Ohio Chatter DEV

pmoney25

Zoltan wrote: Just because something requires skill or technique does not mean it is not barbaric. I am sure it would require some skill to kill another man in a sword fight, but it would still be barbaric. I have watched MMA in bars and from my experience the things the fans enjoy most of are guys getting knocked out cold and the blood. It is barbaric and that is why alot of fans people like it.

Is Nascar barbaric because most people openly admit watching to look for car wrecks? What about Hockey for fights? Football for the hits on Defense? People always get a reaction when something violent happens.

I just don't like the negative connotation that barbaric gives off. Like it is just a bunch of unskilled, talentless hacks going out there for blood with no concept of sportsmanship, hard work and passion that these guys have.

I am not disagreeing that certain aspects of it are not barbaric but people that know the sport are not just excited when someone get knocked out cold. I love watching great ground fighting, great clinch game, dirty boxing. I am more impressed with someone pulling a sweep from full guard than I am someone flailing away trying to knock someone out. Almost all of the people I know that follow the sport know and appreciate the sport and are not just some crazy rednecks thirsty for blood and knockouts.

Zoltan

pmoney25 wrote:
Zoltan wrote: Just because something requires skill or technique does not mean it is not barbaric. I am sure it would require some skill to kill another man in a sword fight, but it would still be barbaric. I have watched MMA in bars and from my experience the things the fans enjoy most of are guys getting knocked out cold and the blood. It is barbaric and that is why alot of fans people like it.
Is Nascar barbaric because most people openly admit watching to look for car wrecks? What about Hockey for fights? Football for the hits on Defense? People always get a reaction when something violent happens.

I just don't like the negative connotation that barbaric gives off. Like it is just a bunch of unskilled, talentless hacks going out there for blood with no concept of sportsmanship, hard work and passion that these guys have.

I am not disagreeing that certain aspects of it are not barbaric but people that know the sport are not just excited when someone get knocked out cold. I love watching great ground fighting, great clinch game, dirty boxing. I am more impressed with someone pulling a sweep from full guard than I am someone flailing away trying to knock someone out. Almost all of the people I know that follow the sport know and appreciate the sport and are not just some crazy rednecks thirsty for blood and knockouts.

The loudest cheer I have ever heard for an MMA event was UFC 100 when Dan Henderson hit Bisbing when he was out cold. It almost made me sick, but Rogan and the UFC guys replayed it over and over again. It was very obvious that this was what the fans wanted to see.

eersandbeers

Zoltan wrote: The loudest cheer I have ever heard for an MMA event was UFC 100 when Dan Henderson hit Bisbing when he was out cold. It almost made me sick, but Rogan and the UFC guys replayed it over and over again. It was very obvious that this was what the fans wanted to see.

Why wouldn't they keep playing it over and over? It was amazing.

Why would it almost make you sick?

Zoltan

eersandbeers wrote:
Zoltan wrote: The loudest cheer I have ever heard for an MMA event was UFC 100 when Dan Henderson hit Bisbing when he was out cold. It almost made me sick, but Rogan and the UFC guys replayed it over and over again. It was very obvious that this was what the fans wanted to see.

Why wouldn't they keep playing it over and over? It was amazing.

Why would it almost make you sick?

Because he knew he knew he was out, and hit him anyway. If this is what you want to see, you are making my point.

gut

Agree with pretty much everything in this thread.

It's a highly technical sport - actually a sport based on a number of highly technical disciplines. A pure boxer has little chance of even surviving the first round. Back in the old days, wrestlers used to clean-up because all the guys who could only fight on their feet had basically one shot at a knock out or it was on the ground and over for them.

I remember those early Gracie fights and it was just crazy how he beat everyone basically fighting from his back, which is counter to every instinct and teaching in sports like wrestling and boxing.

And that's why MMA is so great because EVERY fighter has someone out there who poses a match-up problem, or at least most of these guys now are capable of ending the fight if you make one mistake.

In a way, I think boxing is more barbaric. I don't care to watch a guy get completely pummeled, and it's sick to see a guy get his arm snapped, but usually they tap or the refs stop it before it gets to that point. To people who don't understand the sport, it usually looks like a guy is taking a way worse beating than he actually is. And unlike boxing, when a guy gets in trouble the fight is usually about to end because you can't really cover up or tie a guy like they can in boxing.

