Junior Seau Shot and Killed
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Mooney44Cards
Typically when I've reached the point in a debate where people can no longer argue any points without ignoring the topic completely and solely insulting the other person, it generally means that the other people have no clue what they're talking about.
I'll be content in knowing I didn't have to stoop to the level of using phrases like "That's retarded" and "Go fuck yourself" to try to argue a point. Pat yourselves on the back guys! You're adults!
edit: As for my condescending attitude, the answer is "yes, I do consider myself better than people who defend an organization that deliberately ignored the health issues of its players and former players in the name of being cheap and deflecting blame" -
DeyDurkie5
I listed 3 things the NFL is doing to improve players safety. You listed 1, and it was retarded. Thanks for playing mooney and remember next time you go bike riding don't forget your leather helmet in case you crash!Mooney44Cards;1161758 wrote:Typically when I've reached the point in a debate where people can no longer argue any points without ignoring the topic completely and solely insulting the other person, it generally means that the other people have no clue what they're talking about.
I'll be content in knowing I didn't have to stoop to the level of using phrases like "That's retarded" and "Go fuck yourself" to try to argue a point. Pat yourselves on the back guys! You're adults! -
Mooney44Cards
Hey cool you keep saying leather helmet, something that I never mentioned. Good reading comprehension skills! Strawman arguments seem to be your specialty!DeyDurkie5;1161762 wrote:I listed 3 things the NFL is doing to improve players safety. You listed 1, and it was retarded. Thanks for playing mooney and remember next time you go bike riding don't forget your leather helmet in case you crash!
You never once even acknowledged the fact that the NFL ignored this for so long and still continues to ignore the health problems of its former players. They won't even acknowledge that football caused the CTE in their former players. And you're defending them! Way to go you! -
Mooney44Cards
(Insert insults using foul language followed by insulting an argument that was never made by Mooney44Cards)
(Insert snide comment that refers to something Mooney44Cards said, in an effort to make it sound stupid without presenting any facts to the contrary) -
DeyDurkie5
They have started to improve player safety rules, and are researching former player's brains. And they are ignoring them how? You make no sense.Mooney44Cards;1161767 wrote:Hey cool you keep saying leather helmet, something that I never mentioned. Good reading comprehension skills! Strawman arguments seem to be your specialty!
You never once even acknowledged the fact that the NFL ignored this for so long and still continues to ignore the health problems of its former players. They won't even acknowledge that football caused the CTE in their former players. And you're defending them! Way to go you!
Also, I'm defending their improvements on the safety of players. Something you can't seem to comprehend. They knowingly go into the NFL, and know the risks associated with playing. It seems to be their choice. The fact that the NFL has changed rules to help safety is showing they do care and do acknowledge some parts about the game are not safe. You can continue to spin this anyway you want, but you are just flat out wrong. Also, you seem to be one of those guys that sues any chance he gets. Way to go you! -
DeyDurkie5
I presented facts. 3 of them. You presented 1, and then gave your opinion. The 1 fact you gave, was not even a fact at all. It was literally one of the dumbest things I've read on this site. So it's basically Durkie-3 Mooney-0Mooney44Cards;1161771 wrote:(Insert insults using foul language followed by insulting an argument that was never made by Mooney44Cards)
(Insert snide comment that refers to something Mooney44Cards said, in an effort to make it sound stupid without presenting any facts to the contrary) -
Mooney44Cards
In an article in Time magazine in January 2011, Jeffrey Kluger pointed out that the committee in charge of the safety of football helmets is funded by the football helmet manufacturers themselves, and is therefore a conflict of interest. He also quoted Dr. Robert Cantu, neuroscientist at Boston University (who has today requested the brain of Junior Seau) as saying that the current padding is not enough to absorb the shock involved in NFL level hits.
I also gave you an article involving Chris Henry where a doctor says the NFL ignored him for at least 7 years. And you're still defending the NFL. If the players "know what they're getting into" then what does the NFL have to hide? Why would they have ignored medical FACTS for so long?
