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Michigan Expectations and RichRod's Future

  • rmolin73
    Dude are you serious?
  • bigkahuna
    Which dude?
  • rmolin73
    krambman
  • krambman
    rmolin73 wrote: krambman
    Serious about what?

    And thanks for getting my username right, most don't.
  • vball10set
    http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100525/SPORTS17/100529805
  • krambman
    Two years probation? What does that actually mean? Does that mean that they won't get in any real trouble unless they violate more rules in the next two years?

    If that is the case, it seems to me that the punishment fits the crime. I think it needs to be made clear that you can't violate practice times as much as they did, but I don't think they should lose scholarships or be banned from the post season for it (especially because it didn't seem to have a positive effect on the teams performance).
  • OldDanTucker
    krambman wrote:
    Two years probation? What does that actually mean? Does that mean that they won't get in any real trouble unless they violate more rules in the next two years?

    If that is the case, it seems to me that the punishment fits the crime. I think it needs to be made clear that you can't violate practice times as much as they did, but I don't think they should lose scholarships or be banned from the post season for it (especially because it didn't seem to have a positive effect on the teams performance).
    20 mins a day? Im sure OSU, USC, Florida, and all the other major schools in the country are staying in the time limits right. This whole investigation is a joke and if the NCAA doesn't except the self-impossed punishment that UM has sent out then it will prove once again how big a joke they are.
  • bartsimpson
    As a Buckeye fan I really hope he stays forever.....just like I wanted Charlie Weis to stay at ND forever.....it's make for good comedy every Saturday afternoon....lol
  • krambman
    OldDanTucker wrote:
    krambman wrote:
    Two years probation? What does that actually mean? Does that mean that they won't get in any real trouble unless they violate more rules in the next two years?

    If that is the case, it seems to me that the punishment fits the crime. I think it needs to be made clear that you can't violate practice times as much as they did, but I don't think they should lose scholarships or be banned from the post season for it (especially because it didn't seem to have a positive effect on the teams performance).
    20 mins a day? Im sure OSU, USC, Florida, and all the other major schools in the country are staying in the time limits right. This whole investigation is a joke and if the NCAA doesn't except the self-impossed punishment that UM has sent out then it will prove once again how big a joke they are.
    20 minutes a day may be the official report, but the initial allegations were much more. The few students who brought this issue to light were claiming that they were often held in practice and mandatory meetings for upwards of 12 hours on Sundays after games. That three times the daily limit for in-season practices (4 hours) and over half of the weekly limit (20 hours). So if 20 minutes was really all they were going over then it's not even an issue. However, do you think that several current students are going to come forward over a few minutes a day? Please don't be that naive. 20 minutes a day may be the official report, but we all know that they were in violation well beyond that.
  • Zombienation
    bartsimpson wrote: As a Buckeye fan I really hope he stays forever.....just like I wanted Charlie Weis to stay at ND forever.....it's make for good comedy every Saturday afternoon....lol
    douche.
  • SQ_Crazies
    I felt the same about Weis. But not Dick Rod. I want Michigan to be back up at the top--even if it means OSU doesn't win "The Game" every year. It's good for the conference, good for the rivalry and good for college football. Plus, OSU/UM games that end 42-7 suck ass. That's not how it's supposed to be.
  • bartsimpson
    Zombienation wrote:
    bartsimpson wrote: As a Buckeye fan I really hope he stays forever.....just like I wanted Charlie Weis to stay at ND forever.....it's make for good comedy every Saturday afternoon....lol
    douche.
    :P Waaaaawhaaaaawhaaaa :P
  • cbus4life
    SQ_Crazies wrote: I felt the same about Weis. But not Dick Rod. I want Michigan to be back up at the top--even if it means OSU doesn't win "The Game" every year. It's good for the conference, good for the rivalry and good for college football. Plus, OSU/UM games that end 42-7 suck ass. That's not how it's supposed to be.
    This.
  • WebFire
    krambman wrote:
    OldDanTucker wrote:
    krambman wrote:
    Two years probation? What does that actually mean? Does that mean that they won't get in any real trouble unless they violate more rules in the next two years?

    If that is the case, it seems to me that the punishment fits the crime. I think it needs to be made clear that you can't violate practice times as much as they did, but I don't think they should lose scholarships or be banned from the post season for it (especially because it didn't seem to have a positive effect on the teams performance).
    20 mins a day? Im sure OSU, USC, Florida, and all the other major schools in the country are staying in the time limits right. This whole investigation is a joke and if the NCAA doesn't except the self-impossed punishment that UM has sent out then it will prove once again how big a joke they are.
    20 minutes a day may be the official report, but the initial allegations were much more. The few students who brought this issue to light were claiming that they were often held in practice and mandatory meetings for upwards of 12 hours on Sundays after games. That three times the daily limit for in-season practices (4 hours) and over half of the weekly limit (20 hours). So if 20 minutes was really all they were going over then it's not even an issue. However, do you think that several current students are going to come forward over a few minutes a day? Please don't be that naive. 20 minutes a day may be the official report, but we all know that they were in violation well beyond that.
    What current students said this? And you do know the source of the allegations right? And the history of that source?

