Would you all agreed that Baseball is the easiest sport!
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Benny The Jet
Kind of off topic, but can you imagine the guy who was trying to explain golf when it first started? "ok, take this stick, hit this tiny white ball into that 4 inch hole 500 yards away. And by the way, you're only average if you get it in there on 4 or 5 swings" Probably seemed like the most pointless thing ever -
Manhattan Buckeye
I was an SAE at Vanderbilt, good Lord half of the frat were soccer nerds, I say that affectionately considering I'm still friends with them. I don't care how great they are at ball handling, striking or being soccer-geniuses.OSH;1003507 wrote:People can run without legs...so, running can't be that hard.
So, out of the guys, you mentioned 1 all-state player. That's not too many "soccer nerds" that you played against. Now, I am not asking you to list all the players there...but that really didn't prove a point. You can be awful and competitive in just about any sport. Look through some of the awful NBA/college players...yet they are in the league/compete for MANY years. I was an awful hitter in baseball, but I could field...so I still was competitive. Your story, while I still don't agree with it being an "easy sport...you can be awful and competitive," was successful for you, is not commonplace. It's rare. Just like any other sport being plugged into that same story/situation.
1) If you are reasonably athletic and in good condition,
2) Understand spacing, and
3) Have the foot-eye coordination to kick a ball a long way
You can play defense in soccer without a lick of training.
How many other sports are that approachable? Hence, easy. -
hasbeen
Dr.Pizza;1002158 wrote:I dont get why every one makes such a big deal out of how hard baseball is. Someone Baseball fans always say hitting a 80mph(miles per hours) fastball is the hardest thing in sports.
I've have been to the batting cages before and I've have been able to hit 80mph(miles per hours). Also, they always say that feilding a ground ball requires a whole lot of agilities and talent but I dont' think it would that hard!
Hitting an eighty mile per hour fastball is not hard. Hell, hitting a ninety mile per hour isn't that hard. As long as it's straight and you know it's coming. The difficulty in baseball is a good pitcher has a ninety mile per hour, likely a two seam that moves. A change up that is eighty miles an hour and moves. A 75 mph curve ball that drops off the table. And finally, the 88 mph slider that looks so much like a 90 mph fastball you swing then it moves away at the last second. Leaving you swinging at air. -
jmog
You are right, I didn't want to get that technical, but a hard slider or splitter are harder than a slow curve, but if it is an 80 MPH curve that's really a slider.OneBuckeye;1003230 wrote:I think a 95MPH fastball is harder to hit. A 80MPH curveball is only hard to hit after seeing a 90+ Fastball. If you throw both pitches 100 times in a row, a baseball player will hit the curveball better I would think. I think a 90+ Splitter or hard slider would also be harder to hit than a 80 MPH curve.
Also, I would disagree on one thing, 95 mph fastball is easier than a good breaking pitch every day of the week. -
like_that
LMAO, you are kidding right? As Jmog said, you pretty much just showed that you know nothing about Wrestling. I got the biggest laugh at your quotations on off-season, and stating you can do nothing and not dramatically affect your ability to be successful in the sport. That has to be one of the biggest jokes I have read on the OC, and there has been some idiotic posts here.said_aouita;1003211 wrote:I've heard this many times before too. Been dozens of 4x state champs in wrestling. Not one 4x state champ ever in XC for the state of Ohio.
You can win a state title in wrestling (even a national title) just on pure talent while being "lazy" in practice. You could never do this in distance running or XC. Wrestling has an "off-season" where you can do nothing and not dramatically effect your ability to be successful in the sport, unlike distance running.
Too many intangibles in distance running....
If you actually wrestled, then shame on. -
jmog
The fact that the pool is larger in CC does NOT make the act of cross country any harder. Whether you are running against 2 people or running against 10,000 people, the act of running is the same.ccrunner609;1003485 wrote:The guy you are disagreeing with is from Graham and is witness to the best program in the country. He is also a former national CC runner. You also just made his point. In wrestling you get pair in a smaller pool of talent that you match up with. In running you have to compete against 150+ runners at one time.
Yes there is technique in CC, yes it takes amazing endurance, but no sport on the planet takes the amount of technique, endurance and strength combination that wrestling does.
