Argument I just got in re: Food Stamps

• Manhattan Buckeye

  Scarlet_Buckeye;874054 wrote:That's because there's a difference between walking into a subsidiary of Honeywell and walking into, say, McDonalds or Applebees.

  No there isn't, neither will hire you. There is absolutely no way McDonalds would hire me unless I flat out lie on my resume. Or Applebee's for that matter. Surely the concept of overqualified hasn't missed you.
• queencitybuckeye

  Manhattan Buckeye;874153 wrote:No there isn't, neither will hire you. There is absolutely no way McDonalds would hire me unless I flat out lie on my resume. Or Applebee's for that matter. Surely the concept of overqualified hasn't missed you.

  I think these kinds of places are missing out by not hiring the overqualified. They're businesses used to high turnover anyway, so why not take advantage of filling positions with super-achievers?
• Scarlet_Buckeye

  

  Manhattan Buckeye;874153 wrote:No there isn't, neither will hire you. There is absolutely no way McDonalds would hire me unless I flat out lie on my resume. Or Applebee's for that matter. Surely the concept of overqualified hasn't missed you.

  queencitybuckeye;874164 wrote:I think these kinds of places are missing out by not hiring the overqualified. They're businesses used to high turnover anyway, so why not take advantage of filling positions with super-achievers?

  Exactly. McDonalds is used to high turnover. Why wouldn't they want an educated person working for them as opposed to some incompetent person who probably will show up late to work at least 4 days of the week and really has no understanding of what a work ethic is? If as a college graduate you can't walk into a McDonalds and land a job, then there's something wrong with you.
• rydawg5

  theres something wrong with you.
• queencitybuckeye

  Scarlet_Buckeye;874199 wrote:Exactly. McDonalds is used to high turnover. Why wouldn't they want an educated person working for them as opposed to some incompetent person who probably will show up late to work at least 4 days of the week and really has no understanding of what a work ethic is? If as a college graduate you can't walk into a McDonalds and land a job, then there's something wrong with you.

  It's clear that you have no knowledge of the restaurant business. While I think the chains are making a mistake in the current economy, a college graduate has nearly no chance of landing a line job in a chain restaurant.
• justincredible

  

  sej;873591 wrote: But apparently I'm still an awful person.

  I can verify that this is 100% true.
• Heretic

  

  Ah, founding fathers/religion quotes:
  
  Thomas Jefferson:
  "Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." - "Notes on Virginia"
  
  "Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. - letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787
  
  "... I am not afraid of priests. They have tried upon me all their various batteries of pious whining, hypocritical canting, lying and slandering. I have contemplated their order from the Magi of the East to the Saints of the West and I have found no difference of character, but of more or less caution, in proportion to their information or ignorance on whom their interested duperies were to be played off. Their sway in New England is indeed formidable. No mind beyond mediocrity dares there to develop itself." - letter to Horatio Spofford, 1816
  
  "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
  -letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT "The Complete Jefferson" by Saul K. Padover, pp 518-519
  
  James Madison
  "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." -letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774
  
  "The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries." -1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches
  
  John Adams
  "I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved-- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
  -letter to Thomas Jefferson
  
  "As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" -letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816
  
  "The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning. And ever since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality, is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes."
  - letter to John Taylor
  
  Benjamin Franklin
  "I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity." - Works, Vol. VII, p. 75
  
  "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." -in Poor Richard's Almanac
  
  
  IN SHORT, while many founding fathers may have had christian beliefs to some degree or another, they wanted to keep the christinsanity out of the government because they felt all that led to large amounts of conflict, henceforth the separation of church and state. They might have given credit to god, but not to organized religion.
• BoatShoes

  Scarlet_Buckeye;874054 wrote:That's because there's a difference between walking into a subsidiary of Honeywell and walking into, say, McDonalds or Applebees.

  I am sorry my friend, but I don't know your situation but I do know my own and there are people who graduated law school with me who are scrambling for work. They can't even get a paralegal job because firms don't want to higher an attorney because "they could be gone any day." There are people with MBA's and J.D's and CFA's relying on our welfare state. Sure, the guy who dropped out of high school and who has been using food stamps for years and begs money in Public Square could walk into McDonald's and get hired...maybe...if he has internet access, can pass a drug test, is more attractive and personable than the 10 other people applying, etc.....but that guy wasn't doing that when economic times were good. Even if we accept that those types of people are "scum"....it's the people who have been self-reliant and would love to be again that are making us a "food stamp nation" right now.
  
