Is Brandon Saine Hurt?

• sjmvsfscs08

  My roommate, probably the biggest Ohio State fan I know, saw Saine with a slight limp on campus and wearing a brace of some sort a day or two before the Eastern Michigan game. Take it for what it's worth...
• wkfan

  I doubt that Saine has 1 yard after contact this season.... goes down at the first contact every time.
  
  Move Saine to the slot receiver and alternalte Herron, Hall, Berry and Hyde at the tailback.
  
  We will need a running game from someone other than Pryor before the season is out....not to mention a punting game.
• FatHobbit

  

  wkfan;498919 wrote:not to mention a punting game.

  OSU is dead last in punting in the big ten. :-/
• thedynasty1998

  

  wkfan;498919 wrote:I doubt that Saine has 1 yard after contact this season.... goes down at the first contact every time.
  
  Move Saine to the slot receiver and alternalte Herron, Hall, Berry and Hyde at the tailback.
  
  We will need a running game from someone other than Pryor before the season is out....not to mention a punting game.

  
  That used to be my knock on Herron, that he didn't break tackles. But at this point, Herron is the better back, although that's not necessarily a compliment.
• wkfan

  FatHobbit;498932 wrote:OSU is dead last in punting in the big ten. :-/

  
  Correction....dead last in Division 1.......#120 our of 120 in net punting.
  
  Short punts and bad coverage is not a good combination.
• vball10set

  I didn't realize it was that bad....whatever it is, it's on Coach Tressel--he's the first to say that special teams is his responsibility. I'm confident he'll get it tightened up.
• Scarlet_Buckeye

  

  I've never understood why so many Buckeye fans are so quick to throw Saine under the bus. Yeah the guy gets hurt a lot (so did C.Wells), and yes (I believe) Herron is the better "runningback" (he runs hard and initiates the contact), but I think if you look at the picture from a step-back, and analyze all the "intangibles" Saine brings to the table (good speed, great hands for a tailback, solid runningback, smart player, etc.) I think it's obvious that Saine is our best option at tailback.
• mallymal614

  mallymal614;498598 wrote:Hall is the best RB on the team in my opinion.

  
  Good point. I guess I'm basing it off of potential. He do have to prove it on the field.
• se-alum

  

  IMO, RB is one of the easiest positions to identify who the good ones are going to be. It was easy to tell that Clarett, Beanie, and Pittman were going to be good runningbacks just by watching how they hit the whole and how decisive they were. I don't care if Hall and Berry are taking handoffs against a 6th string defense, you can see that they have what it takes to be good RB's. I'll take Herron over Saine, but I've never thought either of them would ever be big time backs. It's not always about ypc, sometimes you need that homerun ball, and OSU doesn't have that right now. Beanie was always good for a 50yd run, pretty much every game, and I think we definitely miss that aspect of the running game. Also, don't try to tell me the line isn't making holes for Saine or Herron, I have seen a bunch of plays this year where if they just made one cut they get a substantial gain. The vision & instinct just isn't where it should be for 2 guys that have been in the system for that long. Beanie got paid due to his ability to find the cutback lane, and break off the big run.
• OneBuckeye

  

  My feelings. Boom is much better on short yardage as he will give that extra burst. Saine is better if there is a home run. Boom always seems to make the wrong cut when he breaks one and gets 10 or 20 when he could have got 60. The only reason saines average is so high is because of his long runs. Today I would say give me boom tomorrow I might change that.
  
  I do not like that a running back stays in for the whole drive. Rotate the RBs and get the young guys a carry here and there with the ones.
• gyea36

  Herron continues to demonstrate that he must be on the field at RB over Saine. Its all about having the better first step and more natural instincts, not to mention being a better blocker. I agree that Saine should just be moved to the slot wr, he really excels there. The only way he does anything after a hand off is if the hole is huge. Berry and even Hall have shown that they are more natural RB's, my guess is their lack of knowing blocking schemes and lack of experience are the only things keeping them back.
• thedynasty1998

  

  OneBuckeye;499076 wrote:The only reason saines average is so high is because of his long runs.

  
  Huh?!
• FatHobbit

  

  wkfan;498964 wrote:Correction....dead last in Division 1.......#120 our of 120 in net punting.
  
  Short punts and bad coverage is not a good combination.

