Archive

Notre Dame is screwed no matter who the coach is.

  • redfalcon
    killdeer wrote:
    rocket31 wrote: notre dame football keeps nbc semi-relevant on saturday afternoons, therefore nbc will keep them as long as notre dame wants them.
    and that knife cuts both ways...the NBC coverage is one of the few things keeping the current Notre Dame football program semi-relevant in FBS football.

    the last I checked, the forums were opinion boards, nothing more. All the golden domers out there who want to shoot the messenger instead of listening to the message provide a glimpse into the same close-minded approach that the ND athletic administration obviously shares which has resulted in the position the Irish football program is in now.

    All this talk about the NBC package highlights one important thing...there is NO other FBS team with a record of 85-61 over the past 12 years that could command an exclusive TV package except ND (without causing guffaws from the network executives). This standing has very little to do with the performance of the team over these twelve years; and everything to do with ND as a historical and legendary program standing on the shoulders of past teams under Rockne, Leahy, Parseghian, and Holtz, among others. Like it or not, these Notre Dame teams during this span have not added to the golden lustre, only tarnished it a bit.

    I am not an ND hater, in fact, I think a strong Irish program is good for college football. However, as the thread originator rightly opined, a coaching change is only the tip of the iceberg...and all those saying that Bob Stoops or Mike Kelly will single-handedly turn the program around have to listen to the echoes of their same voices after Davie, Willingham, and now Weis were let go.
    Thank you, my sentiments exactly.
  • dwccrew
    ccrunner609 wrote: ^^^THat isnt gonna happen anytime in the next 1/2 decade
    Never said it would, just saying it could.
  • sjmvsfscs08
    Okay children, let's settle down. I'll weigh in on this, as I don't feel like studying for my Latin exam. :)

    I'm a huge Notre Dame fan. My life would probably be complete if I got into Notre Dame Law, although that's easier said than done. But I don't hate Ohio State, considering I go to school there. I actually root for the Buckeyes all the time (I felt like Quinn's sister during that Fiesta Bowl though). I'm a big Ohio State supporter, I have three cousins that played sports here. One is practically a legend, as he was a three-time All-American. Another is just a sophomore and should make All-American as well. So when I say "GO BUCKEYES!" I definitely mean it.

    Okay so here are my thoughts:

    redfalcon, you are an idiot. There, I got my ad hominem attack out of the way early :) . It's pretty obvious you have no clue what you're talking about. Notre Dame is screwed until they join a conference? Please. That's ludicrous. Furthermore you didn't bring up any facts or even points to your argument other than "Notre Dame sucks," and making false assumptions about what NBC executives are thinking about Notre Dame.

    Notre Dame needs the Big Ten more than the Big Ten needs Notre Dame? Laughable. Is it the other way around? No. They don't need each other at all. They've coexisted for a hundred years, why all the sudden does Notre Dame need the Big Ten? Notre Dame has an advantageous deal with the Big East, the BCS, and NBC, and until that changes they don't need anyone.

    Will it change? You seem to act like no one cares about Notre Dame, and that they haven't won a National Championship in 25 years. False again. 1988 to present is not 25 years. Considering Ohio State recently ended their 1968-2002 drought (and Michigan had an even worse 1948-1997 drought), it's not like Notre Dame is falling off the face of the earth. Programs have rough times. Oklahoma had it rough in the 1990s, as did Southern Cal. Notre Dame has some problems, but they are all correctable, as well as preventable.

    I'm getting off topic. You say Notre Dame is Senior-loaded. This, more than any other argument you make, makes you look like an idiot the most. Jimmy Clausen? Junior. Golden Tate? Junior. Armando Allen? Junior. Michael Floyd? Sophomore. Manti T'eo? Freshman. Duval Kamara? Junior. Robert Hughes? Junior. The good players on offense are sophomores and juniors; the good players on defense are freshmen and sophomores, with a few seniors mixed in. It's really moot though, because the discussion was about the loss to Michigan, and it shouldn't have happened. (Please though, keep in mind Ohio State scored a mere 14 points on them. They forced five turnovers and came away with 21 points. That's not impressive.)

    I should probably admit now Ohio State is better. Yep. I have absolutely no problem with admitting it. A better team and a better program. So all of you Ohio State blowhards can ease up, I agree with you.

