Do You Hate Referees?

• ernest_t_bass

  

  Laley23 wrote: Oh, and I HATE fans who remind me that "fouls are 8 to 3!" I mean, honestly I have NO CLUE what team I am calling fouls on. I wouldnt know what the foul count is unless they pointed it out. As a referee, I dont usually have a clue as to the team that is winning (until I obviously need to, at the end for fouling purposes etc.) But for the most part, I have no clue what team is fouling more. So from that perspective, I could not be biased in my calls, lol.

  Not to mention, they are just numbers. There are so many different styles of play, zone defense vs. man, driving to the bucket vs. outside shots, press defense. NO ONE takes those into account. They just see the numbers.
• wildcats20

  

  ernest_t_bass wrote:

  Laley23 wrote: Oh, and I HATE fans who remind me that "fouls are 8 to 3!" I mean, honestly I have NO CLUE what team I am calling fouls on. I wouldnt know what the foul count is unless they pointed it out. As a referee, I dont usually have a clue as to the team that is winning (until I obviously need to, at the end for fouling purposes etc.) But for the most part, I have no clue what team is fouling more. So from that perspective, I could not be biased in my calls, lol.

  Not to mention, they are just numbers. There are so many different styles of play, zone defense vs. man, driving to the bucket vs. outside shots, press defense. NO ONE takes those into account. They just see the numbers.

  Plus there are teams out there who really don't foul that much and some who hack the crap out of the other team.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Here's another thing... what if officials started yelling at coaches when they made bonehead coaching moves? We don't get to point out their mistakes... sucks.
• wildcats20

  

  Never had an official yell at my bone head move, but one did come up to me during a FT and say "what the hell were you thinking letting that kid bring the ball up?" I about lost it.
• Laley23

  

  wildcats20 wrote:

  ernest_t_bass wrote:
  Not to mention, they are just numbers. There are so many different styles of play, zone defense vs. man, driving to the bucket vs. outside shots, press defense. NO ONE takes those into account. They just see the numbers.

  Plus there are teams out there who really don't foul that much and some who hack the crap out of the other team.

  Exactly. We had a game the other day where I was a "fan". The fouls with 20 seconds left were 10-1. A parent who I know, sons on team, asked if the refs were giving in to the home crowd. I said, "Not really, Team A has been fouling a lot, while we really have only had 2 all half."
  
  I went back and watched the game on BCSN (it was Toledo Christian @ Maumee Valley) and was spot on. The refs did a great job. I only saw about 3 missed calls all game. 1 missed foul and 2 missed travels.
• wildcats20

  

  About lost it as in falling to the floor laughing.
• wildcats20

  

  Laley or anyone...
  
  Can you explain to me the no dunking in warm ups rule?? I mean obviously you can't touch the rim, but why is it in place??
• wes_mantooth

  

  wildcats20 wrote: Laley or anyone...
  
  Can you explain to me the no dunking in warm ups rule?? I mean obviously you can't touch the rim, but why is it in place??

  haha...we were discussing this tonight as Cleveland Benedictine had about 10 guys that were just flying above the rim and laying it in. I think this is just one of those oldtimer tradition rules that needs to be lifted. Honestly, it isn't hurting anyone.
• osu99

  I officiated hoops for 8 years and can tell you there are a lot of douches calling games that are unlikable people.
• wildcats20

  

  wes_mantooth wrote:

  wildcats20 wrote: Laley or anyone...
  
  Can you explain to me the no dunking in warm ups rule?? I mean obviously you can't touch the rim, but why is it in place??

  haha...we were discussing this tonight as Cleveland Benedictine had about 10 guys that were just flying above the rim and laying it in. I think this is just one of those oldtimer tradition rules that needs to be lifted. Honestly, it isn't hurting anyone.

  Just ventured over to the HS forum and saw your post. Which is why I brought it up. I have never understood it, maybe back in the day when there weren't break away rims I could see why you wouldn't want dunking all the time. But this is 2010, I think it needs to be taken off the books; like you said it doesn't hurt anyone. Granted if you can dunk, more than likely you can just get up there and drop the ball in; so why touch the rim?
• Laley23

  

  wildcats20 wrote: Laley or anyone...
  