Trust me, I have ran 10k at a good pace many times and been decently tired afterwards, but never ready to fall over from exhaustion.
Wrestle a full 6 minute wrestling match against top competition and you are ready to fall over.
Here's the difference. Any good wrestler is in good enough shape that he could go out and run a 10k and place at a typical HS CC meet (I did NOT say win). A CC guy comes onto a wrestling mat and loses to one of the worst wrestlers on the team.
CC is about being in shape, period, that's it. While its a different kind of endurance (muscle endurance vs cardio) wrestling takes being in better overall shape than CC.
I am also NOT talking about marathon runners, that is a totally different breed than just 3.1 miles. -
OSH
That's not a sport that is "approachable" or "easy." You played 1 (uno; one) position! You explained 1 (uno; one) position! Anyone can explain many positions, in ANY sport, as "easy" or "approachable" when played on a rec level. I also wouldn't look at Vanderbilt as the definition of "soccer nerds." They don't even have a men's team. If there were as many "soccer nerds" as you say were in frats, wouldn't there be some sort of good soccer tradition there? Heck, Ohio Wesleyan University just won a National Championship in men's soccer and they don't even get 250 fans at their games! Going to a "smart" school like those don't mean they actually support, know, or can play the sport.Manhattan Buckeye;1003519 wrote:I was an SAE at Vanderbilt, good Lord half of the frat were soccer nerds, I say that affectionately considering I'm still friends with them. I don't care how great they are at ball handling, striking or being soccer-geniuses.
1) If you are reasonably athletic and in good condition,
2) Understand spacing, and
3) Have the foot-eye coordination to kick a ball a long way
You can play defense in soccer without a lick of training.
How many other sports are that approachable? Hence, easy.
That's like saying everyone that is in a frat at Duke able to win basketball games. Is every frat boy at LSU able to win football games? There would be "nays" to both of those questions. So that probably means that frat boys at Vandy can't win soccer games either. -
like_that
LOL, so because somebody is from Graham they automatically know about the sport of wrestling? This is about as dumb as non saying that Steelers fans are more knowledgeable in football because the steelers have been playing better football the past decade. I guess I shouldn't be shocked, you are the same idiot who thinks he knows about Wisconsin football, because you saw them live at the OSU/Wiscy game. You are also the dumbass who made all those idiotic posts pre-game to the OSU/Duke game, and then couldn't man up and eat your crow. I have seen a few cross country state champs run live before, I guess that makes me credible when it comes to discussing CC. Based on my credibility, I can assure you that CC is not tougher than wrestling.ccrunner609;1003485 wrote:The guy you are disagreeing with is from Graham and is witness to the best program in the country. He is also a former national CC runner. You also just made his point. In wrestling you get pair in a smaller pool of talent that you match up with. In running you have to compete against 150+ runners at one time.
BTW, I have wrestled with and encountered numerous wrestlers who also ran cross country. They all have told that wrestling is by far the toughest sport they have ever gone through. Nice fail.
Edit: One of those CC runners was my coach was was an NCAA D1 cross country runner. -
Manhattan Buckeyee
What other sport is that approachable even in one position? Football and basketball require skills. Certainly a person with superior physical qualities can excel in those sports, but it takps a very superior condition.OSH;1003546 wrote:That's not a sport that is "approachable" or "easy." You played 1 (uno; one) position! You explained 1 (uno; one) position! Anyone can explain many positions, in ANY sport, as "easy" or "approachable" when played on a rec level. I also wouldn't look at Vanderbilt as the definition of "soccer nerds." They don't even have a men's team. If there were as many "soccer nerds" as you say were in frats, wouldn't there be some sort of good soccer tradition there? Heck, Ohio Wesleyan University just won a National Championship in men's soccer and they don't even get 250 fans at their games! Going to a "smart" school like those don't mean they actually support, know, or can play the sport.
That's like saying everyone that is in a frat at Duke able to win basketball games. Is every frat boy at LSU able to win football games? There would be "nays" to both of those questions. So that probably means that frat boys at Vandy can't win soccer games either.
