Input from sleeper needed

• johngrizzly

  Sleeper,
  
  Could you please let these non OSU fans know why an OSU education, the OSU athletic Dept and anything else pertaining to OSU is ranked at the top? I enjoy reading your posts. Topics like the Big 10 conference, stadiums, traditions, etc. Please give us an update on OSU football GPA's and how being an OSU alum instills character. Why should my daughter attend OSU?
  
  Thanks ahead of time!
• ohiotiger33

  

  Lol.
• redfalcon

  

  
• ohiotiger33

  

  Can you belittle my school as well -- I need to be told why my education is worthless and why my teams success pales in comparison to that of OSU's and the Big Ten.
• Red_Skin_Pride

  

  OP
  I realize you're being satirical, and I appreciate the effort, it is quite funny. The education/tradition side can be argued to a point because it's partly subjective. HOWEVER, if you're talking strictly football and talking all-time measurable stats, unless your a ND, Michigan or Alabama fan, you really have nothing to argue with when sleeper says stuff like he does. Is he annoying to non-OSU fans? Hell yes. Is he off base? Nope. When you take the number of national titles, heisman winners, all-americans, wins, conference titles and NFL players, there are 4 schools that jump off the page at you ALL TIME in college football and those are ND, Michigan, Ohio State and Alabama. I hate to drag down you're routine with boring stats and numbers, but the Big10 has and has always had since it's inception 2 of the top 4 programs in college football. ND is independent, and the other is Alabama. Therefore, your attempt at humor is admirable, but misplaced, as most of what you're trying to argue against with satire, you're actually making a case FOR.
• killer_ewok

  

  Sleeper-I need to know when Colt McCoy won the Heisman.
  
  Thanks in advance!!!!
• ytownfootball

  

  Seeing how apples don't generally fall too far from the tree, I'm thinking your daughter may be better served by ITT Tech, maybe DeVry.
• johngrizzly

  Red_Skin_Pride;485294 wrote:OP
  I realize you're being satirical, and I appreciate the effort, it is quite funny. The education/tradition side can be argued to a point because it's partly subjective. HOWEVER, if you're talking strictly football and talking all-time measurable stats, unless your a ND, Michigan or Alabama fan, you really have nothing to argue with when sleeper says stuff like he does. Is he annoying to non-OSU fans? Hell yes. Is he off base? Nope. When you take the number of national titles, heisman winners, all-americans, wins, conference titles and NFL players, there are 4 schools that jump off the page at you ALL TIME in college football and those are ND, Michigan, Ohio State and Alabama. I hate to drag down you're routine with boring stats and numbers, but the Big10 has and has always had since it's inception 2 of the top 4 programs in college football. ND is independent, and the other is Alabama. Therefore, your attempt at humor is admirable, but misplaced, as most of what you're trying to argue against with satire, you're actually making a case FOR.

  Thats good stuff, the kind of stuff I want to hear.
• sleeper

  

  johngrizzly;485261 wrote:Sleeper,
  
  Could you please let these non OSU fans know why an OSU education, the OSU athletic Dept and anything else pertaining to OSU is ranked at the top? I enjoy reading your posts. Topics like the Big 10 conference, stadiums, traditions, etc. Please give us an update on OSU football GPA's and how being an OSU alum instills character. Why should my daughter attend OSU?
  
  Thanks ahead of time!

  
  If you have to ask, we don't want you!
  
  Go Bucks!
• sjmvsfscs08

  we?
• sjmvsfscs08

  Red_Skin_Pride;485294 wrote:OP
  I realize you're being satirical, and I appreciate the effort, it is quite funny. The education/tradition side can be argued to a point because it's partly subjective. HOWEVER, if you're talking strictly football and talking all-time measurable stats, unless your a ND, Michigan or Alabama fan, you really have nothing to argue with when sleeper says stuff like he does. Is he annoying to non-OSU fans? Hell yes. Is he off base? Nope. When you take the number of national titles, heisman winners, all-americans, wins, conference titles and NFL players, there are 4 schools that jump off the page at you ALL TIME in college football and those are ND, Michigan, Ohio State and Alabama. I hate to drag down you're routine with boring stats and numbers, but the Big10 has and has always had since it's inception 2 of the top 4 programs in college football. ND is independent, and the other is Alabama. Therefore, your attempt at humor is admirable, but misplaced, as most of what you're trying to argue against with satire, you're actually making a case FOR.