Also, small steps (not enough IMO, but steps nonetheless) do nothing for former players. You claim they are doing something for former players. Source? -
Mooney44Cards
According to studies at Virginia Tech University (who rates the safety of football helmets on a scale of 1-5 stars), many football players as of last football season were using the Riddell VSR4 which only received 1 star out of 5 on the safety rating. Where was the NFL for this? If they care so much for players' safety, why didn't they conduct these studies on the helmets themselves? How could they claim to take seriously player safety while completely ignoring the safety of the most important piece of equipment their players wear?
edit: Also, deydurkie, you were just starting to have a civil discussion with me about this until the other trolls came along and encouraged you to act like a moron. It's a shame because I was actually enjoying our discussion for awhile there. I'll stay above that sort of name-calling type stuff though because I'm just a condescending sort of person. -
lhslep134
Well then Mooney, let's debate.
You've done a lot of calling out without actually offering your own ideas. Have it it, what are you brilliant ideas besides a helmet with pads on the outside? -
SportsAndLady
1-play the gamelhslep134;1161791 wrote:what are you brilliant ideas
2-take tylenol
/mooney'd -
Mooney44Cards
Lacking the answers to a serious question does not preclude you from discussing it. Welcome to planet earth. I don't know how to solve world hunger or cure cancer, but I can try and tell other people that its an important issue that we should care about. I want you guys to care a bit more, not to boycott the NFL and blame them for all the world's problems. They've done some bad things that have made the problem worse when they should have been trying to eliminate the problem. This does not mean they purposely hurt their players. It doesn't mean they are completely to blame for all of the former players' problems. It means they are a piece of the puzzle and should be culpable for their role in the problem.lhslep134;1161791 wrote:Well then Mooney, let's debate.
You've done a lot of calling out without actually offering your own ideas. Have it it, what are you brilliant ideas besides a helmet with pads on the outside?
edit: Call me crazy, but I don't think ^^^that^^^ is all that unreasonable. -
lhslep134
Mooney44Cards;1161795 wrote:Lacking the answers to a serious question does not preclude you from discussing it. Welcome to planet earth. I don't know how to solve world hunger or cure cancer, but I can try and tell other people that its an important issue that we should care about. I want you guys to care a bit more, not to boycott the NFL and blame them for all the world's problems. They've done some bad things that have made the problem worse when they should have been trying to eliminate the problem. This does not mean they purposely hurt their players. It doesn't mean they are completely to blame for all of the former players' problems. It means they are a piece of the puzzle and should be culpable for their role in the problem.
edit: Call me crazy, but I don't think ^^^that^^^ is all that unreasonable.
None of what you just said has any relevance to the fact you were/are acting like someone with a superiority complex and were calling people out for discussing the issue.
I don't understand what you're trying to prove with your latest post. It has nothing to do with ANYTHING -
Mooney44Cards
Someone asked me for my ideas to improve players' safety. And I posted that. Was it not a proper answer to the question?lhslep134;1161797 wrote:None of what you just said has any relevance to the fact you were/are acting like someone with a superiority complex and were calling people out for discussing the issue.
I don't understand what you're trying to prove with your latest post. It has nothing to do with ANYTHING -
Mooney44Cards
Here's what I have to say:
A VERY good football player died yesterday at his own hands. He was quite possibly the greatest defensive player in the NFL in the 1990's. In addition to that, he seemed to be overall a pretty great guy and as far as we know didn't suffer from any demons such as alcoholism, drug abuse, etc.
This is just the latest event in a disturbing trend of former NFL players dying before their time. Whether or not anyone knew what they were getting into beforehand, I think we can all agree that not only is trying to prevent future NFL veteran deaths/suicides good for all involved, but trying to improve the quality of life of those players is also important.
