YOU Make the Call
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Bigdogg
The major league umpires that worked the game along with the head of major league baseball umpires disagrees with your humble opinion. What is your background?stroups wrote:
To me, thats a catch. He lost control when he was trying to remove the ball from his glove.Bigdogg wrote: Here is a good example of a similar play. The umpire got it right.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7725517 -
stroups
My background is playing baseball my entire life, which includes winning a state championship and playing in college (yeah I know.... internet credentials)
In that instance I thought he caught the ball and was bringing his other hand up to remove the ball in which he lost control and the ball came out. But thats just my 2 cents -
BigdoggJust because you played the game don't mean that you are well versed in all the rules. I don't know a single umpire that did not play at some level. You would be very surprised of how many different rules there actually are. Its much harder then you would ever beleive to know the proper application of the rules. I am still learning something new all the time even after 16 years of umpiring.
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iref iump
bases_loaded, seems you have a lot of pent-up umpire resentment going on here. In 17 yrs. of working games I've seen a lot of immaturity and lack of respect for umpires. You seem destined to join their ranks.bases_loaded wrote:
You made the wrong call. You even call it a catch in your description. You know why the coaches were laughing? Because they probably played alot of baseball in their time and know it was a catch, unlike most punk ass umpires who were never good enough to play the game so they get their revenge by doing a job that makes them the center of attention.Bigdogg wrote: Had a play similar to this over the weekend. Left fielder makes a nice running catch, takes a few steps then rolls to the ground and the ball falls out. He flips the ball to the center fielder while still laying on the ground. I yell no catch and signal the safe call. First baseman starts mouthing off that should have been an out. I respond he has to maintain control through out the catch and have voluntary release.
I Look in the dug out and both his coaches are talking to themselves and smiling at me like I am the dumbest umpire they ever saw. After the inning is over, the third base coach from the other team says nice catch to the right fielder. I just shake my head and turn away. -
stroups
I get what you are saying but just because I played the game doesn't mean I don't know the rules. When I played I was a catcher and I came across some great umps and my fair share of dumb asses. What i'm saying is just because you're(not you specifically) an ump doesn't mean your're the smartest person on the field.Bigdogg wrote: Just because you played the game don't mean that you are well versed in all the rules. I don't know a single umpire that did not play at some level. You would be very surprised of how many different rules there actually are. Its much harder then you would ever beleive to know the proper application of the rules. I am still learning something new all the time even after 16 years of umpiring. -
Bigdogg
No but you are in the top three smartest.stroups wrote:
I get what you are saying but just because I played the game doesn't mean I don't know the rules. When I played I was a catcher and I came across some great umps and my fair share of dumb asses. What i'm saying is just because you're(not you specifically) an ump doesn't mean your're the smartest person on the field.Bigdogg wrote: Just because you played the game don't mean that you are well versed in all the rules. I don't know a single umpire that did not play at some level. You would be very surprised of how many different rules there actually are. Its much harder then you would ever beleive to know the proper application of the rules. I am still learning something new all the time even after 16 years of umpiring. -
GhmothwdwhsoI've got another one for you. Three umps working the game.
Runners on first and second, with one out.
Grounder hit to the first baseman who fields it, steps on first and believes that was the third out, tosses the ball to the first base ump. Ump catches the ball, obviously not knowing how many outs there were.
Runners that were on first and second advance to home, as the fielding team is running into the dugout.
What's the call?, after the ump figures out that the play made at first was only the second out ? -
Bigdogg
Not enough information. What happened after that?Ghmothwdwhso wrote: I've got another one for you. Three umps working the game.
Runners on first and second, with one out.
Grounder hit to the first baseman who fields it, steps on first and believes that was the third out, tosses the ball to the first base ump. Ump catches the ball, obviously not knowing how many outs there were.
Runners that were on first and second advance to home, as the fielding team is running into the dugout.
What's the call?, after the ump figures out that the play made at first was only the second out ? -
iref iumpThe poor SOB U2 has to go to the coaches and explain that the ball became dead when he handled it and the runners are going to be put at the base they attained at that time. He'll be needing a repair to the seat of his gray slacks after the ass chewing he'll get. For that very reason I never catch a ball thrown to me by a player unless I know we're in a dead ball situation.
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Ghmothwdwhso
What you described is exactly what resulted, in the end.iref iump wrote: The poor SOB U2 has to go to the coaches and explain that the ball became dead when he handled it and the runners are going to be put at the base they attained at that time. He'll be needing a repair to the seat of his gray slacks after the ass chewing he'll get. For that very reason I never catch a ball thrown to me by a player unless I know we're in a dead ball situation.
