YOU Make the Call

• ernest_t_bass

  

  The baseball is hit to left center field. Center fielder catches it in mid air just as he collides with the left fielder, which causes the ballglove of the center fielder to fall off his hand and onto the ground. The glove comes to rest on the ground facing up with the ball still in it. The ball never left the glove and never contacted the ground. The base runners are running with two outs BEFORE the pitch, and there lays the outfielders and the glove on the ground. The glove, with the ball in it, is laying all by itself. WHAT WOULD YOU CALL?
  
  Can't find the correct ruling anywhere in the rule book.
• BlueDevil11

  

  I would have to call it a catch. Since the fielderdid not throw the glove or move it off of his hand intentionally, and the ball remained in the glove I would say the batter is out. What was called?
• bartsimpson

  I also think that it's an out. I know you can't purposely throw your glove, but I don't think the fact that it fell off after the catch would affect the call.
• Bigdogg

  If the ball is not lodged in the glove and the glove came off accidentally, then play on, the ball is live. This dose not meet the definition of a catch, so it is not an out.
• bartsimpson

  talked to my brother in law who is an umpire. He's never had to make a call like this, but based on what he could find, it looks like a judgement call as to whether or not the catch was made BEFORE the glove came off. We can't watch the play so there's no way to know based on this description
• ts1227

  

  I would think live ball.
  
  Possession by the player all the way through the catch is what I believe would matter. Regardless of if it falls out of the glove, the glove falls off, whatever... the player is not controlling the ball.
• Darkon

  

  Playere has to demonstrate control. This is a judgement call by the umpire.
  If so it's an out.
  If not, live ball.
• darbypitcher22

  

  Player must demonstrate complete control of the baseball throughout the duration of the catch.
  
  Live Ball
• Swamp Fox

  If the glove comes off, doesn't the person who "catches" the ball have to demonstrate control all the way to the ground. If the glove is no longer on the outfielder, I can't see this being a legitimate catch.
• iref iump

  Easy one. No control. No catch.
• Bigdogg

  Had a play similar to this over the weekend. Left fielder makes a nice running catch, takes a few steps then rolls to the ground and the ball falls out. He flips the ball to the center fielder while still laying on the ground. I yell no catch and signal the safe call. First baseman starts mouthing off that should have been an out. I respond he has to maintain control through out the catch and have voluntary release.
  
  I Look in the dug out and both his coaches are talking to themselves and smiling at me like I am the dumbest umpire they ever saw. After the inning is over, the third base coach from the other team says nice catch to the right fielder. I just shake my head and turn away.
• Wooball

  

  3 steps with the ball in his glove isn't enough time to have considered maintaining control? I guess at what point do you consider the player to have demonstrated control and the catch to have been made? I would say if he was able to take a few steps and brace for contact with the ground he would have demonstrated control.
• Bigdogg

  Wooball wrote: 3 steps with the ball in his glove isn't enough time to have considered maintaining control? I guess at what point do you consider the player to have demonstrated control and the catch to have been made? I would say if he was able to take a few steps and brace for contact with the ground he would have demonstrated control.

  You have not been paying attention have you. It doesn't matter how many steps he took. He has to have control throughout the whole catch and voluntary release of the ball.
• Wooball

  

  I was paying attention. I understand it doesn't matter how many steps he took. I am assuming demonstrating control portion of this is a judgment call. At what point do you ignore the voluntary release? Say its the 3rd out of the inning and F8 catches a fly ball. Instead of throwing it in he plans on running it into the infield. He is talking to F7 and trips over the lip of the infield, hits the ground and drops the ball. No voluntary release. Safe?
• bases_loaded

  

  Bigdogg wrote: Had a play similar to this over the weekend. Left fielder makes a nice running catch, takes a few steps then rolls to the ground and the ball falls out. He flips the ball to the center fielder while still laying on the ground. I yell no catch and signal the safe call. First baseman starts mouthing off that should have been an out. I respond he has to maintain control through out the catch and have voluntary release.
  
  I Look in the dug out and both his coaches are talking to themselves and smiling at me like I am the dumbest umpire they ever saw. After the inning is over, the third base coach from the other team says nice catch to the right fielder. I just shake my head and turn away.