  
  Oklahoma? Nebraska?
• Al Bundy

  Red_Skin_Pride;485294 wrote:OP
  I realize you're being satirical, and I appreciate the effort, it is quite funny. The education/tradition side can be argued to a point because it's partly subjective. HOWEVER, if you're talking strictly football and talking all-time measurable stats, unless your a ND, Michigan or Alabama fan, you really have nothing to argue with when sleeper says stuff like he does. Is he annoying to non-OSU fans? Hell yes. Is he off base? Nope. When you take the number of national titles, heisman winners, all-americans, wins, conference titles and NFL players, there are 4 schools that jump off the page at you ALL TIME in college football and those are ND, Michigan, Ohio State and Alabama. I hate to drag down you're routine with boring stats and numbers, but the Big10 has and has always had since it's inception 2 of the top 4 programs in college football. ND is independent, and the other is Alabama. Therefore, your attempt at humor is admirable, but misplaced, as most of what you're trying to argue against with satire, you're actually making a case FOR.

  
  USC is up there in both championships and Heisman winners.
• krambman

  

  Red_Skin_Pride;485294 wrote:OP
  I realize you're being satirical, and I appreciate the effort, it is quite funny. The education/tradition side can be argued to a point because it's partly subjective. HOWEVER, if you're talking strictly football and talking all-time measurable stats, unless your a ND, Michigan or Alabama fan, you really have nothing to argue with when sleeper says stuff like he does. Is he annoying to non-OSU fans? Hell yes. Is he off base? Nope. When you take the number of national titles, heisman winners, all-americans, wins, conference titles and NFL players, there are 4 schools that jump off the page at you ALL TIME in college football and those are ND, Michigan, Ohio State and Alabama. I hate to drag down you're routine with boring stats and numbers, but the Big10 has and has always had since it's inception 2 of the top 4 programs in college football. ND is independent, and the other is Alabama. Therefore, your attempt at humor is admirable, but misplaced, as most of what you're trying to argue against with satire, you're actually making a case FOR.

  Alabama? Really? Are you aware that Texas, Nebraska, Penn State, and Oklahoma ALL have more wins all-time and all but Penn State having a higher all-time win percentage than Alabama. So I decided to take your criteria (National Titles, Heisman Winner, All-Americans, Wins, Conference Titles, NFL Draft picks, and I added winning percentage. I then took the top 10 teams in terms of wins and winning percentage (I left Boise State out since they have played less than half as many games all-time as everyone else on the list), and looked up where these teams stood in these categories, and averaged them. Here is what I found:
  
  
  
  Here are the all-time ranks in each of these categories. Please note, Each of the ranks are their ranks overall with a few exceptions. Winning percentage discards Boise State. Consensus All-Americans and conference titles are are ranked among only these 10 teams because I couldn't find a comprehensive all-time list for those categories.
  
  
  
  Now, I added up the total ranks for all seven categories for each team and then averaged them. For Notre Dame and Penn State their average is out of only 6 categories as conference titles were not included because of their long-time independence. When all-time ranks in these categories was averaged, this is what came out:
  
  1. Notre Dame - 1.833
  2. Michigan - 3.143
  3. Ohio State - 4.143
  4. Oklahoma - 4.714
  5. USC - 4.714*
  6. Nebraska - 6.143
  7. Texas - 8.286
  8. Alabama - 9.143
  9. Penn State - 13.167
  10. Tennessee - 18.714
  
  *USC was given credit for 6 Heisman Trophies since Reggie Bush's Heisman has been vacated. I also ranked them lower than Oklahoma even though they have the same average because Oklahoma has the edge in wins, winning percentage, and national championships.
  
