An open letter to conservatives...

• BCSbunk

  http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/a/m/americandad/2010/03/an-open-letter-to-conservative.php?ref=recdc
  
  
  This letter is backed up at every point and is very well written. With Frum making great points this letter tells the truth of what is going on with many conservatives today.
• NNN

  

  I glanced it over quickly, then noticed this gem.
  

  "You really need to dissassociate with those among you who:
  * assert that people making a quarter-million dollars a year can barely make ends meet or that $1 million "isn't a lot of money";"

  Who said that? Mike McMahon, a DEMOCRAT representative from New York.
  
  That's a pretty glaring factual error right there.
  
  Or how about this one?
  

  prove your machismo by claiming your going to "crash a party" to which you're officially invited;

  Good proper use of "you're".
  

  # advocate a traitors act like seccession, violent revolution , military coup or civil war (just so we're clear: sedition is a bad thing).

  For one thing, secession isn't "a traitor's act". For another, it's misspelled.
  
  Why the hell should I actually go through and pick this apart piece by piece? In the one section I looked at, I noticed those immediately. Is the rest of this so gloriously written as well?
• lhslep134

  

  NNN wrote: I glanced it over quickly, then noticed this gem.
  

  "You really need to dissassociate with those among you who:
  * assert that people making a quarter-million dollars a year can barely make ends meet or that $1 million "isn't a lot of money";"

  Who said that? Mike McMahon, a DEMOCRAT representative from New York.
  
  That's a pretty glaring factual error right there.
  
  Or how about this one?
  

  prove your machismo by claiming your going to "crash a party" to which you're officially invited;

  Good proper use of "you're".
  

  # advocate a traitors act like seccession, violent revolution , military coup or civil war (just so we're clear: sedition is a bad thing).

  For one thing, secession isn't "a traitor's act". For another, it's misspelled.
  
  Why the hell should I actually go through and pick this apart piece by piece? In the one section I looked at, I noticed those immediately. Is the rest of this so gloriously written as well?

  
  
  BOOM roasted.
• believer

  

  NNN wrote:Why the hell should I actually go through and pick this apart piece by piece? In the one section I looked at, I noticed those immediately. Is the rest of this so gloriously written as well?

  I thought the same thing. A moron attempting to label others morons.
  
  Huge fail.
• BCSbunk

  NNN wrote: I glanced it over quickly, then noticed this gem.
  

  "You really need to dissassociate with those among you who:
  * assert that people making a quarter-million dollars a year can barely make ends meet or that $1 million "isn't a lot of money";"

  Who said that? Mike McMahon, a DEMOCRAT representative from New York.
  
  That's a pretty glaring factual error right there.
  
  Or how about this one?
  

  prove your machismo by claiming your going to "crash a party" to which you're officially invited;

  Good proper use of "you're".
  

  # advocate a traitors act like seccession, violent revolution , military coup or civil war (just so we're clear: sedition is a bad thing).

  For one thing, secession isn't "a traitor's act". For another, it's misspelled.
  
  Why the hell should I actually go through and pick this apart piece by piece? In the one section I looked at, I noticed those immediately. Is the rest of this so gloriously written as well?

  Well first off you are wrong and according to your logic (really lack thereof) I should ignore your post as it is not worth going through.
  

  ]"You really need to dissassociate with those among you who:
  * assert that people making a quarter-million dollars a year can barely make ends meet or that $1 million "isn't a lot of money";"

  Who said that? Mike McMahon, a DEMOCRAT representative from New York.[/quote]
  
  Look at the quotes Mike McMahon did NOT say them.
  

  a slew of conservative voices arguing that the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy should be extended because $250,000 in yearly income is really not that much money. For instance, Fox News’ Martha MacCallum said “people who make $250,000 — in some parts of this country, they may not consider themselves rich,” while CNN’s Karin Chetry added that “some would argue that in some parts of the country that [$250,000] is middle class.” Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele even said “trust me, after taxes, a million dollars is not a lot of money.”