  
  ESPN is listing us 109 out of 120 in net punting. We're 111 out of 120 in average punt. Not good however you want to look at it, and I also put that on Tressel. I do think (hope?) they'll get it figured out.
• se-alum

  

  thedynasty1998;499084 wrote:Huh?!

  Outside of runs of 45 & 21 yds, Saine is avg. 2.8ypc on 34 carries.
• thedynasty1998

  

  se-alum;499120 wrote:Outside of runs of 45 & 21 yds, Saine is avg. 2.8ypc on 34 carries.

  
  Isn't that how most backs boost their ypc, with the long runs?
• OneBuckeye

  

  se-alum;499120 wrote:Outside of runs of 45 & 21 yds, Saine is avg. 2.8ypc on 34 carries.

  
  Thanks for doing the legwork SE.
• OneBuckeye

  

  thedynasty1998;499148 wrote:Isn't that how most backs boost their ypc, with the long runs?

  
  usually thats how guys like Ingram average 8+ yards a game. You take out homerun's and your average should be at least 5 YPC.
  
  For example Mark Ingram had 157 on 24 carries a 6.5 yard average. But he had a 54 yard run. when you take that out his average is 4.47 YPC. Which is still good considering he had a lot of runs on the goaline.
• centralbucksfan

  Certainly don't think we need to have a huge concern here. At this time last year, we were talking about the exact same issue. And its not entirely the RB's issue. Our line needs to open up some holes. I really feel, based on last year..that our line will get better and that Herron/Saine will be just fine.
  Again, I'd like to see Berry get some more work in worthwhile situation just to see what he is capable of doing. He certainly, without question, has a burst that Saine and Herron do not have.
  Again, what we would be missing, is the mental part in area's like pass protection and/or catching the ball out of the backfield. Those are big concerns as well.
  
  Se-Alum..no offense, but I always luv how people "exclude" things in stats to make things look worse. What if I took away their short yardage runs and only avg their long runs? Could make them look pretty damn good, couldn't I? Thats we its called an "average". In the end, it usually works itself out.
• Cleveland Buck

  

  Jordan Hall hits the hole quicker than Saine or Herron, can take a hit and stay on his feet, unlike Herron, and can make a tackler miss, unlike Saine, and he will find a hole instead of just lowering his head and running where the play is supposed to go. I'm not saying he is some great runner, but he is definitely better than Saine and Herron.
• se-alum

  

  centralbucksfan;499156 wrote:Certainly don't think we need to have a huge concern here. At this time last year, we were talking about the exact same issue. And its not entirely the RB's issue. Our line needs to open up some holes. I really feel, based on last year..that our line will get better and that Herron/Saine will be just fine.
  Again, I'd like to see Berry get some more work in worthwhile situation just to see what he is capable of doing. He certainly, without question, has a burst that Saine and Herron do not have.
  Again, what we would be missing, is the mental part in area's like pass protection and/or catching the ball out of the backfield. Those are big concerns as well.
  
  Se-Alum..no offense, but I always luv how people "exclude" things in stats to make things look worse. What if I took away their short yardage runs and only avg their long runs? Could make them look pretty damn good, couldn't I? Thats we its called an "average". In the end, it usually works itself out.

  I see what your saying, but with your example you would be excluding a huge percentage of carries. I'm simply showing that on 95% of his carries, Saine is avg. less than 3ypc. I think it's a valid example to show what we get out of Saine the majority of the time.
• thedynasty1998

  

  centralbucksfan;499156 wrote:Certainly don't think we need to have a huge concern here. At this time last year, we were talking about the exact same issue. And its not entirely the RB's issue. Our line needs to open up some holes. I really feel, based on last year..that our line will get better and that Herron/Saine will be just fine.

  
  Then when is it a time for concern? Pryor overcomes the lack of a running game, but that doesn't mean we should expect more. They have had poor results against Marshall, a "soft" Miami defense, OU and E. Michigan. If you can't run the ball against those four teams, there is a huge concern.
  
  As for the offensive line improving, see above. They are all returning starters, there really is no excuse for their poor play. Individually they all look to have the talent needed, but as a unit they are failing. Maybe that's on coaching?
• centralbucksfan

  se-alum;499186 wrote:I see what your saying, but with your example you would be excluding a huge percentage of carries. I'm simply showing that on 95% of his carries, Saine is avg. less than 3ypc. I think it's a valid example to show what we get out of Saine the majority of the time.