    I'm sorry for the rant, let me end it. redfalcon you are an idiot. NBC renewed their deal with Notre Dame, they are definitely interested in keeping them around. Notre Dame makes $9,000,000/year off of the deal,. They also have a sweet BCS deal, which means the head honchos that run collegiate football care about Notre Dame's presence. Notre Dame has one if, if not, the largest fan base in the country. People care, they are relevant. A coach (or even a defensive coordinator) that could teach kids to tackle could have had Notre Dame undefeated right now. Did I just say undefeated? Yes. That's what they could be if Jon Tenuta stayed at Georgia Tech.
  • Mooney44Cards
  • redfalcon
    Hey moron, facts are facts, ND is one of the most senior laden teams in the country. I have said nothing about the bcs or the big ten, and all I said about NBC was about potential NEW owners, which means the fact that NBC renewe 2 years ago is irrelevant. Notre dame does need a conference, although it doesn't have to be big ten. Pull your head out of your ass, facts are facts.

    6-6 with losses to michigan and uconn. Some talent from sophomores and juniors. Keep it up, buddy.

    And 21 years. I said about 25 in my original post. Whatever.
  • sjmvsfscs08
    True, the Big Ten comment was to tcby99. There's just too much stupidity on this thread to comprehend. But the fact remains, Notre Dame doesn't and will not need a conference any time in the near future. Why does Notre Dame need a conference? Explain it to me.

    Oh that's right, NBC is going to drop Notre Dame. Riiiiiight...and you shit skittles. Notre Dame has one of the largest fan bases in the country, and their schedule is comprised of teams form across the country (good for national TV). Notre Dame games bring in a ton of viewers and thus lots of money.

    You said: The bottom line is ND has no conference, and if NBC drops them, because most of the time the games don't make nearly as much money as the other televisrd games of the day. Granted they were at seperate times today, who do you think makes more money, ND UConn or OSU Michigan? NBC's new owners will no doubt want a bigger piece of the pie."

    This reminded me of Joe Biden. Whenever Joe Biden says "The bottom line is," he has no idea what he's talking about. Moving on though, Michigan-Ohio State is the best rivalry in the country, Notre Dame vs. Connecticut? Yeah, there's a scientific comparison, dumbass. It'd make more sense to weigh Notre Dame-Southern Cal and Michigan-Ohio State. But even that would be silly, as the ratings are based on the whole season, not one game. Also, even if Ohio State had more viewers than Notre Dame (I assume it's close), what's your point? Notre Dame gets $9,000,000/year, whereas Ohio State gets to share their earnings with other members of the conference. Make no mistake, any team in the country wouldn't mind being in Notre Dame's financial position and have the deals they have.

    I almost forgot, how does NBC plan to get a bigger piece of the pie? They aren't ABC. CBS has the SEC and ABC basically runs the rest. Unless NBC wants to start televising Navy and Army (that game is on CBS...oh wait), what are they going to do? Tell us the future of NBC's plans, oh wise and omniscient redfalcon.

    This whole discussion is silly and a complete waste of time. You're a dumbass, and you fail miserably and creating arguments with substance. You actually brought up names like Brian Coughlin, Chris Bathon, and Martin Quintana to make a case than Notre Dame is Senior-loaded? Who the hell are those people? I didn't know they existed until right now. I don't care if Notre Dame loses 9,000 seniors if none of them are any good. Saying goodbye to this class is addition via subtraction for the most part. McCarthy will be missed, but that's about it.
  • KoachKanute
    ccrunner609 wrote: I dont like ND = dumb????


    Yeah thats the ticket.
    No. Combining a singular subject ("opinion") and a plural verb ("seem") = dumb.

    To vballset: ccrunner609 not only has identified himself on JJHuddle as a teacher and a cc coach, but also has posted pictures of himself. He's done FAR more to reveal his identity than I ever could.
  • bo shemmy3337
    OP is crazy IMO. This team gets top 5 talent and they play no one. If they had a good coach this year they would be 10-2 IMO A great coach could be 12-0 with that talent. When are some of you going to realize that good coaching goes a long way. OSU was down and boom JT comes and they are a national power. Florida and Myer are another good example. Nick sabon and Alabama. Good coaches win when they have the talent.