I'm telling you I can and did hold my own in soccer without knowing a damn thing about the sport. And probably can still do it. Hence, why soccer is easy. -
like_that
lolfailccrunner609;1003565 wrote:When did I mention anything about CC? You guys are jumping my shit and I never said anything
ccrunner609;1003485 wrote:The guy you are disagreeing with is from Graham and is witness to the best program in the country. He is also a former national CC runner. You also just made his point. In wrestling you get pair in a smaller pool of talent that you match up with. In running you have to compete against 150+ runners at one time. -
OSH
EVERY other sport has its own "approachable" position. I am sure being a holder for a place kicker in football is really challenging. What about the kickoffs? What about fielding a ground ball? What about catching a flyball? What about shooting free throws? What about rebounding the basketball -- look at Chris Dudley who was a professional basketball player and THE most unathletic person in the world! Take a gander at Oliver Miller's picture with the Toronto Raptors.Manhattan Buckeye;1003562 wrote:e
What other sport is that approachable even in one position? Football and basketball require skills. Certainly a person with superior physical qualities can excel in those sports, but it takps a very superior condition.
I'm telling you I can and did hold my own in soccer without knowing a damn thing about the sport. And probably can still do it. Hence, why soccer is easy.
You held your own in rec with some other people who were rec players. Good for you. I won an "A" League intramural basketball championship at my Alma mater...we had former college basketball players playing in it. So that must mean that basketball is easy. Softball looks fairly "approachable" since it's gained in popularity amongst the middle-aged male population in beer leagues.
Who says you had to mention it? We have just gave examples of why cross country and/or track are easier than several other sports.ccrunner609;1003565 wrote:When did I mention anything about CC? You guys are jumping my **** and I never said anything -
like_that
This pretty much sums up CC.
[video=youtube;De7rbB2bteE][/video] -
Manhattan Buckeye"EVERY other sport has its own "approachable" position."
Not one that can keep the other team from scoring, which is the point of the sport. I didn't hold the position for a kicker, or field a ball in the outfield (which BTW, in baseball you have to be talented enough many throws at any position). I just had to be faster and able to knock the ball away from a "great" player, which I'm sure he is/was.
The worst part was dealing with the crying how we don't appreciate the sport, which is being solidified now with your posts. -
like_that
Oprah Winfrey ran a marathon. Enough said.ccrunner609;1003583 wrote:No I didnt mentiona nything that wasnt already said......I was pointing out anothers post. Like I said, I havent brought any type of running into the discussion.
If I were, I would of said that running a marathon at a competative level or even at the level to say qualify for Boston......that would be much harder then competeing in wrstling. -
friendfromlowry
I couldn't care less about wrestling vs XC but for the sake of the argument you're comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare running at a good pace vs wrestling against top competition. If you try to run at the state cross country meet, you're likely going to fall over half-way through the race unless you can run 5:00 miles back to back to back. Just like if I wrestle against top competition for six minutes then I'll fall over.jmog;1003543 wrote:Trust me, I have ran 10k at a good pace many times and been decently tired afterwards, but never ready to fall over from exhaustion.
Wrestle a full 6 minute wrestling match against top competition and you are ready to fall over.
I do agree that it's easy for athletes (particularly the soccer players and wrestlers) to cross over and be good at XC than it is for runners to cross over and be good at other sports.
I think I'd also ask you to expand on your definition of "place" at a typical HS CC meet -- since with typical HS CC meets, placing doesn't exist. When you get into league, districts, regionals, and state then they will recognize the first 12 or 15 guys but those are typically the guys that are training all year round (also running track) not splitting time between practicing other sports. -
jmog
Than HS wrestling, yes.ccrunner609;1003583 wrote:No I didnt mentiona nything that wasnt already said......I was pointing out anothers post. Like I said, I havent brought any type of running into the discussion.
If I were, I would of said that running a marathon at a competative level or even at the level to say qualify for Boston......that would be much harder then competeing in wrstling.
Than being competitive in the Olympics Freestyle? No. -
Manhattan Buckeye
Agree with all of that, I appreciate the work and effort that wrestlers put in, but running a 10K at the college level or the 5K at the HS level at a competitive pace is an amazing accomplishment, people strive for years to run a sub 15 minute 5K or a sub 33 minute 10K.friendfromlowry;1003605 wrote:I couldn't care less about wrestling vs XC but for the sake of the argument you're comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare running at a good pace vs wrestling against top competition. If you try to run at the state cross country meet, you're likely going to fall over half-way through the race unless you can run 5:00 miles back to back to back. Just like if I wrestle against top competition for six minutes then I'll fall over.