The recent rule changes, while finally a good step, do nothing for the possible health/mental health issues of former players. Junior Seau's death may have nothing/everything to do with his days in the NFL. But to simply say "he knew the risks" is not a good answer. Whenever anyone dies, what should be asked is "could this have been prevented?". If the answer is no, so be it. If the answer is yes, then the NFL is clearly not doing enough for their veterans. All it would take to appease people like me who take this seriously is a statement from that NFL that says they are committing X amount of dollars or X amount of manpower to the problem of CTE/veteran's mental/physical health.
To me, I don't think this is unreasonable. Apparently some of you do, and that's fine. But don't make fun of me for caring too much about people. -
lhslep134
Read the article I posted, and you'll see why the answer is probably no.Mooney44Cards;1161810 wrote: If the answer is no, so be it. -
Mooney44Cards
Scientist not knowing the mechanics of helmet technology != no answer to the problem.lhslep134;1161846 wrote:Read the article I posted, and you'll see why the answer is probably no.
If we stopped researching every question we couldn't find the answer to, we'd get nowhere. Does me quoting an economist that says he doesn't know how to lower the current unemployment rate = a definitive consensus that the unemployment rate cannot be lowered? -
lhslep134
So your answer to the problem is an improved helmet, and that's not the solution because that doesn't realistically solve the problem. Again, read the article. Stop just assuming you know what it containsMooney44Cards;1161856 wrote:Scientist not knowing the mechanics of helmet technology != no answer to the problem. -
se-alum
lhslep134;1161747 wrote:So I post an article that quotes a medical doctor who admits she's not sure how to alleviate the problem, and yet Mooney comes on here and thinks that he has the answers?
LOL at that. I'm fairly certain I speak for the majority of the people on this thread when I say: Mooney, go F*UCK yourself and your condescending attitude. Helmets with pads on the outside? That's as dumb of an idea as using leather helmets and still DOESN'T ALLEVIATE THE PROBLEM.
Only the articles Mooney reads are legit, everything else is wrong...lol. He's just in too deep to get out of his terrible argument now. -
WebFire
Perhaps a slice of the money pie? You have to be pretty herp derp to not know the inherit risk in playing football.Mooney44Cards;1161692 wrote:Then why do former players keep saying that they didn't know the risks? Lemme guess, they're lying, right? -
Mooney44Cards
Easy for you to say, I haven't seen you give a legitimate argument yet. Just logic fallacies. But its fun to make fun of and "lol" at other people who don't use the same terrible debate tactics that you do. Perhaps I should also use strawman arguments like you. Or not base a single thing I say off of facts. Would that convince you? Because then I'd be arguing like you!se-alum;1161880 wrote:Only the articles Mooney reads are legit, everything else is wrong...lol. He's just in too deep to get out of his terrible argument now.
I honestly think people are just disagreeing to troll at this point because there is no way any of you could be this stubborn about something after I've presented plenty of evidence of the problem and restated my position as "needs more research". I honestly don't know how any human being could disagree with that. But then, you guys aren't even really arguing anything at this point, just saying shit like "lol hey guys remember when Mooney said the thing about the helmets! Hilarious! I like the NFL cuz its tough and manly and I drink beer! Do you drink beer too?! Let me tell you the beer I drink so you know I drink beer and I'm a man too just like you! Manly football hits and beer! Did I mention the beer I'm drinking and also how stupid Mooney's point was? No I will not break down what was stupid about Mooney's point, I'll just say it's stupid and put a bunch of lol so he knows I'm laughing at him because I think he's stupid. Beer me."
I have seen 1 (one) article posted by someone who disagrees with me. The article quoted an NFL employee who in turn quoted a doctor who said that they didn't know how to solve the problem.
