenever the situation demands them. Sullinger is Sullinger (see below). The 6-8 Lauderdale, as he's done for years in Columbus, blocks shots like a 7-footer. (Opponents are making just 44 percent of their 2s against this D.) And Thomas makes 58 percent of his 2s while taking on a Turner-sized role in the offense during his 17 minutes per game. To say Matta has weapons is putting it mildly.
  
  4. Sullinger, Sullinger, Sullinger: Sullinger's overall offensive efficiency is excellent, and if he were better than a 70 percent shooter at the line that efficiency would be stratospheric. The freshman draws nearly eight fouls for every 40 minutes he plays, a number that harkens back to the aforementioned Blake Griffin. Not only has he taken over Turner's duties as an outstanding defensive rebounder, Sullinger is also very good on the offensive glass. He makes 61 percent of his 2s and, perhaps most impressively, absolutely never commits a turnover.
  
  We'll learn much more about the true potential of this Buckeyes team in the new year, of course, when OSU plays 18 games against what projects to be a very tough Big Ten. But at the moment, life after Evan Turner is looking pretty good in Columbus, thanks to Sullinger and the coach who landed him.

• Big Gain

  Like the Heisman, it should be accepted for the TEAM. "I couldn't have won this without my teammates."
• Big Gain

  rydawg5;609591 wrote:So when someone gets an MVP award they should decline it or they are not a team player? I mean, if importance is placed on them makes them unteamlike, the certainly they should be appalled at the award.

  
  Like the Heisman, it should be accepted for the TEAM. " I couldn't have won this award without my TEAMmates." "I accept this award for my TEAMmates."
• holdingout

  On this team, nobody is more important than the other. It's a solid starting 5. This team has great chemistry. Very unselfish.