I do agree that it's easy for athletes (particularly the soccer players and wrestlers) to cross over and be good at XC than it is for runners to cross over and be good at other sports.
I think I'd also ask you to expand on your definition of "place" at a typical HS CC meet -- since with typical HS CC meets, placing doesn't exist. When you get into league, districts, regionals, and state then they will recognize the first 12 or 15 guys but those are typically the guys that are training all year round (also running track) not splitting time between practicing other sports. -
jmog
A top wrestler has to be in such good shape that I'm telling you they could go out and place at most league's final run. The best XC runner in the state would get mopped against a crappy HS wrestler on the mat. That is the difference.friendfromlowry;1003605 wrote:I couldn't care less about wrestling vs XC but for the sake of the argument you're comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare running at a good pace vs wrestling against top competition. If you try to run at the state cross country meet, you're likely going to fall over half-way through the race unless you can run 5:00 miles back to back to back. Just like if I wrestle against top competition for six minutes then I'll fall over.
I do agree that it's easy for athletes (particularly the soccer players and wrestlers) to cross over and be good at XC than it is for runners to cross over and be good at other sports.
I think I'd also ask you to expand on your definition of "place" at a typical HS CC meet -- since with typical HS CC meets, placing doesn't exist. When you get into league, districts, regionals, and state then they will recognize the first 12 or 15 guys but those are typically the guys that are training all year round (also running track) not splitting time between practicing other sports.
XC is being in great shape, period. That's really it, it is only about training and training hard. Training hard and being in great shape is only 1 single aspect of wrestling. -
friendfromlowry
I've read through most of your explanation and without witnessing it first-hand I'd wager that your example is definitely the exception. I think the biggest flaw is comparing actual competition vs rec league. I've played intramural bball and NONE of them ever used a shotclock, so in essence my teammates and I could just pass the ball around kill clock every possession and hopefully find the bottom of the net every once in a while.Manhattan Buckeye;1002648 wrote:At that level soccer is the easiest....this is from empirical evidence having gone to college with guys that were "soccer studs" in HS.....hilarious how angry they'd get in intramurals when guys that never handled a soccer ball in their life would force them into a 0-0 tie. All you have to do is be faster than them and kick the ball away constantly.
Just out of curiosity, when your team "booted" the ball out of bounds, did someone have to go run and fetch it, thus killing clock time? Because in a more competitive scenario (ex. high school) there's ball boys waiting to hand the ball off to the other team and next thing you know, they're moving the ball down the field.
Hell if soccer was that big of a loophole than the World Cup would be just a bunch of tie games. These 3rd world countries out of Africa would compete with Brazil, France, Italy, etc. by just kicking the ball out of bounds while the better players whined of how unfair it was. -
jmog
Here's the difference.Manhattan Buckeye;1003618 wrote:Agree with all of that, I appreciate the work and effort that wrestlers put in, but running a 10K at the college level or the 5K at the HS level at a competitive pace is an amazing accomplishment, people strive for years to run a sub 15 minute 5K or a sub 33 minute 10K.
Take a top tier wrestler and send him to a XC practice, he does just fine, probably does not beat the best guy on the team, but he runs with with the lower tier guys right off the bat.
Take the best XC guy in the state and put him in the wrestling room and he doesn't make it past the first 20 minutes (I say 20 because the first 15 is probably stretching and running only).
I've done both, I've trained for 10ks and ran them pretty dang well, and I've wrestled/grappled (did Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for years), I played HS football, etc and NOTHING compares to wrestling, they are not even close.
I am a "big" guy for someone to run a distance run, even when I trained for the 10k I only got down to 175 lbs at 5'8". I have a muscular frame that eats up O2 fast in long distances and I was still able to get under a 40 min 10k.
It is just a matter of getting in shape, and training hard. It requires some technique but not a lot by any means, requires hardly any strength, matter of fact muscular strength anywhere but legs actually hurts you.