ONE article with ONE doctor (allegedly) saying "I don't know the answer" and yet I still have to repeat over and over to you that just because there is no answer does not mean we don't discuss it or we forget about the problem. That doesn't mean "all my articles are legit and everyone else's are wrong" because articles aren't "right" or "wrong" and anyone who says that is ignorant. Pulling out one sentence from one article (out of context) and using it as proof that the problem can't be solved is probably the worst attempt at legitimate debate I've ever seen. I've posted multiple articles about veterans who state that they didn't know the risks. I've also quoted multiple articles and studies that showed that the NFL at best had absolutely no clue that the equipment their players were using was unsafe (in fact the worst on the market) and at worst was ignoring the advice of a legitimate researcher who was warning them of the danger and prevalence of CTE.
You guys can continue to ignore all that and point to one sentence by one NFL employee, or you can concede that maybe the NFL holds some responsibility to their former players who they made billions off of while completely ignoring the advice of doctors and researchers.
You keep making fun of my solution to the problem. I'm just a regular guy with no medical training. I go off of what I read (not what my opinion is, which is what everyone here is doing). You can think my suggestion is stupid, that's fine. But current players aren't the one's at high risk (for dying) right now. So while the NFL does all it can to (at the very least appear to) protect current players, former players will continue to suffer while being completely ignored by the NFL. If someone could please cite a source that states that the NFL is going to help their veterans with CTE I will stand corrected. But as I see it, the NFL fought hard in court against the family of Mike Webster which shows that they may have no interest in admitting the problem.
But again, by all means, keep defending them. -
Mooney44Cards
Do you have ANYTHING to base this on other than your own opinion? No? Nice opinion based on......nothing.WebFire;1161943 wrote:Perhaps a slice of the money pie? You have to be pretty herp derp to not know the inherit risk in playing football. -
se-alum
Haha...I posted a link to a web page that outlined everything the NFL was doing safety wise, and you just discounted it as propaganda, but the links you posted are the gospel!?! C'mon. Why would anyone pay attention to your articles, when you discount the articles and information provided by everyone else?Mooney44Cards;1162030 wrote:Easy for you to say, I haven't seen you give a legitimate argument yet. Just logic fallacies. But its fun to make fun of and "lol" at other people who don't use the same terrible debate tactics that you do. Perhaps I should also use strawman arguments like you. Or not base a single thing I say off of facts. Would that convince you? Because then I'd be arguing like you!
I honestly think people are just disagreeing to troll at this point because there is no way any of you could be this stubborn about something after I've presented plenty of evidence of the problem and restated my position as "needs more research". I honestly don't know how any human being could disagree with that. But then, you guys aren't even really arguing anything at this point, just saying shit like "lol hey guys remember when Mooney said the thing about the helmets! Hilarious! I like the NFL cuz its tough and manly and I drink beer! Do you drink beer too?! Let me tell you the beer I drink so you know I drink beer and I'm a man too just like you! Manly football hits and beer! Did I mention the beer I'm drinking and also how stupid Mooney's point was? No I will not break down what was stupid about Mooney's point, I'll just say it's stupid and put a bunch of lol so he knows I'm laughing at him because I think he's stupid. Beer me."
I have seen 1 (one) article posted by someone who disagrees with me. The article quoted an NFL employee who in turn quoted a doctor who said that they didn't know how to solve the problem.
ONE article with ONE doctor (allegedly) saying "I don't know the answer" and yet I still have to repeat over and over to you that just because there is no answer does not mean we don't discuss it or we forget about the problem. That doesn't mean "all my articles are legit and everyone else's are wrong" because articles aren't "right" or "wrong" and anyone who says that is ignorant. Pulling out one sentence from one article (out of context) and using it as proof that the problem can't be solved is probably the worst attempt at legitimate debate I've ever seen. I've posted multiple articles about veterans who state that they didn't know the risks. I've also quoted multiple articles and studies that showed that the NFL at best had absolutely no clue that the equipment their players were using was unsafe (in fact the worst on the market) and at worst was ignoring the advice of a legitimate researcher who was warning them of the danger and prevalence of CTE.
