Who's your Biletnikoff winner?
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Red_Skin_Pride
So you're going to take away from what a player has done becuase your coach was too dumb to do the same thing with Tate? OH MY GOD, imagine using your best player as often as you should...what a dumbass move that must be. Nice logic there.Mooney44Cards wrote:
Cuz they don't get thrown to enough to catch the ball 130+ times a year?Red_Skin_Pride wrote:
I love how you talk about this like it's some conference record Barnes is on the verge of breaking. This is an ALL-TIME NCAA RECORD BUDDY. You can't be just anybody and play Division 1 football, and decide, 'oh hey, I think I'll break an NCAA record this year'. Lol what a joke. If Tate had his numbers, there would be 45564868494765974 threads about how great he was, and how he should win the heisman, and the belitnekoff and the pulitzer and Nobel Peace Prize.
As I've said before, then why don't MAC receivers break this record almost every year, if it's so easy to do it? I love when ND fans talk down about other schools like going 6-6 and GIVEN a bowl game is anything noteworthy. You guys were basically served up a schedule on a silver platter this year to make a BCS game, and with all that talent, you are barely bowl eligible. And you would hope that Tate has good numbers; he's got an alleged "heisman contender" throwing him the ball. Barnes would have about 25 catches and 200+ yards on Notre Dame's mirage of a defense. Barnes is as good or better than Baldwin is, and we saw how that worked out for you guys. Hey, maybe we'll get to see them play each other in a bowl game, since all ND will be worthy of playing is a MAC/WAC/CUSA team.
And BTW, Bowling Green has a first year coach. Yeah, they throw the ball to Barnes a lot. He's one of the few returning weapons they have on offense. God forbid they'd give it to the guy that gives them their best chance to win game (like he did in 3 games this year). Maybe if the Guru would figure out someone or something they can consistently go to on their offense, their best win would be better than...Nevada? Maybe Michigan State? Nice. Both teams have 6 wins. One team has a first year coach, the other has one that's been there way too long, and Barnes has better numbers...FACE IT.
Put Golden Tate on BG and throw to him that much and he may have 2500 yards and 35 TD's.
I'm sure with all the **outstanding** defenses Notre Dame has faced, they could have thrown the ball to Tate more than they did. And I could fly if I could have grown wings. Neither one of those things happened, but yet you still expect a reciever with lesser stats to win an award because of...what? Because he plays for Notre Dame?
And you want to do comparisons? Give Freddie Barnes a QB like Clausen or McCoy and he might have 200 catches and 20+ TD's. -
rock_knutneRed_Skin_Pride wrote:Give Freddie Barnes a QB like Clausen or McCoy and he might have 200 catches and 20+ TD's.
You made these crazy arguments on the other huddle and it seems you haven't learned a damn thing. If Barnes is so good, why isn't he playing at a place like ND or OSU? You know why, he wasn't good enough or had personal issues that prevented him to be recruited by a big time CFB program. So do us all a favor and give it up already! -
stroups
rock_knutne wrote:Red_Skin_Pride wrote:Give Freddie Barnes a QB like Clausen or McCoy and he might have 200 catches and 20+ TD's.
You made these crazy arguments on the other huddle and it seems you haven't learned a damn thing. If Barnes is so good, why isn't he playing at a place like ND or OSU? You know why, he wasn't good enough or had personal issues that prevented him to be recruited by a big time CFB program. So do us all a favor and give it up already!
Thats a terrible argument, so your saying that just because somebody plays at a smaller school they are not good or have personal issues? -
sjmvsfscs08
You mean like the stat "yards per reception?" Because Barnes ranks 271st in that stat category.Red_Skin_Pride wrote: STATS ARE WHAT THEY ARE. No matter how much ND fans and lovers try and twist the facts and the stats, they'll still be the same.
Of the top fifteen receivers, yard-wise, Golden Tate's average of 15.6 is first. Barne's average is last. He's a system receiver, deal with it. -
killer_ewok
The funny thing is he keeps going back to "ND fans and lovers" when there were quite a few on this thread who stated that they don't like ND or that they hate ND and even they said that they thought that Tate deserved it. Therefore, trying to play the "homer" and "bias" card here is pointless. -
rock_knutne
How's it a terrible argument? Answer the question, if Barnes is "all that" then why is he not playing at a major CFB program? If Golden Tate played against BGSU's opposition he'd have already re-wrote the record books by now.stroups wrote:Thats a terrible argument, so your saying that just because somebody plays at a smaller school they are not good or have personal issues?