  Martha MacCallum and Michael Steele made the quotes alluded too.
  
  You are disingenious and attempting through poor logic and rheteric to divert and make the article seem to not tell the truth, but it does and it pinpoints attempts like yours as part of the problem with this country.
  
  So because of spelling errors and your own gaffe or the all so famous (the democrat did it too) which does not lead away from the truth, then the article is not true?
  
  So if spelling errors is the best you can do, I suggest you give up the cause.
• QuakerOats

  Typical of the left and even some RINO's, they confuse income with wealth. You can make $250k in a year and not be wealthy at all. What the left doesn't tell the masses is that most people who own small businesses (remember, the ones who hire the majority of workers in this country) are Sub-S corp's and the income from the business flows directly through to the owners on their 1040 and the owner pays tax on the business income (not the business, which avoids another injustice in the tax code -- double taxation, but that is another story). It is easy for someone at $250k to just net maybe $80-100k after all the MASSIVE taxes they pay, just for the pleasure of employing people and keeping all the government regulatory agencies and their bloated staffs employed making more than the private sector. Most of these owners are not getting 'wealthy' at all.
  
  Unfortunately most people are clueless as to the tax burdens of small business owners; they just run with the class warfare rhetoric. That then leads to the election of radical leftists as we have now which then leads to absolute disastrous legislation as was just passed. All of which leads to less incentive to run a business, employ people, pay taxes and thus the downward spiral will continue. If I owned a business I would look to offshore it as soon as possible, before it gets completely confiscated by these radicals.
  
  Change we can believe in ..................
• fish82

  

  BCSbunk wrote: http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/a/m/americandad/2010/03/an-open-letter-to-conservative.php?ref=recdc
  
  
  This letter is backed up at every point and is very well written. With Frum making great points this letter tells the truth of what is going on with many conservatives today.

  Let's not get carried away, shall we? It's a mediocre piece, that's "backed up" in many places with dubious sources and very loosely interpreted "facts."
  
  Does it make a couple of legit points? Yeah, it does. That being said, I could bang out an identically damning piece about the Democrat party in the space of an afternoon, given the time.
• lhslep134

  

  An open letter to BCSbunk,
  
  
  Nice try, but HUGE fail. I applaud the effort to try and call us out when it's the liberals who are ruining this country, but next time find something a little more legitimate.
• BCSbunk

  lhslep134 wrote: An open letter to BCSbunk,
  
  
  Nice try, but HUGE fail. I applaud the effort to try and call us out when it's the liberals who are ruining this country, but next time find something a little more legitimate.

  What do you know more hyperbole. I think the letter talks about that.
  
  Ruining the country?
  
  LOL.
• NNN

  

  BCSbunk wrote: Look at the quotes Mike McMahon did NOT say them.
  
  Martha MacCallum and Michael Steele made the quotes alluded too.
  
  You are disingenious and attempting through poor logic and rheteric to divert and make the article seem to not tell the truth, but it does and it pinpoints attempts like yours as part of the problem with this country.
  
  So because of spelling errors and your own gaffe or the all so famous (the democrat did it too) which does not lead away from the truth, then the article is not true?
  
  So if spelling errors is the best you can do, I suggest you give up the cause.

  Read the provided link.
  
  Martha McCallum: “People who make $250,000 — in some parts of this country, they may not consider themselves rich."
  
  Karin Chetry: “Some would argue that in some parts of the country that [$250,000] is middle class.”
  
  Mike McMahon: “A working couple making $250,000 is barely making ends meet.”
  
  What did the text for the link refer to?
  
  "You really need to disassociate with those among you who assert that people making a quarter-million dollars a year can barely make ends meet "
  
  Who said that people making a quarter of a million dollars a year can barely make ends meet? That's right, Mike McMahon.
  
  Martha McCallum is a reporter. Karin Chetry is a reporter. Mike McMahon is a Representative from New York, an elected official, and a Democrat.
  
  Now, if you want to argue that someone who says that people making $250K a year are barely making ends meet ISN'T someone who says that people making $250K a year are barely making ends meet, then I don't know what to tell you.
  