  
  And I don't totally disagree. But the other issue is, we are only talking about a limited amount of carries. All games have been blowouts. Most RB's get into a groove and get better the more carries they get. Pretty tough to get anything going when your only getting a handful of carries a game.
  Not making excuses, but I think the Line deserves some blame. I haven't seen too many holes open up.
  And as I said, I too would like to see more of Hall, and especially Berry.
  
  That being said, I know we won't. Tressel is loyal to a fault. So we may as well accept what we are going to see the rest of the season.
• centralbucksfan

  thedynasty1998;499196 wrote:Then when is it a time for concern? Pryor overcomes the lack of a running game, but that doesn't mean we should expect more. They have had poor results against Marshall, a "soft" Miami defense, OU and E. Michigan. If you can't run the ball against those four teams, there is a huge concern.
  
  As for the offensive line improving, see above. They are all returning starters, there really is no excuse for their poor play. Individually they all look to have the talent needed, but as a unit they are failing. Maybe that's on coaching?

  
  Coaching? Well, i have been very critical, for years with Bohlman. I don't like his philosophy, which is zone blocking. Which not many college teams do. They don't fire off the ball. Jim Lachey has been on Bohlman for years about this and doesn't like it as well.
  But again, its fairly early and OSU philosophy is obviously different then it has been. They are running shotgun and spreading the field looking to throw the ball much more then the past two years. Add in that Pryor is healthy, and is obviously a big part of the running attach that can obviously offset the others. Thats why I am not overly concerned at this point.
• krambman

  

  OneBuckeye;499151 wrote:usually thats how guys like Ingram average 8+ yards a game. You take out homerun's and your average should be at least 5 YPC.
  
  For example Mark Ingram had 157 on 24 carries a 6.5 yard average. But he had a 54 yard run. when you take that out his average is 4.47 YPC. Which is still good considering he had a lot of runs on the goaline.

  
  Using Ingram is a bad example. The guy only had one run over 40 yards last year. He had more in his first game this season than he did all last year.
  

  se-alum;499186 wrote:I see what your saying, but with your example you would be excluding a huge percentage of carries. I'm simply showing that on 95% of his carries, Saine is avg. less than 3ypc. I think it's a valid example to show what we get out of Saine the majority of the time.

  
  So basically Saine hits a home run once every 15 or so carries. That's not bad. Some guys will have a good average because that's what they get every carry. Others because they have a long run periodically. As a team, you need to decide which is most important or which risk is a better one to take (the risk of a guy who will be consistent but rarely give you a long run, like Pittman in 2005, or a guy who won't be super consistent, but will give you a great long run once a game). Like someone already said, most RB's average yards per carry look inflated because they will have a long or or two occasionally. It's hard to tell how good any of these guys really are because none of them are getting more than 15 carries a game, and like I said earlier, running backs thrive off of rhythm and you can't get onto a rhythm only getting 15 carries a game. And if these guys are only getting 15 carries a game if Saine breaks one once every 15 or so carries, I'd say that his 2.8ypc average is a risk you'd be willing to take for the one 40+ yard run he'll give you each game.
• se-alum

  

  centralbucksfan;499201 wrote:And I don't totally disagree. But the other issue is, we are only talking about a limited amount of carries. All games have been blowouts. Most RB's get into a groove and get better the more carries they get. Pretty tough to get anything going when your only getting a handful of carries a game.
  Not making excuses, but I think the Line deserves some blame. I haven't seen too many holes open up.
  And as I said, I too would like to see more of Hall, and especially Berry.
  
  That being said, I know we won't. Tressel is loyal to a fault. So we may as well accept what we are going to see the rest of the season.

  I think Saine is getting less carries, due to lack of production. Just look at the Miami game. Herron got 14 carries because he was avg. 4.7 per, Saine I think ended up avg. around 1.8. To me, Saine is a prototypical 3rd down back. He can get ya 2-3 yards, and is excellent receiving out of the backfield. I was down on the line a little bit to, until I started hearing about the lineman grading out to "Winning" performances quite often, which OSU fans know, isn't an easy thing to do at all. I went back and watched the Miami game after I heard, I believe, Browning & Boren graded as winning performances, and there were plenty of cutback lanes and opportunities to bounce it outside. I think Saine is a good kid, but not a #1 back for OSU.
  
  I'm just glad we're able to have a discussion without a pissing match breakin' out!!
  
  BTW, Miami's defense is anything but "soft". They are allowing less than 3yds a rush and have 14 sacks on the year.