BTW, I'm saying Barnes either wasn't good enough in the eyes of major CFB programs or he had some type of issues that scared then off. Don't know if either point is true because one, I don't know about his past/character and two, I don't think he would be putting up these type of numbers in the Big East let alone the Big 10. -
Hb31187
So Tate is better because he runs deep routes and has a system that allows him to catch deep balls thus making his YPC higher than Barnes?
And Barnes is worse because he plays for a smaller division school and catches many short passes? I mean really just because you play in a bigger division doesnt mean you're automatically a good WR. Look at Steve Smith, Terrell Owens, Miles Austin ect. They came from small schools and have no problem fitting in. While there are MANY "big time" college Wr's that play for powerhouses that simply dont pan out -
rock_knutne^^^^We'll see who does better at the next level, my money is on Tate.
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rock_knutneEnough said:
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h2thaizzoI wasn't aware Utah was a small school. I mean lets just go through the entire NFL and pick amongst who went to a small school and is successful versus who isn't to determine an opinion as to which receiver deserves the Biletnikoff this year?
Those of us who say Tate deserves the award are correct. So are those who say the award should be Barnes', as well as Shipley's. An opinion is never wrong, but we have legit reasons to claim that Tate deserves the award more than Barnes. Sure, those who are in favor of Barnes have the impressive paper stats to go by, which some of the time is enough to earn the hype and the award, but just because I ace the qualification testing for a job doesn't mean I will be the person they decide to go with in the end.
I've watched a ton of college football this year, and I don't care if Crabtree, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss were playing college football today, the guy has impressed me so much with his ability to do everything on the field offensively, that I would probably give him the award going head to head against each one of these guys. The guy is 5'10" but plays like he is 6'10". He is elusive but strong. He makes every catch possible, and doesn't just get the reception and go down, the guy fights for every yard he gets. And NO, I am not a ND fan at all. If you want to hype up your favorite, than hype him up! Don't just feed me this "He is on pace to break an All-Time record". You know what that tells me, along with the old "you can't put up good numbers and not run good routes" crap? That you probably haven't watched a single play, and one of a few things is going on in your head.
1. You are rooting for the underdog
2. You are rooting for the local school guy
3. You just dislike ND and Texas programs that much, and in doing so only feel like justifying the guy with the biggest numbers as the award winner.
I honestly would love to vote for Barnes, its a great story and I wish him the best of luck, but the fact remains that I have seen the guy play, more than once, and the numbers are quite inflated largely in part to the offense they run at BG, not because of his abilities compared to the rest of NCAA FBS football. -
Red_Skin_Pride
Actually, he commited to Bowling Green because he came in as a QUARTERBACK. They were one of the only schools that would consider letting him play QB, and he took it. He actually played some QB his first few seasons with BG, and that's why he runs their version of the "wildcat" formation now. When it was clear that Sheehan was going to start ahead of him he moved to Receiver, instead of transferring like half of the players in his situation would have done. But seeing as you've already assumed why he didn't go to a "big" school without having any clue about what the hell you're talking about, let's just go with your completely uneducated and unresearched claim.rock_knutne wrote:Red_Skin_Pride wrote:Give Freddie Barnes a QB like Clausen or McCoy and he might have 200 catches and 20+ TD's.
You made these crazy arguments on the other huddle and it seems you haven't learned a damn thing. If Barnes is so good, why isn't he playing at a place like ND or OSU? You know why, he wasn't good enough or had personal issues that prevented him to be recruited by a big time CFB program. So do us all a favor and give it up already!
Thanks for providing the punch line; irony that I couldn't possibly add. You call me out for spouting off and not "learning a damn thing", and hear you are doing the same on a topic you have no clue on! Practice what you preach. Priceless.
OH and btw, while we're on it...Randy Moss, Terrelle Owens, Shannon Sharpe, Jerry Rice...all some pretty good receivers, wouldn't you say? Can you guess what they have in common? NONE of them went to a "big" school. In fact, none of them even played Division 1 football, save for Moss who played for Marshall in their first few seasons of DI play. He was recruited there/committed when they were I-AA. Rice played for Mississippi Valley State (I-AA), Sharpe played for Savannah State (I-AA), and TO played for UT-Chattanooga (I-AA). Guess what? You dont have to go to a place like ND or OSU to be a great player. It's the ass-backwards people like you that still think like you do that ruin college football and the ignore the parity and progression of today's game (i.e. why the SAME teams are always in the top 10, and why the SAME teams always play for and win the National Title). I'd be willing to bet that like most of the "powers that be" in CFB and the BCS, you'd rather just not have football before you'd give a major award to a non-BCS conference player, god forbid let one win the heisman (Ladanian Tomlinson immediatly jumps to mind)...or *GASP* even worse yet, let one play for a National Title!!!!!