  Do you want me to dig up some stuff Bill Clinton said and then say that the Republicans need to distance themselves from people amongst them with his thought process?
• BCSbunk

  NNN wrote:

  BCSbunk wrote: Look at the quotes Mike McMahon did NOT say them.
  
  Martha MacCallum and Michael Steele made the quotes alluded too.
  
  You are disingenious and attempting through poor logic and rheteric to divert and make the article seem to not tell the truth, but it does and it pinpoints attempts like yours as part of the problem with this country.
  
  So because of spelling errors and your own gaffe or the all so famous (the democrat did it too) which does not lead away from the truth, then the article is not true?
  
  So if spelling errors is the best you can do, I suggest you give up the cause.

  Read the provided link.
  
  Martha McCallum: “People who make $250,000 — in some parts of this country, they may not consider themselves rich."
  
  Karin Chetry: “Some would argue that in some parts of the country that [$250,000] is middle class.”
  
  Mike McMahon: “A working couple making $250,000 is barely making ends meet.”
  
  What did the text for the link refer to?
  
  "You really need to disassociate with those among you who assert that people making a quarter-million dollars a year can barely make ends meet "
  
  Who said that people making a quarter of a million dollars a year can barely make ends meet? That's right, Mike McMahon.
  
  Martha McCallum is a reporter. Karin Chetry is a reporter. Mike McMahon is a Representative from New York, an elected official, and a Democrat.
  
  Now, if you want to argue that someone who says that people making $250K a year are barely making ends meet ISN'T someone who says that people making $250K a year are barely making ends meet, then I don't know what to tell you.
  
  Do you want me to dig up some stuff Bill Clinton said and then say that the Republicans need to distance themselves from people amongst them with his thought process?

  Look your word salad does not make you sound reasonable.
  
  Here is what YOU said.
  

  Quote:
  "You really need to dissassociate with those among you who:
  * assert that people making a quarter-million dollars a year can barely make ends meet or that $1 million "isn't a lot of money";"
  
  Who said that? Mike McMahon, a DEMOCRAT representative from New York.
  
  That's a pretty glaring factual error right there.

  Now I showed exactly who said those quotes which is in the article that the link leads too.
  
  Now here is the direct link.
  
  http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/02/08/mcmahon-ends/
  
  Now the articles states that Fox news anchor and Michael Steele made quotes which are referred to in this article.
  
  Yes a democrat made a similar quote but not the exact quotes the original article alludes too.
  
  Which is here
  
  recently been a slew of conservative voices arguing that the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy should be extended because $250,000 in yearly income is really not that much money. For instance, Fox News’ Martha MacCallum said “people who make $250,000 — in some parts of this country, they may not consider themselves rich,” while CNN’s Karin Chetry added that “some would argue that in some parts of the country that [$250,000] is middle class.” Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele even said “trust me, after taxes, a million dollars is not a lot of money.”
  
  I already acknowledged that yes a Democrat made a similar statement but the article is about conservatives..
  
  Yes go ahead and make an entire article that is the same as that one with liberals instead of conservatives.
  
  The hatred is showing which is also alluded to in the article.
  
  Some of the problems are being reflected in this very thread.
• Footwedge

  Just wow at David Frum. Talk about baring his soul. The man has done a 360 on his political allegiances. Good for him. I used to be a proud member of the Republican Party. But just as with Frum, after getting repeatedly slugged in the mouth by my former party, I finally had had enough.
  
  LOL at those that think this article is poorly written. It's extraordinarily well done AND well researched. Each point is hyperlinked and referenced.
  
  What makes this political reversal so stunning, Mr. Frum worked a long, long time with the hawkish, neoconservative web site, the National Review, perceived as one of the most "conservative" sites out there.
  
  Kudos to Mr. Frum, in coming out of the closet and dragging all of the skeletons out with him.
  
  A good confession like this will cleanse the soul.
  