UA5straightin2008

pmoney25

Zoltan wrote:
pmoney25 wrote:
Zoltan wrote: Just because something requires skill or technique does not mean it is not barbaric. I am sure it would require some skill to kill another man in a sword fight, but it would still be barbaric. I have watched MMA in bars and from my experience the things the fans enjoy most of are guys getting knocked out cold and the blood. It is barbaric and that is why alot of fans people like it.
Is Nascar barbaric because most people openly admit watching to look for car wrecks? What about Hockey for fights? Football for the hits on Defense? People always get a reaction when something violent happens.

I just don't like the negative connotation that barbaric gives off. Like it is just a bunch of unskilled, talentless hacks going out there for blood with no concept of sportsmanship, hard work and passion that these guys have.

I am not disagreeing that certain aspects of it are not barbaric but people that know the sport are not just excited when someone get knocked out cold. I love watching great ground fighting, great clinch game, dirty boxing. I am more impressed with someone pulling a sweep from full guard than I am someone flailing away trying to knock someone out. Almost all of the people I know that follow the sport know and appreciate the sport and are not just some crazy rednecks thirsty for blood and knockouts.
The loudest cheer I have ever heard for an MMA event was UFC 100 when Dan Henderson hit Bisbing when he was out cold. It almost made me sick, but Rogan and the UFC guys replayed it over and over again. It was very obvious that this was what the fans wanted to see.

And when Brett Farve got hit like crazy vs. The Saints, those replays were shown over and over again.

And actually getting ko'd is better than taking a beating for 12 rounds getting hit in the head hundreds of times

I don't mind if people do not like MMA but to call it barbaric than go and root on their favorite NFL team the next day is beyond hypocritical to me.

eersandbeers

Zoltan wrote:
eersandbeers wrote:
Zoltan wrote: The loudest cheer I have ever heard for an MMA event was UFC 100 when Dan Henderson hit Bisbing when he was out cold. It almost made me sick, but Rogan and the UFC guys replayed it over and over again. It was very obvious that this was what the fans wanted to see.

Why wouldn't they keep playing it over and over? It was amazing.

Why would it almost make you sick?
Because he knew he knew he was out, and hit him anyway. If this is what you want to see, you are making my point.

He hit him because the ref didn't stop the fight. You keep fighting until it's over.

And Bisping deserved that extra forearm for all the talking before the fight.

2kool4skool

And Bisping taking the extra punch after being KO'd is actually much safer than boxers being knocked down multiple times, but allowed to keep continuing because they get 8 seconds for their brains to stop rattling around.

MMA may be barbaric depending on your definition, but you have to acknowledge that boxing and football are barbaric as well. Yet we encourage 10 year olds to play football.

Zoltan

pmoney25 wrote:
Zoltan wrote:
pmoney25 wrote:
Zoltan wrote: Just because something requires skill or technique does not mean it is not barbaric. I am sure it would require some skill to kill another man in a sword fight, but it would still be barbaric. I have watched MMA in bars and from my experience the things the fans enjoy most of are guys getting knocked out cold and the blood. It is barbaric and that is why alot of fans people like it.
Is Nascar barbaric because most people openly admit watching to look for car wrecks? What about Hockey for fights? Football for the hits on Defense? People always get a reaction when something violent happens.

I just don't like the negative connotation that barbaric gives off. Like it is just a bunch of unskilled, talentless hacks going out there for blood with no concept of sportsmanship, hard work and passion that these guys have.

I am not disagreeing that certain aspects of it are not barbaric but people that know the sport are not just excited when someone get knocked out cold. I love watching great ground fighting, great clinch game, dirty boxing. I am more impressed with someone pulling a sweep from full guard than I am someone flailing away trying to knock someone out. Almost all of the people I know that follow the sport know and appreciate the sport and are not just some crazy rednecks thirsty for blood and knockouts.
The loudest cheer I have ever heard for an MMA event was UFC 100 when Dan Henderson hit Bisbing when he was out cold. It almost made me sick, but Rogan and the UFC guys replayed it over and over again. It was very obvious that this was what the fans wanted to see.
And when Brett Farve got hit like crazy vs. The Saints, those replays were shown over and over again.

And actually getting ko'd is better than taking a beating for 12 rounds getting hit in the head hundreds of times

I don't mind if people do not like MMA but to call it barbaric than go and root on their favorite NFL team the next day is beyond hypocritical to me.