You're right; the BCS system is fine, not seriously flawed. We don't need a playoff. Players who put up better numbers should be discredited for what they did because YOU deem the competition they play to be weak, while ND's 6-5 record against average teams just reeks of BEASTY. Sleep peacefully tonight knowing that college football has not changed at all in the last 20 years since a certain program went on vacation, we still have a true national champion, and the best players certainly can ONLY play for teams like Notre Dame and OSU
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Red_Skin_Pride
You're first bolded part tells me you're delusional. Are you KIDDING me? I do think Tate is VERY good player; but if you really think that head to head he is better than those players, even in college, you're insane.h2thaizzo wrote: I wasn't aware Utah was a small school. I mean lets just go through the entire NFL and pick amongst who went to a small school and is successful versus who isn't to determine an opinion as to which receiver deserves the Biletnikoff this year?
Those of us who say Tate deserves the award are correct. So are those who say the award should be Barnes', as well as Shipley's. An opinion is never wrong, but we have legit reasons to claim that Tate deserves the award more than Barnes. Sure, those who are in favor of Barnes have the impressive paper stats to go by, which some of the time is enough to earn the hype and the award, but just because I ace the qualification testing for a job doesn't mean I will be the person they decide to go with in the end.
I've watched a ton of college football this year, and I don't care if Crabtree, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss were playing college football today, the guy has impressed me so much with his ability to do everything on the field offensively, that I would probably give him the award going head to head against each one of these guys. The guy is 5'10" but plays like he is 6'10". He is elusive but strong. He makes every catch possible, and doesn't just get the reception and go down, the guy fights for every yard he gets. And NO, I am not a ND fan at all. If you want to hype up your favorite, than hype him up! Don't just feed me this "He is on pace to break an All-Time record". You know what that tells me, along with the old "you can't put up good numbers and not run good routes" crap? That you probably haven't watched a single play, and one of a few things is going on in your head.
1. You are rooting for the underdog
2. You are rooting for the local school guy
3. You just dislike ND and Texas programs that much, and in doing so only feel like justifying the guy with the biggest numbers as the award winner.
I honestly would love to vote for Barnes, its a great story and I wish him the best of luck, but the fact remains that I have seen the guy play, more than once, and the numbers are quite inflated largely in part to the offense they run at BG, not because of his abilities compared to the rest of NCAA FBS football.
How am I feeding you crap? He IS ON PACE to break or at least tie an NCAA record. I'd be happy to recap that for you and provide you with a link to show this to you if you'd like to argue that. And I'm sorry that you feel that he doesn't run good routes. What you must understand is that Barnes is a POSSESSION receiver. He doesn't have blazing speed to run himself open (which I've seen Tate to several times this year). Do you honestly think, honestly, that you catch that many balls in a year without being able to get open?? Do you think that he might have to be a good route-runner to get open when a lot of teams double and sometimes triple cover him with a spy, and he still catches the ball??? BG has almost NO other offensive threats, and Barnes gets the full focus of the defense. Yet he still puts up these numbers. Don't you wonder how that happens while making a claim like you made?
And as for your last part, I would wager that I watch more college football than 3/4 of the people on this site or the old JJ for that matter, seeing as how it's my job. I've watched every ND game except one this year and I've missed 2 Texas games and 2 BG games and 0 OSU games. I've seen every BCS conference team play at least once, and I've seen all of the current top 30 play at least twice (thank you TiVo). I've been impressed with Barnes' ability to catch everything thrown his way, and to do it with basically no help. Tate and Shipley are great, mostly because they are great players, but also in large part because they both have solid athletes at the skill positions around them, especially two NFL QB's throwing them the ball, and other receivers to keep the defense to from focusing on them all game (Rudolph, Floyd, Kirkendall, Chiles) in two of top recruiting classes every year for the last several years. Despite not having any of that, Barnes has managed to put up stats that you call "gimmicky". Well gimmicky has gotten a first year head coach 6 wins and bowl eligible (they'll only get a bid if they beat Toledo on Friday) in a year where most people were saying 3 wins at best and last or next-to-last in their division. They use what few weapons they have at their disposal, and that happens to be Freddie Barnes. If you had a receiver that was guaranteed to get you almost a first down every time he catches it (in terms of ypc) why the hell wouldn't you throw to him a lot? I guess if that's gimmicky, OSU had a hell of a gimmick offense last year when all we could do was hand off to Beanie Wells for 4-5 yards per carry. I guess the thing that gets me the most is all the people on this thread detracting from Barnes because he plays in the MAC; and that's true, a lot of the defenders won't be playing at the next level. However, some will. Meanwhile, the same people are saying that ND's schedule should allow Tate to win it. Both schools have 6 wins, and let's be honest, those 6 didn't exactly come over world-beaters in terms of competition. If Nevada upsets Boise this weekend, Nevada will be ND's best win (unless they would somehow stop Stanford, which I can't see their run D doing). I know Tate put up solid numbers against the "better" competition, but it wasn't far and away better. USC's down this year, most especially their defense and even Pitt's defense has been suspect at times. For me it comes down to the fact that Barnes has made THE catch in several games this year that they needed him to make. He's basically won 3 games for them. They could easily be 3-8 without him. He has to best stats of the 3, he's a quality possession receiver that would be great for a team with a burner to compliment him (which BG does not have), and he's far and away the most valuable player to his team of each of the 3 receivers we are talking about. If Barnes goes down, BG's is all but out of options in the passing game, and they have little chance of winning. That's JMO, but if you can't win it with stats and value to your team, and possibly an NCAA record to boot, well I'm not going to change anyone's mind, so think what you want. But he deserves it and probably won't get it. -
rock_knutne^^^^^Wow, unreal! Two novels posted back to back full of the same bullshit you've posted over and over. Get a clue!