  Can you explain to me the no dunking in warm ups rule?? I mean obviously you can't touch the rim, but why is it in place??

  Im almost positive it has to do with the combination of injuries and possibly breaking the apparatus.
  
  Obviously in games, you cant regulate what a player wants to attempt, but in warm-ups you can, so they (OHSAA) do. I HAVE seen 2 kids seriously injured trying to dunk when they can (but not easily). This could easily happen in warm-ups if it is allowed.
  
  Someone correct me if Im wrong, but Im pretty sure I remember that being the reason (I did take the class in August though...)
• wildcats20

  

  Laley23 wrote:

  wildcats20 wrote: Laley or anyone...
  
  Can you explain to me the no dunking in warm ups rule?? I mean obviously you can't touch the rim, but why is it in place??

  Im almost positive it has to do with the combination of injuries and possibly breaking the apparatus.
  
  Obviously in games, you cant regulate what a player wants to attempt, but in warm-ups you can, so they (OHSAA) do. I HAVE seen 2 kids seriously injured trying to dunk when they can (but not easily). This could easily happen in warm-ups if it is allowed.
  
  Someone correct me if Im wrong, but Im pretty sure I remember that being the reason (I did take the class in August though...)

  My guess was damage to the backboard and rim, injury really never crossed my mind. I know the last thing I would want to do is embarrass myself trying to dunk when I know I can't for sure.
• wes_mantooth

  

  Laley23 wrote:

  wildcats20 wrote: Laley or anyone...
  
  Can you explain to me the no dunking in warm ups rule?? I mean obviously you can't touch the rim, but why is it in place??

  Im almost positive it has to do with the combination of injuries and possibly breaking the apparatus.
  
  Obviously in games, you cant regulate what a player wants to attempt, but in warm-ups you can, so they (OHSAA) do. I HAVE seen 2 kids seriously injured trying to dunk when they can (but not easily). This could easily happen in warm-ups if it is allowed.
  
  Someone correct me if Im wrong, but Im pretty sure I remember that being the reason (I did take the class in August though...)

  I can understand that, but these kids were doing all the acrobatics, but then just throwing it down with out touching the rim, so I don't see where it is reducing injury problems.
  
  And as for breaking the apparatus, I could see that "back in the day", but not anymore.
• Laley23

  

  wildcats20 wrote:
  
  Just ventured over to the HS forum and saw your post. Which is why I brought it up. I have never understood it, maybe back in the day when there weren't break away rims I could see why you wouldn't want dunking all the time. But this is 2010, I think it needs to be taken off the books; like you said it doesn't hurt anyone. Granted if you can dunk, more than likely you can just get up there and drop the ball in; so why touch the rim?

  The problem with that logic though is this:
  
  You would be SHOCKED at the amount of shit baskets still in use. Now, I dont mean like hundreds, but a lot more than you would think around Ohio, and they need to make the rule across the board, not for certain schools.
  
  ALSO, until the game officially starts, the school would technically be responsible for the players on the court. A referee is responsible for their safety during the games and we have a lot of backing if we were to be sued for a kid getting hurt. But if it were to happen before hand, you could have a lot of lawsuits towards the referees, OHSAA, and the school.
• wildcats20

  

  Laley23 wrote:

  wildcats20 wrote:
  
  Just ventured over to the HS forum and saw your post. Which is why I brought it up. I have never understood it, maybe back in the day when there weren't break away rims I could see why you wouldn't want dunking all the time. But this is 2010, I think it needs to be taken off the books; like you said it doesn't hurt anyone. Granted if you can dunk, more than likely you can just get up there and drop the ball in; so why touch the rim?

  The problem with that logic though is this:
  
  You would be SHOCKED at the amount of shit baskets still in use. Now, I dont mean like hundreds, but a lot more than you would think around Ohio, and they need to make the rule across the board, not for certain schools.
  
  ALSO, until the game officially starts, the school would technically be responsible for the players on the court. A referee is responsible for their safety during the games and we have a lot of backing if we were to be sued for a kid getting hurt. But if it were to happen before hand, you could have a lot of lawsuits towards the referees, OHSAA, and the school.