  Great job, David. But don't fear. Others with a mode of pragmatism in analizing the Republican party, have also seen the light on the utter hypocracry of the GOP and told them all to fuck off.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  Yeah, because any conservative who says what liberals want to hear has to be right...right?
  
  Uh huh.
  
  More elitism arrogance from the folks who created elitism arrogance.
• believer

  

  Footwedge wrote:Great job, David. But don't fear. Others with a mode of pragmatism in analizing the Republican party, have also seen the light on the utter hypocracry of the GOP and told them all to fuck off.

  Analizing? Isn't that what BHO-Reid-Pelosi have been doing the past year and a half? The self-righteous fence riders apparently think that's just fine. That, in the final analysis, is equally hypocratical...I mean...hypocritical.
• fish82

  

  Footwedge wrote: Just wow at David Frum. Talk about baring his soul. The man has done a 360 on his political allegiances. Good for him. I used to be a proud member of the Republican Party. But just as with Frum, after getting repeatedly slugged in the mouth by my former party, I finally had had enough.
  
  LOL at those that think this article is poorly written. It's extraordinarily well done AND well researched. Each point is hyperlinked and referenced.
  
  What makes this political reversal so stunning, Mr. Frum worked a long, long time with the hawkish, neoconservative web site, the National Review, perceived as one of the most "conservative" sites out there.
  
  Kudos to Mr. Frum, in coming out of the closet and dragging all of the skeletons out with him.
  
  A good confession like this will cleanse the soul.
  
  Great job, David. But don't fear. Others with a mode of pragmatism in analizing the Republican party, have also seen the light on the utter hypocracry of the GOP and told them all to fuck off.

  FYI, the piece referenced in the thread was not written by David Frum. And given the time, I could easily debunk about half its sources.
  
  Why do you have to get a stiffy every time some "well known" conservative turns tables? You don't like the GOP anymore....we get it already, man! Just between you and me....the "noble martyr" shtick is getting a little stale.
• Footwedge

  fish82 wrote:

  Footwedge wrote: Just wow at David Frum. Talk about baring his soul. The man has done a 360 on his political allegiances. Good for him. I used to be a proud member of the Republican Party. But just as with Frum, after getting repeatedly slugged in the mouth by my former party, I finally had had enough.
  
  LOL at those that think this article is poorly written. It's extraordinarily well done AND well researched. Each point is hyperlinked and referenced.
  
  What makes this political reversal so stunning, Mr. Frum worked a long, long time with the hawkish, neoconservative web site, the National Review, perceived as one of the most "conservative" sites out there.
  
  Kudos to Mr. Frum, in coming out of the closet and dragging all of the skeletons out with him.
  
  A good confession like this will cleanse the soul.
  
  Great job, David. But don't fear. Others with a mode of pragmatism in analizing the Republican party, have also seen the light on the utter hypocracry of the GOP and told them all to fuck off.

  FYI, the piece referenced in the thread was not written by David Frum. And given the time, I could easily debunk about half its sources.
  
  Why do you have to get a stiffy every time some "well known" conservative turns tables? You don't like the GOP anymore....we get it already, man! Just between you and me....the "noble martyr" shtick is getting a little stale.

  Everyone gets good wood for different reasons. Sorry if my erections offend you.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  First, the invitation: Come back to us.
  
  Now the advice. You're going to have to come up with a platform that isn't built on a foundation of cowardice: fear of people with colors, religions, cultures and sex lives that differ from your own; fear of reform in banking, health care, energy; fantasy fears of America being transformed into an Islamic nation, into social/commun/fasc-ism, into a disarmed populace put in internment camps; and more. But you have work to do even before you take on that task.
  
  Your party -- the GOP -- and the conservative end of the American political spectrum have become irresponsible and irrational. Worse, it's tolerating, promoting and celebrating prejudice and hatred. Let me provide some examples -- by no means an exhaustive list -- of where the Right as gotten itself stuck in a swamp of hypocrisy, hyperbole, historical inaccuracy and hatred.
  