  I hear the sentiment "stop being a parasite and go get a job, herm der" which people often say with regard to beneficiaries of social programs but such propositions might hold more weight if we were at full employment and experiencing even growing at the historical average. It makes no sense when there are literally millions of people would love to work right now and cannot get hired for whatever reason. All I know is I will be in a world of hurt if I lose my job and there's no reason to believe it won't happen to me just like it's happened to so many other people. Manhattan Buckeye isn't that far off when he says getting hired is a miracle these days....
• Skyhook79

  

  Heretic;874252 wrote:
  
  
  IN SHORT, while many founding fathers may have had christian beliefs to some degree or another, they wanted to keep the christinsanity out of the government because they felt all that led to large amounts of conflict, henceforth the separation of church and state. They might have given credit to god, but not to organized religion.

  
  Who said anything about Separation of Church and State and organized religion being promoted by Gov't? The statement made was the founding Fathers had a "live and let live attitude" which could not be farther from the truth. They based many of their thoughts and forming of the Constitution on those beliefs of God and true Christianity.
• Scarlet_Buckeye

  

  queencitybuckeye;874240 wrote:It's clear that you have no knowledge of the restaurant business.

  Worked it in for almost 4 years and have several friends who currently work in it, thank you very much.
• Scarlet_Buckeye

  

  BoatShoes;874283 wrote:I am sorry my friend, but I don't know your situation but I do know my own and there are people who graduated law school with me who are scrambling for work. They can't even get a paralegal job because firms don't want to higher an attorney because "they could be gone any day." There are people with MBA's and J.D's and CFA's relying on our welfare state. Sure, the guy who dropped out of high school and who has been using food stamps for years and begs money in Public Square could walk into McDonald's and get hired...maybe...if he has internet access, can pass a drug test, is more attractive and personable than the 10 other people applying, etc.....but that guy wasn't doing that when economic times were good. Even if we accept that those types of people are "scum"....it's the people who have been self-reliant and would love to be again that are making us a "food stamp nation" right now.

  Not quite sure what you are arguing here. Int he above paragraph, all you talked about was how your buddies who have law degrees can't get a job. Uhmm.... I've said on numerous threads that Law is the worst profession to be trying to get into right now. I'm not debating that it's easy to get a job in law right now because I know it's not. I'm saying it's easy to walk right in and get a job at McDonalds or the like (if the person is a college graduate that is).
• queencitybuckeye

  Scarlet_Buckeye;874392 wrote:Worked it in for almost 4 years and have several friends who currently work in it, thank you very much.

  Then you should know that my statement is correct. Chains do not, as a matter of course, hire the overqualified.
• Heretic

  

  Skyhook79;874380 wrote:Who said anything about Separation of Church and State and organized religion being promoted by Gov't? The statement made was the founding Fathers had a "live and let live attitude" which could not be farther from the truth. They based many of their thoughts and forming of the Constitution on those beliefs of God and true Christianity.

  But wouldn't the concept that they didn't want religion to be directly intertwined with the government advocate more of a "live and let live attitude"?
  
  Using basic tenets of a religion is completely different than actually advocating or promoting one in particular. That would be like saying that murder being illegal is thanks to the ten commandments, as opposed to simple common sense dictating that murder being legal would create pure anarchy.
• Scarlet_Buckeye

  

  queencitybuckeye;874402 wrote:Then you should know that my statement is correct. Chains do not, as a matter of course, hire the overqualified.

  I beg to differ.
• Scarlet_Buckeye

  

  Heretic;874406 wrote:But wouldn't the concept that they didn't want religion to be directly intertwined with the government advocate more of a "live and let live attitude"?

  You can't reason w/ religious zealots. They never listen.
• queencitybuckeye

  Scarlet_Buckeye;874425 wrote:I beg to differ.