You guys can continue to ignore all that and point to one sentence by one NFL employee, or you can concede that maybe the NFL holds some responsibility to their former players who they made billions off of while completely ignoring the advice of doctors and researchers.
You keep making fun of my solution to the problem. I'm just a regular guy with no medical training. I go off of what I read (not what my opinion is, which is what everyone here is doing). You can think my suggestion is stupid, that's fine. But current players aren't the one's at high risk (for dying) right now. So while the NFL does all it can to (at the very least appear to) protect current players, former players will continue to suffer while being completely ignored by the NFL. If someone could please cite a source that states that the NFL is going to help their veterans with CTE I will stand corrected. But as I see it, the NFL fought hard in court against the family of Mike Webster which shows that they may have no interest in admitting the problem.
But again, by all means, keep defending them. -
WebFire
I used common sense. How many players have actually said they didn't know football was dangerous? How does that compare to all the ones that did know?Mooney44Cards;1162031 wrote:Do you have ANYTHING to base this on other than your own opinion? No? Nice opinion based on......nothing. -
1_beast
WOW tl;drMooney44Cards;1162030 wrote:Easy for you to say, I haven't seen you give a legitimate argument yet. Just logic fallacies. But its fun to make fun of and "lol" at other people who don't use the same terrible debate tactics that you do. Perhaps I should also use strawman arguments like you. Or not base a single thing I say off of facts. Would that convince you? Because then I'd be arguing like you!
I honestly think people are just disagreeing to troll at this point because there is no way any of you could be this stubborn about something after I've presented plenty of evidence of the problem and restated my position as "needs more research". I honestly don't know how any human being could disagree with that. But then, you guys aren't even really arguing anything at this point, just saying **** like "lol hey guys remember when Mooney said the thing about the helmets! Hilarious! I like the NFL cuz its tough and manly and I drink beer! Do you drink beer too?! Let me tell you the beer I drink so you know I drink beer and I'm a man too just like you! Manly football hits and beer! Did I mention the beer I'm drinking and also how stupid Mooney's point was? No I will not break down what was stupid about Mooney's point, I'll just say it's stupid and put a bunch of lol so he knows I'm laughing at him because I think he's stupid. Beer me."
I have seen 1 (one) article posted by someone who disagrees with me. The article quoted an NFL employee who in turn quoted a doctor who said that they didn't know how to solve the problem.
ONE article with ONE doctor (allegedly) saying "I don't know the answer" and yet I still have to repeat over and over to you that just because there is no answer does not mean we don't discuss it or we forget about the problem. That doesn't mean "all my articles are legit and everyone else's are wrong" because articles aren't "right" or "wrong" and anyone who says that is ignorant. Pulling out one sentence from one article (out of context) and using it as proof that the problem can't be solved is probably the worst attempt at legitimate debate I've ever seen. I've posted multiple articles about veterans who state that they didn't know the risks. I've also quoted multiple articles and studies that showed that the NFL at best had absolutely no clue that the equipment their players were using was unsafe (in fact the worst on the market) and at worst was ignoring the advice of a legitimate researcher who was warning them of the danger and prevalence of CTE.
You guys can continue to ignore all that and point to one sentence by one NFL employee, or you can concede that maybe the NFL holds some responsibility to their former players who they made billions off of while completely ignoring the advice of doctors and researchers.
You keep making fun of my solution to the problem. I'm just a regular guy with no medical training. I go off of what I read (not what my opinion is, which is what everyone here is doing). You can think my suggestion is stupid, that's fine. But current players aren't the one's at high risk (for dying) right now. So while the NFL does all it can to (at the very least appear to) protect current players, former players will continue to suffer while being completely ignored by the NFL. If someone could please cite a source that states that the NFL is going to help their veterans with CTE I will stand corrected. But as I see it, the NFL fought hard in court against the family of Mike Webster which shows that they may have no interest in admitting the problem.
But again, by all means, keep defending them. -
dlazzHe killed himself because he was a pussy.