  That is true about the shit baskets. I think there needs to be some sort of regulation upgrade or something. And another thing about the baskets I don't understand is the fact that there are a ton of schools with the backboards that hang down below the rim. Backboards are not that expensive, get new ones.
• Laley23

  

  wes_mantooth wrote:
  
  I can understand that, but these kids were doing all the acrobatics, but then just throwing it down with out touching the rim, so I don't see where it is reducing injury problems.
  
  And as for breaking the apparatus, I could see that "back in the day", but not anymore.

  Yeah, Im not saying I really like it a a rule, but I do understand it.
  
  Players like you are explaining are really not doing anything to prevent the injuries....but get to a small D-5 school or the like where a kid is going to try something on his last home game or something.... I know it isnt very likely, but these rules are really only present because it happened before at some point. It is just easier to keep them in place because of what I said earlier. OHSAA has to make the rules for all divisions and all schools in Ohio, and at some point, some idiot would get hurt...
• Laley23

  

  wildcats20 wrote:
  
  That is true about the shit baskets. I think there needs to be some sort of regulation upgrade or something. And another thing about the baskets I don't understand is the fact that there are a ton of schools with the backboards that hang down below the rim. Backboards are not that expensive, get new ones.

  I did a game the other day with the rounded backboards, and it was metal (not glass). Square was painted on, it was not a break-away. Now, it was a middle school gym, but that really is ridiculous.
• wildcats20

  

  Laley23 wrote:

  wildcats20 wrote:
  
  That is true about the shit baskets. I think there needs to be some sort of regulation upgrade or something. And another thing about the baskets I don't understand is the fact that there are a ton of schools with the backboards that hang down below the rim. Backboards are not that expensive, get new ones.

  I did a game the other day with the rounded backboards, and it was metal (not glass). Square was painted on, it was not a break-away. Now, it was a middle school gym, but that really is ridiculous.

  That is terrible. I thought the Newark middle schools were bad. Where you have to stand inbound to inbound the ball. And there is an extra line about 3-4 feet on each side of half court that once you get into the front court serves as the back court violation line. Such a joke.
• wes_mantooth

  

  ^^^Yeah, we had to deal with that in varsity ball a few times. I think they called it a restriction line. Also, we played at one gym where you could not shoot corner threes because the 3pt line met with the out of bounds line.
• wildcats20

  

  The one thing about that I don't like is it is clearly an advantage for the home team. They practice on it everyday and then the visiting comes in once a year and has to adjust to it.
• NNN

  

  ernest_t_bass wrote: Here's another thing... what if officials started yelling at coaches when they made bonehead coaching moves? We don't get to point out their mistakes... sucks.

  Sure they do. Here's umpire Tom Haller going back at Earl Weaver.
  
  (not safe for work or young children's ears)
• majorspark

  

  wes_mantooth wrote: ^^^Yeah, we had to deal with that in varsity ball a few times. I think they called it a restriction line. Also, we played at one gym where you could not shoot corner threes because the 3pt line met with the out of bounds line.

  I don't know how far back you go, but do you remember playing on the stage at Jewett-Scio?
• wes_mantooth

  

  Yep and the stage at Newcomerstown in junior high. The restriction line was at Strasburg and Connotton Valley had the 3pt line that met with the out of bounds line. The IVC was good for some interesting places to play...lol
• tuskytuffguy

  My opinion is, if you're a basketball ref, just STFU. The officiating, and the supposed "glamour" of dunks has killed the game entirely. May as well rename it Barnball.
  
  Got tired of seing lovetaps called foul, and thrown across the floor no-calls.
• Swamp Fox

  Having had some experience in officiating games, I rarely, if ever, criticize game officials. Their job is very tough and they get an amazing number of calls, including many "bang, bang" calls, correct. I would guess that they get a whole lot more calls correct than the many experts who help them make those calls from bleachers, dug outs, and other areas close to the athletic court or field. Officiating is part of the game and since the players and managers are human (for the most part), and make mistakes from time to time, I think it only fair that we give some slack to the guys and gals who are paid to call the action. Fans, afterall do not have a neutral opinion going in. They want every close call and they want their heroes to win. Game officials ideally have no ax to grind or special team to favor, and only want to insure that the teams involved get fair, consistent officiating from start to finish.