  Well, having been in the business for nearly 20 years, I'll weigh your opinion accordingly. As to one of the specific companies you used as an example, I was three steps on the organization chart from the top of that company, so I may just know of what I speak there.
• FatHobbit

  

  Scarlet_Buckeye;874426 wrote:You can't reason w/ religious zealots. They never listen.

  It's not just religious zealots.
• O-Trap

  

  Sky, many of the statements you referenced make no distinction between Christian and Deist. Since I'm currently at work, I'll explain further what I mean when I get home (and am not on my phone). Quote bombs are a nightmare on a phone.
• BoatShoes

  Scarlet_Buckeye;874396 wrote:I'm saying it's easy to walk right in and get a job at McDonalds or the like (if the person is a college graduate that is).

  Well the point was to demonstrate that this proposition here that you're making is completely and utterly false as it pertains to persons with professional degrees and surely most individuals with bachelor's degrees. If this is your worldview it is devoid of empirical justification and without foundation. It is highly unlikely that a McDonald's GM is going to hire a licensed attorney or even a B.S.B.A. to be a fry cook. Their only hope would be to lie on their resume; and upon reflection we might wonder about the curtilage of virtue upon which our society rests when talented problem solvers are devising ways to scheme their way to way into flipping burgers or making lattes.
• Skyhook79

  

  Heretic;874406 wrote:But wouldn't the concept that they didn't want religion to be directly intertwined with the government advocate more of a "live and let live attitude"?
  

  No, it would not. Just because they did not want Gov't advocating any 1 religion does not mean they didn't see that the Christian lifestyle is a lifestyle worthy of being followed and that they used Christian influences in constructing the Constitution. The Gov't and Supreme Court of today is taking on more of the attitude of "live and let live" and you can see the direction this country is headed in because of it.
• rydawg5

  I never meant "Christian" in the context of anything except for the mindset of being a nation who values humanity and social help. I don't know why people can't see context of discussion and have to totally change it and nit pick into silly things about what if's on Ten Commandments? What the heck..
• Scarlet_Buckeye

  

  BoatShoes;874496 wrote:Well the point was to demonstrate that this proposition here that you're making is completely and utterly false as it pertains to persons with professional degrees and surely most individuals with bachelor's degrees. If this is your worldview it is devoid of empirical justification and without foundation. It is highly unlikely that a McDonald's GM is going to hire a licensed attorney or even a B.S.B.A. to be a fry cook. Their only hope would be to lie on their resume; and upon reflection we might wonder about the curtilage of virtue upon which our society rests when talented problem solvers are devising ways to scheme their way to way into flipping burgers or making lattes.

  You are out of your mind if you think a manager would not want to hire an educated person over an uneducated person. Absolutely out of your mind.
• gport_tennis

  Scarlet_Buckeye;874716 wrote:You are out of your mind if you think a manager would not want to hire an educated person over an uneducated person. Absolutely out of your mind.

  
  do you believe that a person can be overqualified for a job
• Manhattan Buckeye

  Scarlet_Buckeye;874716 wrote:You are out of your mind if you think a manager would not want to hire an educated person over an uneducated person. Absolutely out of your mind.

  Educated, fine, but managers at chains just need competent people. They aren't going to hire someone that they think is a lot smarter than they are to perform menial tasks. There is no added value, bigger risk that they'll leave for a better opportunity and again the manager likes to be the smartest person on the staff.
  
  We're all not lying to you, even when the economy wasn't terrible it wasn't easy to waltz in to a chain to get a job. After my junior year of college (mid 90's) ODOT canceled their summer program in my county so I had to scramble for a job. I applied to Red Lobster and Outback in Huntington, WV for a lousy diswashing job. Red Lobster didn't even respond, the manager at Outback was very cool. He met with me, shook my hand and told me he's never received a resume from the college I attended and asked what my plans were. I told him I was studying the LSAT and planned on applying for law school. He congratulated me and asked if it was really worth it for me to work 30 hours a week for $5.00 an hour washing dishes rather than to continue studying.
  
  And that was the mid 90's, in 2011 with nearly 30 million Americans un/underemployed I can't imagine that it is any easier today.
• LJ

  

  Scarlet_Buckeye;874716 wrote:You are out of your mind if you think a manager would not want to hire an educated person over an uneducated person. Absolutely out of your mind.

  You are very out of touch with reality