I had sent my runners that were originally on 1st and 2nd all the way to the plate, and thought they should have scored, but they were sent back to 2nd and 3rd. Lucky me, our next guy strikes out, for our 3rd out. We lost the game by 1 run. This happened in the bottom of the 6th in a 7 inning game BTW.
When I asked U2 why he touched the ball, he said "What would you do when someone tosses you a ball?" I responded, "I expect you to know how many outs there are, and if it's only 2, avoid the ball"
My arguement didn't get very far, but lasted a while.
As we were going out, into the field, for the top of the 7th, I yelled to our 1st baseman, "When they have a runner on third and the ball is hit to you, step on the bag, and toss the ball to U2", then they can't score.
That comment didn't do us any favors, but was appropriate. -
Bigdogg
The result of the play was the same that would have happened had the first baseman not tossed the ball to the umpire. I agree that the umpire screwed up and should not have handled a live ball. Do you think that your runner would have scored from third?Ghmothwdwhso wrote:
What you described is exactly what resulted, in the end.iref iump wrote: The poor SOB U2 has to go to the coaches and explain that the ball became dead when he handled it and the runners are going to be put at the base they attained at that time. He'll be needing a repair to the seat of his gray slacks after the ass chewing he'll get. For that very reason I never catch a ball thrown to me by a player unless I know we're in a dead ball situation.
I had sent my runners that were originally on 1st and 2nd all the way to the plate, and thought they should have scored, but they were sent back to 2nd and 3rd. Lucky me, our next guy strikes out, for our 3rd out. We lost the game by 1 run. This happened in the bottom of the 6th in a 7 inning game BTW.
When I asked U2 why he touched the ball, he said "What would you do when someone tosses you a ball?" I responded, "I expect you to know how many outs there are, and if it's only 2, avoid the ball"
My arguement didn't get very far, but lasted a while.
As we were going out, into the field, for the top of the 7th, I yelled to our 1st baseman, "When they have a runner on third and the ball is hit to you, step on the bag, and toss the ball to U2", then they can't score.
That comment didn't do us any favors, but was appropriate.
I think your comment to your 1st baseman was way inappropriate and out of line. What you fail to remember is that high school baseball is an extension of the classroom. Yes the umpired screwed up. The lesson and example you taught your team in response was just as bad and your AD should had reprimanded your behavior for it. -
Wooball
Bigdogg wrote:
The result of the play was the same that would have happened had the first baseman not tossed the ball to the umpire. I agree that the umpire screwed up and should not have handled a live ball. Do you think that your runner would have scored from third?Ghmothwdwhso wrote:
What you described is exactly what resulted, in the end.iref iump wrote: The poor SOB U2 has to go to the coaches and explain that the ball became dead when he handled it and the runners are going to be put at the base they attained at that time. He'll be needing a repair to the seat of his gray slacks after the ass chewing he'll get. For that very reason I never catch a ball thrown to me by a player unless I know we're in a dead ball situation.
I had sent my runners that were originally on 1st and 2nd all the way to the plate, and thought they should have scored, but they were sent back to 2nd and 3rd. Lucky me, our next guy strikes out, for our 3rd out. We lost the game by 1 run. This happened in the bottom of the 6th in a 7 inning game BTW.
When I asked U2 why he touched the ball, he said "What would you do when someone tosses you a ball?" I responded, "I expect you to know how many outs there are, and if it's only 2, avoid the ball"
My arguement didn't get very far, but lasted a while.
As we were going out, into the field, for the top of the 7th, I yelled to our 1st baseman, "When they have a runner on third and the ball is hit to you, step on the bag, and toss the ball to U2", then they can't score.
That comment didn't do us any favors, but was appropriate.
I think your comment to your 1st baseman was way inappropriate and out of line. What you fail to remember is that high school baseball is an extension of the classroom. Yes the umpired screwed up. The lesson and example you taught your team in response was just as bad and your AD should had reprimanded your behavior for it.
Give me a break, rabbit ears. -
Bigdogg
Is that what you tell the building principal when he comes into your room to discuss how you screwed up in front of the students?Wooball wrote:Bigdogg wrote:
The result of the play was the same that would have happened had the first baseman not tossed the ball to the umpire. I agree that the umpire screwed up and should not have handled a live ball. Do you think that your runner would have scored from third?Ghmothwdwhso wrote:
What you described is exactly what resulted, in the end.iref iump wrote: The poor SOB U2 has to go to the coaches and explain that the ball became dead when he handled it and the runners are going to be put at the base they attained at that time. He'll be needing a repair to the seat of his gray slacks after the ass chewing he'll get. For that very reason I never catch a ball thrown to me by a player unless I know we're in a dead ball situation.
I had sent my runners that were originally on 1st and 2nd all the way to the plate, and thought they should have scored, but they were sent back to 2nd and 3rd. Lucky me, our next guy strikes out, for our 3rd out. We lost the game by 1 run. This happened in the bottom of the 6th in a 7 inning game BTW.