Wrestling requires so much more than that that you can only truly understand it if you have ever actually wrestled. -
OSH
Who's crying about a sport or in this discussion?Manhattan Buckeye;1003586 wrote:"EVERY other sport has its own "approachable" position."
Not one that can keep the other team from scoring, which is the point of the sport. I didn't hold the position for a kicker, or field a ball in the outfield (which BTW, in baseball you have to be talented enough many throws at any position). I just had to be faster and able to knock the ball away from a "great" player, which I'm sure he is/was.
The worst part was dealing with the crying how we don't appreciate the sport, which is being solidified now with your posts.
Me saying that you can't base the "ease" of a sport because someone played a singular position in a rec situation is not justifiable in proving that said sport is actually "easy" is now considered crying? If that's the case, then discussions with you aren't actually worth getting into because your side is the only one that is legit and the others is "crying."
And the objective of soccer isn't really to hold the team from scoring...it's to score more goals than the other team. So, your "soccer nerd" frat boys still failed in teaching the game. Maybe you should give it a try again, this time try being around actual "soccer nerds" instead of some Vandy, SEC, frat boys. -
Manhattan Buckeye
It didn't matter who retrieved the ball (but to answer your question, yes it was usually the opposite team that tried to score that retrieved it). We had a goalkeeper that was a legit 6'5 and was a big time basketball player (walked on to the team our Senior year). And a few guys more athletic than myself that could just keep kicking the ball away.friendfromlowry;1003628 wrote:I've read through most of your explanation and without witnessing it first-hand I'd wager that your example is definitely the exception. I think the biggest flaw is comparing actual competition vs rec league. I've played intramural bball and NONE of them ever used a shotclock, so in essence my teammates and I could just pass the ball around kill clock every possession and hopefully find the bottom of the net every once in a while.
Just out of curiosity, when your team "booted" the ball out of bounds, did someone have to go run and fetch it, thus killing clock time? Because in a more competitive scenario (ex. high school) there's ball boys waiting to hand the ball off to the other team and next thing you know, they're moving the ball down the field.
Hell if soccer was that big of a loophole than the World Cup would be just a bunch of tie games. These 3rd world countries out of Africa would compete with Brazil, France, Italy, etc. by just kicking the ball out of bounds while the better players whined of how unfair it was.
That didn't happen in basketball. We could honestly beat the soccer players 100-0, especially with 6'5 guy playing. -
jmog
lol...I've done both...and trust me, you are wrong. I would rather run 3.1 miles in 16 minutes than wrestle full go for 6.ccrunner609;1003633 wrote: 6 minutes of wrestling with many breaks over 16 minutes of all out.........yeah sure -
friendfromlowry
Look unless you've got some type of statistics to back this up then we can just agree to disagree. I ran in high school, and one of my teammates was a prominent wrestler. He went to state all four years and usually finished in the top five. He was considerably good considering that he only trained (with us) for four months of the year (he didn't run track - forget why) But he wasn't even the best guy on our team, let alone able to place at league. And I'm sure you've got stories or examples of wrestlers who did very well at XC, I'm not discounting that, but it's all relative.jmog;1003624 wrote:A top wrestler has to be in such good shape that I'm telling you they could go out and place at most league's final run. -
OSH
There are exceptions to every sport.ccrunner609;1003633 wrote:That statement is idiotic. I coach many HS wrestlers in CC that go on and place at state in wrestling and cant make the varsity cc team in the same year. In a large DI cc team like Mason or centerville, the average wrestler would be their 50th best CC runner if they walked out and ran a race at the drop of hat. You have no clue what placing at a league meet would be like. the 10th best time in our county meet was a 17:10. That aint happening with anyone but a trained CC runner.
6 minutes of wrestling with many breaks over 16 minutes of all out.........yeah sure
My college women's soccer team had a player who ran a half marathon in the middle of our soccer season. She ran 10 miles the day before the half marathon and ran it in 1:31. That was her "training." The 10 miles was also the first time she ran that far. So then the half became her farthest run. She also qualified for the Boston and will be running it in April...after almost making All-American status in college by running in her first-ever marathon.
She had very little training and became a top runner. She was also an all-conference soccer player for her 4-year college soccer career. But, that doesn't mean anything since it's an easy sport and running a marathon is so much harder.