I never said a word about the NFL, not sure where that came from. Your example would have been better if you would have used the Haynesworth stomp the face and said it was awesome if people cheered that. I was saying people cheered a clearly dirty shot. Henderson admitted he did it to "shut him up" after so there was zero doubt where his motivation came from.

eersandbeers

Zoltan wrote: I was saying people cheered a clearly dirty shot. Henderson admitted he did it to "shut him up" after so there was zero doubt where his motivation came from.

It wasn't dirty because the ref didn't stop the fight. Sure Henderson could have stood there and let the ref check Bisping, but the shot was clean and legal. His motivation for the shot is irrelevant.

Zoltan

eersandbeers wrote:
Zoltan wrote:
eersandbeers wrote:
Zoltan wrote: The loudest cheer I have ever heard for an MMA event was UFC 100 when Dan Henderson hit Bisbing when he was out cold. It almost made me sick, but Rogan and the UFC guys replayed it over and over again. It was very obvious that this was what the fans wanted to see.

Why wouldn't they keep playing it over and over? It was amazing.

Why would it almost make you sick?
Because he knew he knew he was out, and hit him anyway. If this is what you want to see, you are making my point.

He hit him because the ref didn't stop the fight. You keep fighting until it's over.

And Bisping deserved that extra forearm for all the talking before the fight.

Exactly my point, you feel it was justified to forearm an unconscious man with brain trauma because he was "talking." Thug logic at best.

gut

Zoltan wrote:Henderson admitted he did it to "shut him up" after so there was zero doubt where his motivation came from.

So Henderson is dirty. That's not a reflection on the sport. Every sport has guys who take cheap shots and are dirty players.

There's no eye gouging, biting or shots to the groin. Wonder if that applies to the bottom of the pile in the NFL.

eersandbeers

Zoltan wrote:

Exactly my point, you feel it was justified to forearm an unconscious man with brain trauma because he was "talking." Thug logic at best.

Did the ref stop the fight? Then the forearm was justified despite your illogical reasons against continuing to fight.

pmoney25

Well I guess to avoid liking things that are barbaric, you must stick with watching Baseball, Golf or Tennis because apparently any sport with contact in it is barbaric.

Zoltan

eersandbeers wrote:
Zoltan wrote:

Exactly my point, you feel it was justified to forearm an unconscious man with brain trauma because he was "talking." Thug logic at best.

Did the ref stop the fight? Then the forearm was justified despite your illogical reasons against continuing to fight.

Everyone who has a clue knows the ref had not even reacted to the knockout shot yet, and Henderson intentionally got it in before the ref could stop it. He knew he was out, admitted it, and said as much.

The loud reaction of the crowd when Henderson openly gloated about the dirty shot told the story. This is what gives MMA, and its fans a bad name.

eersandbeers

Zoltan wrote:
Everyone who has a clue knows the ref had not even reacted to the knockout shot yet, and Henderson intentionally got it in before the ref could stop it. He knew he was out, admitted it, and said as much.

The loud reaction of the crowd when Henderson openly gloated about the dirty shot told the story. This is what gives MMA, and its fans a bad name.

He was fighting until the ref stopped the fight. That is what you are supposed to do.

And MMA and it's fans don't have a bad name that I know of. I mean it is the fastest growing sport in the world and has been in places like Japan for years.

Zoltan

eersandbeers wrote:
Zoltan wrote:
Everyone who has a clue knows the ref had not even reacted to the knockout shot yet, and Henderson intentionally got it in before the ref could stop it. He knew he was out, admitted it, and said as much.

The loud reaction of the crowd when Henderson openly gloated about the dirty shot told the story. This is what gives MMA, and its fans a bad name.
He was fighting until the ref stopped the fight. That is what you are supposed to do.

And MMA and it's fans don't have a bad name that I know of. I mean it is the fastest growing sport in the world and has been in places like Japan for years.

If that is what you are supposed to do, why did he say he doesn't hit guys when they are out except for against Bisbing?

pmoney25

Zoltan wrote:
eersandbeers wrote:
Zoltan wrote:
Everyone who has a clue knows the ref had not even reacted to the knockout shot yet, and Henderson intentionally got it in before the ref could stop it. He knew he was out, admitted it, and said as much.

The loud reaction of the crowd when Henderson openly gloated about the dirty shot told the story. This is what gives MMA, and its fans a bad name.
He was fighting until the ref stopped the fight. That is what you are supposed to do.

And MMA and it's fans don't have a bad name that I know of. I mean it is the fastest growing sport in the world and has been in places like Japan for years.
If that is what you are supposed to do, why did he say he doesn't hit guys when they are out except for against Bisbing?