When I asked U2 why he touched the ball, he said "What would you do when someone tosses you a ball?" I responded, "I expect you to know how many outs there are, and if it's only 2, avoid the ball"
My arguement didn't get very far, but lasted a while.
As we were going out, into the field, for the top of the 7th, I yelled to our 1st baseman, "When they have a runner on third and the ball is hit to you, step on the bag, and toss the ball to U2", then they can't score.
That comment didn't do us any favors, but was appropriate.
I think your comment to your 1st baseman was way inappropriate and out of line. What you fail to remember is that high school baseball is an extension of the classroom. Yes the umpired screwed up. The lesson and example you taught your team in response was just as bad and your AD should had reprimanded your behavior for it.
Give me a break, rabbit ears. -
Wooball
#1 - I am not a teacher, but even so the playing field is a time to teach and learn, but it is not the same as the classroom. If so, then teachers should start making students run poles for acting up or making mental mistakes. And there should be parents waiting outside of every class to critique their performance and confront them because their son didn't get a chance to speak in class today and it is going to ruin his shot at a scholarship. Or question their decision on how to present the topic of the day.
#2 comparing an umpire to the building principal? Don't get carried away, yes you have control of the game when the first pitch is thrown and should be respected. But, no one is there to see you and it is a good day when no one remembers you were even there.
Was the comment unnecessary? Sure it was. But to suggest he should be reprimanded by his AD for that comment seems a bit extreme, and something that a discussion with his team after the game, inning or the next practice couldn't fix. In fact they probably will forget that it was even said within a few minutes. The mistake the umpire made will last a bit longer and think the coach did a pretty decent job of keeping his cool. I also think the umpire realized what a major mistake he made and gave the coach a little bit extra leeway, something I'm sure you would not have done after reading your previous statement. -
Bigdogg
Your views are not the ones shared by the OHSAA and their members schools. If you are a coach at the high school level you should know this. If you are just a fanboy, there is no use wasting any more of my time.Wooball wrote: #1 - I am not a teacher, but even so the playing field is a time to teach and learn, but it is not the same as the classroom. If so, then teachers should start making students run poles for acting up or making mental mistakes. And there should be parents waiting outside of every class to critique their performance and confront them because their son didn't get a chance to speak in class today and it is going to ruin his shot at a scholarship. Or question their decision on how to present the topic of the day.
#2 comparing an umpire to the building principal? Don't get carried away, yes you have control of the game when the first pitch is thrown and should be respected. But, no one is there to see you and it is a good day when no one remembers you were even there.
Was the comment unnecessary? Sure it was. But to suggest he should be reprimanded by his AD for that comment seems a bit extreme, and something that a discussion with his team after the game, inning or the next practice couldn't fix. In fact they probably will forget that it was even said within a few minutes. The mistake the umpire made will last a bit longer and think the coach did a pretty decent job of keeping his cool. I also think the umpire realized what a major mistake he made and gave the coach a little bit extra leeway, something I'm sure you would not have done after reading your previous statement.
As far as the comment the coach made to the kid, I would not have responded in any way to it. I know lots of A.D.s that would address it with the coach had they became aware of it. I have personally seen it happen many times.
If you are a coach, maybe a quick review of this link would serve you well before you get to take mandatory one after you get ejected. With your attitude it's just a matter of time.
http://www.ohsaa.org/RTG/Resources/fairplay/coaches.htm -
bases_loaded
Destined to join their ranks? I have my 20 years of playing in, I no longer play for various reasons, one being how terrible umpires have become in my area. You ref, You Ump, you probably never played a meaningful game in your life.iref iump wrote:
bases_loaded, seems you have a lot of pent-up umpire resentment going on here. In 17 yrs. of working games I've seen a lot of immaturity and lack of respect for umpires. You seem destined to join their ranks.bases_loaded wrote:
You made the wrong call. You even call it a catch in your description. You know why the coaches were laughing? Because they probably played alot of baseball in their time and know it was a catch, unlike most punk ass umpires who were never good enough to play the game so they get their revenge by doing a job that makes them the center of attention.Bigdogg wrote: Had a play similar to this over the weekend. Left fielder makes a nice running catch, takes a few steps then rolls to the ground and the ball falls out. He flips the ball to the center fielder while still laying on the ground. I yell no catch and signal the safe call. First baseman starts mouthing off that should have been an out. I respond he has to maintain control through out the catch and have voluntary release.
I Look in the dug out and both his coaches are talking to themselves and smiling at me like I am the dumbest umpire they ever saw. After the inning is over, the third base coach from the other team says nice catch to the right fielder. I just shake my head and turn away.