    Also, UM brought in 3rd party NCAA investigators to help out. I'm sure they would have found evidence if such extreme claims were true.
  • vball10set
    SQ_Crazies wrote: Plus, OSU/UM games that end 42-7 suck ass. That's not how it's supposed to be.
    I agree,but it is nice every once in a while ;)
  • krambman
    WebFire wrote: What current students said this? And you do know the source of the allegations right? And the history of that source?

    Also, UM brought in 3rd party NCAA investigators to help out. I'm sure they would have found evidence if such extreme claims were true.
    I'll answer the second part of you post first. You can bring in all of the investigators you want, but remember, we're talking about practice violations from summer 2008 - summer 2009. Other than interviewing former and current players (currently players who wouldn't want to hurt their program since they are still playing there) and staff, how would you really determine if the program broke practice time rules? I supposed you could go and look at the practice logs, except that they are filled out by the coaches, and they were never actually filled out or filed.

    Besides, when this story broke last fall Rodriguez said, "We know the practice and off-season rules, and we stay within the guidelines. We follow the rules and have always been completely committed to being compliant with all NCAA rules." Clearly that wasn't true as Rodriguez himself has had to admit that they did exceed the allowed practice time. Also, the coach that was fired was let go because he denied being at certain team activities but was found lying by the investigators. If Rodriguez lied then, and if other coaches were lying, what's to stop them from lying now (or at least not telling the whole truth about how much they actually practiced)?

    As for the first part of your post:
    Players on the 2008 and 2009 teams described training and practice sessions that far exceeded limits set by the NCAA
    The players, who did not want to be identified because they feared repercussions from coaches, said the violations occurred routinely at the direction of Rodriguez’s staff.
    “It’s one of those things where you can’t say something,” one current Wolverine said. “If you say something, they’re going to say you’re a lazy person and don’t want to work hard.”

    That player was one of six current or former players who gave lengthy, detailed and nearly identical descriptions of the program to the Free Press.
    The players say they routinely are required to work out or practice many more hours throughout the year than the NCAA allows. They also say members of Rodriguez’s staff have broken rules by monitoring off-season scrimmages.
    http://www.freep.com/article/20090829/SPORTS06/90829021/Michigan-football-program-broke-rules--players-say (Bold added)
    Former Michigan wide receiver Toney Clemons told ESPN on Sunday night that all of the allegations reported are accurate.

    "The allegations are true," Clemons said. "Nothing is fabricated or exaggerated in that story. I was there on Sundays from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. or 11 a.m. to 10 p.m. depending on if guys needed treatment. You were there daylight to nighttime."
    On Saturday night, another former Michigan starter and a current Michigan player who asked for anonymity started said the reports of excessive training and football-related activities were accurate.
    Those regulations allow players to spend eight hours a week on mandatory workouts during the offseason. However, players told the Free Press that they have spent two to three times that amount on required workouts.
    A current member of the Michigan football team, who has started, also told ESPN his in-season Sundays at the football facility lasted from 10 a.m. to 9:30 p.m., although he acknowledged the first two hours were spent in treatment, which is not counted against the restricted hours.

    The player said he worked out about twice as many hours as the allotted eight per week in the offseason. He asked strength coaches why the workouts seemed excessive and was told that some parts of the exercises, such as core work and injury prevention, were not counted as required.

    The player said the strength coach told him that the workout plan had been approved by the NCAA.
    The Free Press said five of the 10 current or former players it interviewed gave similar accounts of how the program is run and a sixth player confirmed most of the descriptions. Other players gave a general idea of the program. None disputed the allegations, the newspaper said.
    The players acknowledged they had signed forms stating NCAA rules had been followed and had not told the university's compliance department about their concerns. One player told the Free Press that athletes would get in trouble if they didn't sign.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4432956 (Bold and italics added)
    “Yes, we were there all day it seemed sometimes,” said (Morgan) Trent, a former Michigan cornerback now in his first season with the Cincinnati Bengals. “But if you expect to win, that’s the sacrifice you make. I was a senior (last season under Rodriguez) — I just wanted to win, that’s all.”
    “Twenty hours is a very, very small portion of what you do, especially if you’re a quarterback at a high-profile school,” (Chad) Henne, now with the Miami Dolphins, said in a phone interview Sunday. “Twenty hours isn’t enough for you. You have to be in there by yourself, studying film, no coaches around, and doing it on your own.
    http://michigansportscenter.com/2009/08/toney-clemons-morgan-trent-chad-henne-comment-on-allegations.html (Bold added)

    Clearly it as not just former players who reported the practice violations, but current players as well. It also appears that they all gave their reports independently of each other. And even those interviewed who didn't report violations didn't deny them either.

    Also, even if Clemons was a disgruntled former Wolverine, it's clear that he wasn't the only source (or the first or primary source) of the allegations, and other current players, including starters, corroborated his claims.

    Morgan Trent even acknowledged that they exceeded practice limits under Rodriguez, but justified it by saying that it was necessary. Henne also said it takes more than 20 hours a week to be successful and I agree. However, there's a big difference between exceeding that time because you are being required to be there (as was the case here) and spending extra time on your own preparing, as Henne put it, without coaches and on your own.