  So, obviously there are problems with these rankings because Heisman wins are weighted the same as total wins and national championships, but it is an interesting comparison (maybe I'll try and develop some kind of weighting and add a few more categories and do an all-time ranking of NCAA football programs sometime). So based on these rankings only Notre Dame and Michigan really have room to talk when it comes to OSU. Also, like I set out to point out, Alabama is really nowhere close to being one of the top four programs of all time, as they only finished in the top four in one category and finished 8th overall.
• karen lotz

  

  Good work Krambman.
• krambman

  

  karen lotz;485491 wrote:Good work Krambman.

  
  Thanks. I believe in research and using actual data, not just opinion and whatever you "think" is right to argue a point.
• sleeper

  

  krambman;485499 wrote:Thanks. I believe in research and using actual data, not just opinion and whatever you "think" is right to argue a point.

  
  You forgot to deduct a million points for having 9 consecutive bowl losses...
  
  I never knew Michigan was that good, nice to know!
• tcarrier32

  

  nice work krabman, only noticed one mistake, tennessee's winning percentage is listed at .964
• TBone14

  

  krambman;485499 wrote:Thanks. I believe in research and using actual data, not just opinion and whatever you "think" is right to argue a point.

  
  Heresy!
• sleeper

  

  tcarrier32;485599 wrote:nice work krabman, only noticed one mistake, tennessee's winning percentage is listed at .964

  
  Also, Texas is #2 in wins, not ND. Not to hard to catch them since they win about 6 games per year for the last 20 years.
• sleeper

  

  Also should be pointed out, 4 of the top 10 teams all time will be in the Big Ten. And that doesn't even include Wisconsin or Iowa, 2 teams that would win most other conferences.
• krambman

  

  tcarrier32;485599 wrote:nice work krabman, only noticed one mistake, tennessee's winning percentage is listed at .964

  
  I had their rank correct which is really what matters to the rankings.
  

  sleeper;485677 wrote:Also, Texas is #2 in wins, not ND. Not to hard to catch them since they win about 6 games per year for the last 20 years.

  
  You're correct, I missed that. If you switch those ranks around it doesn't change the overall rankings though.
• sleeper

  

  ND still shouldn't be #1. When you don't have to grind out a tough schedule in a conference, you're going to have inflated numbers, thus more Heismans/All Americans/Gifted National Championships etc...
  
  There's gotta be a formula that can hash that out, maybe like put them dead last in conference title(they've never won a conference title) and then the numbers would be rock solid.
• krambman

  

  sleeper;485703 wrote:ND still shouldn't be #1. When you don't have to grind out a tough schedule in a conference, you're going to have inflated numbers, thus more Heismans/All Americans/Gifted National Championships etc...
  
  There's gotta be a formula that can hash that out, maybe like put them dead last in conference title(they've never won a conference title) and then the numbers would be rock solid.

  
  This is why these rankings need to be weighted some way. I actually thought about including bowl wins or bowl record, but that's a bit misleading since for years the Big Ten only allowed one team to participate in a bowl game while other conferences allowed multiple teams to participate (which is why Alabama has nearly twice as many bowl appearances as Michigan). Conference championships aren't a great indicator either, since not all conferences are equal. Winning an 8 team conference is very different than winning a 12 team conference. Like I said, those rankings are from from perfect, they were just to put numeric values to the criteria RSP laid out mainly to prove that Alabama isn't one of the four historic programs that jumps off the page.
• tcarrier32

  

  just checking.
• Tiernan

  I like to ask 4 questions to idiots in bars as I travel this great country...
  
  #1 Who is the only white man that wears 8 NBA Championship rings, and where did go to school?
  #2 Who is undisputably the greatest golfer of all time, and where did he go to school?
  #3 There is only one man on the planet who uses Heisman Trophies as book-ends, and where did he go to school
  ...and#4 Who is without equal recognized as The Greatest Athlete of All Time, and where did he go to school?
  
  This usually shuts up anybody who wants to challenge their piss-ant school's accomplishments against those of tOSU.