  You made the wrong call. You even call it a catch in your description. You know why the coaches were laughing? Because they probably played alot of baseball in their time and know it was a catch, unlike most punk ass umpires who were never good enough to play the game so they get their revenge by doing a job that makes them the center of attention.
• Bigdogg

  bases_loaded wrote:

  Bigdogg wrote: Had a play similar to this over the weekend. Left fielder makes a nice running catch, takes a few steps then rolls to the ground and the ball falls out. He flips the ball to the center fielder while still laying on the ground. I yell no catch and signal the safe call. First baseman starts mouthing off that should have been an out. I respond he has to maintain control through out the catch and have voluntary release.
  
  I Look in the dug out and both his coaches are talking to themselves and smiling at me like I am the dumbest umpire they ever saw. After the inning is over, the third base coach from the other team says nice catch to the right fielder. I just shake my head and turn away.

  You made the wrong call. You even call it a catch in your description. You know why the coaches were laughing? Because they probably played alot of baseball in their time and know it was a catch, unlike most punk ass umpires who were never good enough to play the game so they get their revenge by doing a job that makes them the center of attention.

  Yes having played and coached automatically make you an expert on the rules. Great answer, you are brilliant.
  
  NFHS Casebook 2.9.1 C page 16
  B1 hits a fly ball to F8. F8 gets the ball in his hands and it is dropped (a) When he falls to the ground and rolls over; or (b) When he collides with a fielder or wall; or (c) When he starts to throw to the infield. RULING: In (a) and (b) it is not a catch. In (c) it is a legal catch if the umpire rules that the ball was dropped as the fielder voluntarily removed the ball from the glove.
  
  Try actually reading a rule book and not just guessing once in a while.
• bases_loaded

  

  All I am saying is the fact that the coaches for both teams were laughing at your call and the fact that you had to come on here and ask if you made the right call (we have to go by your description btw) makes me think you missed this one. I will take the coach and players take on it over an umpire anyday.
• bases_loaded

  

  Bigdogg wrote: After the inning is over, the third base coach from the other team says nice catch to the right fielder. I just shake my head and turn away.

  
  This is all I needed to see. And the fact that the other coaches were laughing and shaking their heads makes me think you are regarded as a joke of an umpire and it wasn't worth their time to come out and argue with you.
• Bigdogg

  bases_loaded wrote:

  Bigdogg wrote: After the inning is over, the third base coach from the other team says nice catch to the right fielder. I just shake my head and turn away.

  
  This is all I needed to see. And the fact that the other coaches were laughing and shaking their heads makes me think you are regarded as a joke of an umpire and it wasn't worth their time to come out and argue with you.

  You may be right or maybe neither coach knew what a catch actually is. Maybe you should get your license and start umpiring since you are so knowledgeable. I would love to learn a few lessons from an expert like you.
• Bigdogg

  bases_loaded wrote: All I am saying is the fact that the coaches for both teams were laughing at your call and the fact that you had to come on here and ask if you made the right call (we have to go by your description btw) makes me think you missed this one. I will take the coach and players take on it over an umpire anyday.

  I did not come on here and ask if the call was right or wrong. If it makes you feel any better, a umpire that was waiting on the next game came up to me and told me that I made the correct call after the game was over.
  
  I have missed my fair share over the years. Everybody has. When I do I resolve to get the next one right.
• bases_loaded

  

  Bigdogg wrote:

  bases_loaded wrote:
  I have missed my fair share over the years. Everybody has. When I do I resolve to get the next one right.

  I would hope you try to get them all right.
  
  I would never want to become what I despise so much, the necessary evil that is the umpire.

• Wooball

  

  Do you have an answer to my scenario?
• Bigdogg

  Wooball wrote: Do you have an answer to my scenario?

  I have an out in your scenario. His action was not part of the continuing act of fielding the ball.
• Bigdogg

  Here is a good example of a similar play. The umpire got it right.
  
  http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7725517
• stroups

  

  Bigdogg wrote: Here is a good example of a similar play. The umpire got it right.
  
  http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7725517

  To me, thats a catch. He lost control when he was trying to remove the ball from his glove.