    Recruiting is not hurting either. ND plays on national TV every week. That and school history alone is enough to get you a top 15 class every year.
  • redfalcon
    No, recruits don't give. Shit about history. Recrutis want to win.
  • athlete37
    redfalcon wrote: No, recruits don't give. Shit about history. Recrutis want to win.

    Wow, I need a red pen for this post. I'd get to use all of the proofreading symbols I learned in fourth grade....
  • killer_ewok
    redfalcon wrote: No, recruits don't give. Shit about history. Recrutis want to win.
    Me give shit. About history. And me want know who. Greek God "Recrutis" is. Me want win.
  • steel_curtain
    redfalcon wrote: So nine of the seniors aren't on the depth charts. That leaves 22 who are, more than any other team in college football.

    As for NBC, all I am saying is that the new owners may not wnat to keep ND football after 2015.
    The problem is you're dumb as shit. You throw a list of names on there saying Notre Dame is screwed because they're losing all these people like it's a program killer. Then you're acting like its some big deal, when in reality the majority of them don't play. About a quarter of them you listed are walk-ons.

    We get it, you don't like Notre Dame. However, lets not let bias cloud reality. You're bitching about their schedule, but its ranked in the top 25. You're speculating about NBC dropping them and they still have 6 years left on their contract.
  • darbypitcher22
    Ok, so they have Stanford and a Bowl Game left.

    Let's look @ the 2010 schedule:

    9/4 Purdue
    9/11 Michigan
    9/18 @ Michigan State
    9/25 Stanford
    10/2 @ Boston College
    10/9 Pittsburgh
    10/16 Western Michigan
    10/23 @ Navy @ Meadowlands
    10/30 Tulsa
    11/6 Utah
    11/13 Army @ Yankee Stadium
    11/20 USC

    Seems like the schedule is pretty front loaded
  • rocket31
    and amazingly that "front loaded" schedule is still stronger than ohio states this season

    25. notre dame

    54. ohio state

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt09.htm

    as for next year, who knows how difficult it will be?

    before this year many individuals believed it would be a cake walk and it has turned out to be quite the opposite...
  • darbypitcher22
    It would be based on this season. But lets wait till next year before we decide that. You're not used to seeign people like Western Michigan on Notre Dame's schedule
  • sjmvsfscs08
    killer_ewok wrote: Me give shit. About history. And me want know who. Greek God "Recrutis" is. Me want win.
    Greek God Recrutis! hahahahahah If he were Roman, that word would be the dative and ablative plural. Ahhh what we learn when dividing time between Latin and freehuddle idiots. :D
  • rocket31
    darbypitcher22 wrote: It would be based on this season. But lets wait till next year before we decide that. You're not used to seeign people like Western Michigan on Notre Dame's schedule
    seeing western michigans on the schedule is not something i am *happpy* about, but considering the current state of college footballs bcs system, i do not fault them for scheduling such games.
  • sjmvsfscs08
    Looking at that 2010 schedule, there are a lot of easy wins.

    But something about Notre Dame's recent habits with scheduling lesser teams on purpose is that those teams are playing in the biggest games of their season, if not the history of the program. I find it interesting. It's unmeasurable, but I think it's definitely present. Connecticut was playing in the biggest game in their program's history, Notre Dame was playing Connecticut. It's not the same. The same situation will happen when Notre Dame plays Western Michigan, Tulsa, and Utah. Although Notre Dame's talent is far greater, the intensity is tough to match. This doesn't just go for Notre Dame, it goes for all top teams. But, when they are playing Notre Dame it's on national television; even more reason to be stoked.