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Hb31187
LMAO Tate is good...But better then Johnson, Johnson or Moss is downright funny.
Im not saying Barnes DESERVES it, Im saying hes a quality player and def top 30 in the nation contrary to what you believe. And Utah is a mid major....just like BGSU -
rock_knutne^^^^Who's that post directed at? If at me, I made no claims comparing Tate to Johnson or Moss. I also never said Barnes isn't a quality player, he's good but if he's as good as some of you think then why isn't he playing at a MAJOR CFB program?
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Goldenboy26
gotta be Golden Tate -
Hb31187
No not towards you Rock, towards Izzo.
And theres plenty of talented players playing Mid Major, Could be grades, could be they got in trouble, could be other personal issues ect Too many variables to count -
karen lotz
Red, it's funny you bring up Moss being at a small school. Since college football is your job, do you know where he originally signed and why he ended up at Marshall?? As many people have said there is a reason why Barnes is at BG. And for you saying Barnes should be complimented for switching positions instead of transferring, the same can be said for Tate. He came in as a RB and also runs ND's version of the wildcat. -
Red_Skin_Pride
You probably didn't read anything I posted. Congrats, you're already the most ignorant asshole on this website!! Keep being oblivious and blasting you ignorant Notre Dame bullshit and trumpeting their 6-5 record, while people ignore you just like they did on JJ. Why don't we just give Tate the heisman while we're at it rock? Obviously no one else deserves it.rock_knutne wrote: ^^^^^Wow, unreal! Two novels posted back to back full of the same bullshit you've posted over and over. Get a clue! -
Red_Skin_Pride
Actually, yes I do karen. He originally signed at Notre Dame (so you guys can all cream your panties and pat yourselves on the back that you 'almost had' Randy Moss), but got in a fight before he got to campus. ND didn't let him enroll, so he went to Florida State, where he redshirted since he would lose that year of eligibility anyway. He got caught smokin' some reefer (drug test) and was dismissed from FSU. Transferred to Marshall who was still I-AA at the time so he didn't have to lose any eligibility. I had known for awhile that he originally commited to ND, but didn't know he made a stop at FSU for a short time before going to Marshall.karen lotz wrote: Red, it's funny you bring up Moss being at a small school. Since college football is your job, do you know where he originally signed and why he ended up at Marshall?? As many people have said there is a reason why Barnes is at BG. And for you saying Barnes should be complimented for switching positions instead of transferring, the same can be said for Tate. He came in as a RB and also runs ND's version of the wildcat.
More interestingly, if he was playing right now according to ROCK, Moss should be totally undeserving of the award, since when he played at Marshall once they were D-I, they played in the MAC. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY THEY ARE WHERE THEY ARE. Why does everybody seem to think that if a MAC team has a good player, it is only because they had discipline issues, academic issues, or "other variables" that suggest negative character issues? Sometimes, kids want to go close to home, or to a school that gives them a CHANCE to play the position the played in high school or they want to play right away. -
h2thaizzoIt was sarcastic, but I guess nobody caught onto that.