This argument makes no sense. I can go through pretty much any sport and find cheap shots that were done on purpose. Hell anytime a pitcher hits a batter for retaliation for one of his teammates getting hit is dirty. Pitchers have even admitted after games of hitting someone with a baseball traveling 90-100 MPH.

As for people cheering, Yes some people may cheer louder for a Knockout. Just like some people cheer louder for a Slam Dunk than a Layup or an 80 Yard Touchdown pass vs. a 1 yard td run.

And if you really watch fights you will see that anytime a fight is finished whether it is a KO or Submission it is shown over and over again.

Zoltan

pmoney25 wrote:
Zoltan wrote:
eersandbeers wrote:
Zoltan wrote:
Everyone who has a clue knows the ref had not even reacted to the knockout shot yet, and Henderson intentionally got it in before the ref could stop it. He knew he was out, admitted it, and said as much.

The loud reaction of the crowd when Henderson openly gloated about the dirty shot told the story. This is what gives MMA, and its fans a bad name.
He was fighting until the ref stopped the fight. That is what you are supposed to do.

And MMA and it's fans don't have a bad name that I know of. I mean it is the fastest growing sport in the world and has been in places like Japan for years.
If that is what you are supposed to do, why did he say he doesn't hit guys when they are out except for against Bisbing?
This argument makes no sense. I can go through pretty much any sport and find cheap shots that were done on purpose. Hell anytime a pitcher hits a batter for retaliation for one of his teammates getting hit is dirty. Pitchers have even admitted after games of hitting someone with a baseball traveling 90-100 MPH.

As for people cheering, Yes some people may cheer louder for a Knockout. Just like some people cheer louder for a Slam Dunk than a Layup or an 80 Yard Touchdown pass vs. a 1 yard td run.

And if you really watch fights you will see that anytime a fight is finished whether it is a KO or Submission it is shown over and over again.

Last point on this.

1.) I never said anything about cheering the knockout, I said they cheered the cheap shot and cheered again when he admitted it was a cheap shot.

2.) The fact they showed it over and over again is pretty irrelevant. What is not irrelevant is that a large % of MMA fans thrive on the most violent part of it, and not the technique. Hence the large amounts booing when fights stay on the ground too long.

3.) I like MMA but it has a long way to go to become mainstream. An example is that when ESPN showed the highlights of UFC 100 they could not even show the Henderson knockout because it was too violent. They showed some exchanges and then all of the sudden they show Bisbing on the ground and Henderson celebrating. To use others football example this would be like not being able to show the game winning TD.

4.) This topic is about whether MMA is barbaric and it is without a doubt. Guess what, I still watch occasionally. Others want to bring up football and it might be as well, but that is a topic for another day.

Glory Days

Zoltan wrote: 2.) The fact they showed it over and over again is pretty irrelevant. What is not irrelevant is that a large % of MMA fans thrive on the most violent part of it, and not the technique. Hence the large amounts booing when fights stay on the ground too long.

haha that would be like cheering for offensive linemen in football or a great bounce pass in basketball?

hoops23

Bisping got what he deserved for running his mouth about the US of A

Heretic

pmoney25 wrote: Well I guess to avoid liking things that are barbaric, you must stick with watching Baseball, Golf or Tennis because apparently any sport with contact in it is barbaric.

Gotta take baseball out of the equation. There are brawls in that sport from time to time...ooooohhhh...barbaric!

Anyhow...MMA is a physical contact sport. It was over the top in the beginning, but as more regulations have been set, it's as barbaric as boxing, football, hockey, amateur wrestling or any sport where intense physical contact is part of the game.

And as has been said before on this thread, the general public loves barbaric stuff. Hockey fights are popular. Auto racing wrecks are popular. Brutal boxing KOs are popular. A year or three ago, a major network's pregame NFL show had a "you got JACKED up" segment to exhibit some of the day's biggest hits. You plunk a dude in baseball and start a brawl, you made a big-time Sportscenter highlight. It's the nature of things.

Con_Alma

Yes this sport is barbaric.

Yes these fighter's have tremendous skills.

Yes, this is a wildly growing, legitimate sport.

I thought being barbaric was part of the appeal.

Glory Days

Con_Alma wrote: Yes this sport is barbaric.

Yes these fighter's have tremendous skills.

Yes, this is a wildly growing, legitimate sport.

I thought being barbaric was part of the appeal.

we have a winner.

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Is MMA barbaric?