    Lou Holtz was the first to mention this added element to playing Notre Dame when he retired. He said it cost him a few games, simply because the opposing team's intensity is so difficult to match. Call it an excuse, I just find it interesting.
  • darbypitcher22
    I wouldn't fault them either. People will look at Utah and Tulsa but Utah competes for the Mountain West and Tulsa competes for the CUSA title.
  • centralbucksfan
    I have to agree that no matter who the coach is, ND is in trouble year and probably the year after as well. 33 seniors. Clausen, Tate and FLoyd are as good as gone IMO.
    I am also not sure just how good the talent is at ND. Sure we see the above players....but everyone knows it takes MANY more talented players, along with a talented 2 deep roster and more to make a team and program successful. I obviously don't follow ND as closely as many....but I can't believe the talent that everyone is proclaiming they have, is actually as good as many think except for those handful of obvious ones. Having watched them quite a bit this year, I know there isn't much on the defensive side of the ball.
    Its quite obvious that Weis just isn't that good. But even at that, if they have as much talent as some say, that talent often times can overshadow bad coaching at some point. I am not sure it has this year...which makes me think they just don't have the talent that many think. Recruiting rankings are not always on the money. Who knows...but I think ND is in for a rough few years after this year.
    There is a reason guys like Saban, Meyer, Tressel and Stoops are considered what they are, and why you can only name a handful of them...they are the few..not the norm. Its never as easy as it looks.
  • killer_ewok
    centralbucksfan wrote: I have to agree that no matter who the coach is, ND is in trouble year and probably the year after as well. 33 seniors. Clausen, Tate and FLoyd are as good as gone IMO.
    I am also not sure just how good the talent is at ND. Sure we see the above players....but everyone knows it takes MANY more talented players, along with a talented 2 deep roster and more to make a team and program successful. I obviously don't follow ND as closely as many....but I can't believe the talent that everyone is proclaiming they have, is actually as good as many think except for those handful of obvious ones. Having watched them quite a bit this year, I know there isn't much on the defensive side of the ball.
    Its quite obvious that Weis just isn't that good. But even at that, if they have as much talent as some say, that talent often times can overshadow bad coaching at some point. I am not sure it has this year...which makes me think they just don't have the talent that many think. Recruiting rankings are not always on the money. Who knows...but I think ND is in for a rough few years after this year.
    There is a reason guys like Saban, Meyer, Tressel and Stoops are considered what they are, and why you can only name a handful of them...they are the few..not the norm. Its never as easy as it looks.
    Floyd can't leave after this season.

    While I agree that recruiting rankings aren't always on the money......NFL draft projections and scouts know what they're doing, don't they? Clausen projects as a surefire 1st rounder....maybe even top 10 pick. Talent. Tate projects as a mid-late 1st rounder. Talent. Floyd and Rudolph, IMO, will be both 1st rounders when there times come. Talent. Forget the recruiting rankings for a moment and think bigger picture. There is talent there on the offensive side of the ball and I'm not sure it's debatable.

    FWIW, if the guy that is rumored to be coming in does in fact end up the next head coach at ND....we'll have one of that handful.
  • centralbucksfan
    killer_ewok wrote:
    centralbucksfan wrote: I have to agree that no matter who the coach is, ND is in trouble year and probably the year after as well. 33 seniors. Clausen, Tate and FLoyd are as good as gone IMO.
    I am also not sure just how good the talent is at ND. Sure we see the above players....but everyone knows it takes MANY more talented players, along with a talented 2 deep roster and more to make a team and program successful. I obviously don't follow ND as closely as many....but I can't believe the talent that everyone is proclaiming they have, is actually as good as many think except for those handful of obvious ones. Having watched them quite a bit this year, I know there isn't much on the defensive side of the ball.
    Its quite obvious that Weis just isn't that good. But even at that, if they have as much talent as some say, that talent often times can overshadow bad coaching at some point. I am not sure it has this year...which makes me think they just don't have the talent that many think. Recruiting rankings are not always on the money. Who knows...but I think ND is in for a rough few years after this year.
    There is a reason guys like Saban, Meyer, Tressel and Stoops are considered what they are, and why you can only name a handful of them...they are the few..not the norm. Its never as easy as it looks.
    Floyd can't leave after this season.

    While I agree that recruiting rankings aren't always on the money......NFL draft projections and scouts know what they're doing, don't they? Clausen projects as a surefire 1st rounder....maybe even top 10 pick. Talent. Tate projects as a mid-late 1st rounder. Talent. Floyd and Rudolph, IMO, will be both 1st rounders when there times come. Talent. Forget the recruiting rankings for a moment and think bigger picture. There is talent there on the offensive side of the ball and I'm not sure it's debatable.