Golden Tate
Eric Decker
Mike Williams
Shay Hodge
Arrelious Benn
Damian Williams
Dez Bryant
Jordan Shipley
Brandon Lafell
Danario Alexander
Naaman Roosevelt
Marty Gilyard
Julio Jones
AJ Green
Demaryius Thomas
Dezmon Briscoe
Michael Floyd
Riley Cooper
Terrance Tolliver
There's 19 WR's in college I would surely rate above Freddie Barnes. Here's a link to the guy I would compare Barnes to talent wise http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Edwards. -
rock_knutne
Absolutely, Golden Tate should be mentioned for the Heisman Trophy. Too bad the award now goes to the "best player on the best team" and not to "the best player", as it was originally intended to be.Red_Skin_Pride wrote:You probably didn't read anything I posted. Congrats, you're already the most ignorant asshole on this website!! Keep being oblivious and blasting you ignorant Notre Dame bullshit and trumpeting their 6-5 record, while people ignore you just like they did on JJ. Why don't we just give Tate the heisman while we're at it rock? Obviously no one else deserves it.
BTW, please show me where I'm trumpeting ND's 6-5 record? And you have the balls to call me ignorant? If anyone is being ignored it's your narrow minded stupidity.
Happy Thanksgiving from the most ignorant asshole on this website! -
rock_knutneRed_Skin_Pride wrote: More interestingly, if he was playing right now according to ROCK, Moss should be totally undeserving of the award, since when he played at Marshall once they were D-I, they played in the MAC.
Let's make something very clear moron, do not put words in my mouth. I never posted anything insinuating what you posted about Moss. I see you still do not deal with facts and like to pull complete shit out of you ass, just like when you posted on the other Huddle. Again, you have the balls to call me an ignorant asshole..........maybe you should go look in the mirror Einstein! -
Red_Skin_Pride
Really? I'm not the one trying to argue my way around STATISTICS, which by the way are FACTS, to prove a guy with LESSER statistics, should deserve an award over a guy with BETTER statistics on two teams with IDENTICAL records.rock_knutne wrote:Red_Skin_Pride wrote: More interestingly, if he was playing right now according to ROCK, Moss should be totally undeserving of the award, since when he played at Marshall once they were D-I, they played in the MAC.
Let's make something very clear moron, do not put words in my mouth. I never posted anything insinuating what you posted about Moss. I see you still do not deal with facts and like to pull complete shit out of you ass, just like when you posted on the other Huddle. Again, you have the balls to call me an ignorant asshole..........maybe you should go look in the mirror Einstein!
And please site where I pull "shit out of [my] ass". I cited RESEARCHABLE facts, based on numbers. Just because YOU choose to ignore those, doesn't mean they're shit. It means your an ignorant asshole, just like I said. You haven't posted one fact about ANYTHING; in fact, all you've talked about is how big of a homer you are and that everybody who disagrees with you is a "moron", just because we all aren't in love with Tate or Notre Dame. I hope your ignorance continues; just saw your post on the ND coach search thread. If you think Meyer or Stoops gives two shits in hell about Notre Dame, you have an even bigger ego than I thought. But keep thinking the sun shines out ND and their players asses, I'm sure you'll be thrilled when they win the Hawaii bowl over the WAC's #3 team again, and tell us about how awesome all your players are. -
Red_Skin_Pride
Did you bother to read the link you posted? Troy Edwards WON the Biletnikoff in 98. You basically just proved my point of what I've been trying to say on here; and to be clear, my beef is NOT at all with you. I'm sure Rock wont bother reading that, since he didn't post it and he's only in love with his own voice. And I agree with some of the names on your list; I think there are about 8-10 WR's who are as good or better than Barnes. Some I would contend, but to each his own. The only argument I've been trying to make is while there WILL be better receivers come from this class and the next one or two (in terms of translating to the next level), they haven't put up the numbers necessary; of the three that have, I'm sorry but Barnes meets the specifications for a Biletnikoff award better than the other two. I don't know if he'll be a better receiver at the next level than Tate or Shipley; likely not because BCS conferences prepare you a little better for the NFL than some non-bcs conferences do. However, the award isn't for "who will be better at the next level", it's for what the finalists have done this year. Just wanted to be clear, so that's where I'm at!h2thaizzo wrote: It was sarcastic, but I guess nobody caught onto that.
Golden Tate
Eric Decker
Mike Williams
Shay Hodge
Arrelious Benn
Damian Williams
Dez Bryant
Jordan Shipley
Brandon Lafell
Danario Alexander
Naaman Roosevelt
Marty Gilyard
Julio Jones
AJ Green
Demaryius Thomas
Dezmon Briscoe
Michael Floyd
Riley Cooper
Terrance Tolliver
There's 19 WR's in college I would surely rate above Freddie Barnes. Here's a link to the guy I would compare Barnes to talent wise http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Edwards.