    FWIW, if the guy that is rumored to be coming in does in fact end up the next head coach at ND....we'll have one of that handful.
    Read what I wrote. I said there is a handful of talent. But it takes A LOT more then that for a team and a program to be successful. I think Clausen in the best QB in the country, and it doesn't get better then Tate or Floyd. But just as it was a few years ago with Quinn and the others....its the depth that is the difference between ND and others. I think that is still the major issue with ND. That and the obviously lack of talent on defense they have. Again, I don't follow ND as closely as you do Killer...but where all those highly rated classes have any defensive players in them?
    Rumor coach? No offense...but we have heard this everytime ND has had an opening. I'll believe it when I see it actually happen.
  • killdeer
    killer_ewok wrote:
    .

    ......NFL draft projections and scouts know what they're doing, don't they? Clausen projects as a surefire 1st rounder....maybe even top 10 pick. Talent.......
    Agree. it's worked out just like they expected for Quinn, so far....:angel:
  • killer_ewok
    centralbucksfan wrote:
    killer_ewok wrote:
    centralbucksfan wrote: I have to agree that no matter who the coach is, ND is in trouble year and probably the year after as well. 33 seniors. Clausen, Tate and FLoyd are as good as gone IMO.
    I am also not sure just how good the talent is at ND. Sure we see the above players....but everyone knows it takes MANY more talented players, along with a talented 2 deep roster and more to make a team and program successful. I obviously don't follow ND as closely as many....but I can't believe the talent that everyone is proclaiming they have, is actually as good as many think except for those handful of obvious ones. Having watched them quite a bit this year, I know there isn't much on the defensive side of the ball.
    Its quite obvious that Weis just isn't that good. But even at that, if they have as much talent as some say, that talent often times can overshadow bad coaching at some point. I am not sure it has this year...which makes me think they just don't have the talent that many think. Recruiting rankings are not always on the money. Who knows...but I think ND is in for a rough few years after this year.
    There is a reason guys like Saban, Meyer, Tressel and Stoops are considered what they are, and why you can only name a handful of them...they are the few..not the norm. Its never as easy as it looks.
    Floyd can't leave after this season.

    While I agree that recruiting rankings aren't always on the money......NFL draft projections and scouts know what they're doing, don't they? Clausen projects as a surefire 1st rounder....maybe even top 10 pick. Talent. Tate projects as a mid-late 1st rounder. Talent. Floyd and Rudolph, IMO, will be both 1st rounders when there times come. Talent. Forget the recruiting rankings for a moment and think bigger picture. There is talent there on the offensive side of the ball and I'm not sure it's debatable.

    FWIW, if the guy that is rumored to be coming in does in fact end up the next head coach at ND....we'll have one of that handful.
    Read what I wrote. I said there is a handful of talent. But it takes A LOT more then that for a team and a program to be successful. I think Clausen in the best QB in the country, and it doesn't get better then Tate or Floyd. But just as it was a few years ago with Quinn and the others....its the depth that is the difference between ND and others. I think that is still the major issue with ND. That and the obviously lack of talent on defense they have. Again, I don't follow ND as closely as you do Killer...but where all those highly rated classes have any defensive players in them?
    Rumor coach? No offense...but we have heard this everytime ND has had an opening. I'll believe it when I see it actually happen.
    I read what you wrote. Is depth an issue at some positions? Yes. The highly rated recruits have mostly been on the offensive side of the ball. That's pretty obvious. ND's depth is much better than it was a few years ago. The coaching is the issue. The defense lacks talent in certain areas but how much of it is coaching and schemes? A LOT IMO.

    And I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch with the coach rumor and that's all it is right now. We'll see what happens. I'm pretty confident that the info is reliable but we'll have to wait and see. I'll believe it when I see it too. We won't have any choice then. :D
  • killer_ewok
    killdeer wrote:
    killer_ewok wrote:
    .

    ......NFL draft projections and scouts know what they're doing, don't they? Clausen projects as a surefire 1st rounder....maybe even top 10 pick. Talent.......
    Agree. it's worked out just like they expected for Quinn, so far....:angel:
    Well, he hasn't had much of a chance. Funny you mentioned that though because he had a pretty good game today.