  If you're going to regain your stature as a party of rational, responsible people, you'll have to start by draining this swamp:

  
  Such animosity!!! And condesension!!!
  
  Who wrote this, Michael Phleger?!
  
  LMAO!!!!
  
  *Edit
  
  For those who aren't familiar with him...
  
  
• Paladin

  Well written and right on the money. The facts are placed out there for all to see ( with links & references). The irony is in the remarks made here by the freak shows. No matter how truthful , no matter how ugly and no matter how hypocritical they are, they can't hide these facts from the voters. The GOP is a model of hatred , bigotry, lies and propaganda that many see thru despite their "claims".
  
  They can't believe one of their own and can't accept responsibility for who they are.
  
  Which is fine by me. The public has pushed these freaks off the stage.
• majorspark

  

  Wow that article was like searching through a pile of manure to find a few pieces of silver.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  Well written, not really. It was poorly formatted and too long. It should have been broken up into parts, I, II, III.... Then, it should have been tighter, shorter bullet points, with the hyperlinks covering one word, not whole phrases. It was an eyesore to read and gave me a headache.
  
  As to content, it seemed like a laundry list of all the progressive talking points over the past year. I didn't check out the links.
  
  Point: Could have argued it in a simply, more read friendly manner.
• tk421

  

  Paladin wrote: Well written and right on the money. The facts are placed out there for all to see ( with links & references). The irony is in the remarks made here by the freak shows. No matter how truthful , no matter how ugly and no matter how hypocritical they are, they can't hide these facts from the voters. The GOP is a model of hatred , bigotry, lies and propaganda that many see thru despite their "claims".
  
  They can't believe one of their own and can't accept responsibility for who they are.
  
  Which is fine by me. The public has pushed these freaks off the stage.

  Andy by calling the other side names, I'm sure you are showing the Democrats compassion and loving nature for all Americans. What a big piece of shit. Hypocritical at the finest.
• queencitybuckeye

  QuakerOats wrote: Typical of the left and even some RINO's, they confuse income with wealth. You can make $250k in a year and not be wealthy at all.

  To that point, $250k in Manhattan is approximately the same thing as earning just over $100,000 in Charlotte, to pick somewhere random.
  
  Good money? Yes. Rich? Not remotely, don't be ridiculous. This point, like many others, were simply absurd.
• lhslep134

  

  queencitybuckeye wrote:

  QuakerOats wrote: Typical of the left and even some RINO's, they confuse income with wealth. You can make $250k in a year and not be wealthy at all.

  To that point, $250k in Manhattan is approximately the same thing as earning just over $100,000 in Charlotte, to pick somewhere random.
  
  Good money? Yes. Rich? Not remotely, don't be ridiculous. This point, like many others, were simply absurd.

  I'd take 250k a year living in Youngstown though
• queencitybuckeye

  lhslep134 wrote:

  queencitybuckeye wrote:

  QuakerOats wrote: Typical of the left and even some RINO's, they confuse income with wealth. You can make $250k in a year and not be wealthy at all.

  To that point, $250k in Manhattan is approximately the same thing as earning just over $100,000 in Charlotte, to pick somewhere random.
  
  Good money? Yes. Rich? Not remotely, don't be ridiculous. This point, like many others, were simply absurd.

  I'd take 250k a year living in Youngstown though

  Why wouldn't you just buy Steubenville, and have a nice dinner with the change?
• BCSbunk

  CenterBHSFan wrote:

  First, the invitation: Come back to us.
  
  Now the advice. You're going to have to come up with a platform that isn't built on a foundation of cowardice: fear of people with colors, religions, cultures and sex lives that differ from your own; fear of reform in banking, health care, energy; fantasy fears of America being transformed into an Islamic nation, into social/commun/fasc-ism, into a disarmed populace put in internment camps; and more. But you have work to do even before you take on that task.
  
  Your party -- the GOP -- and the conservative end of the American political spectrum have become irresponsible and irrational. Worse, it's tolerating, promoting and celebrating prejudice and hatred. Let me provide some examples -- by no means an exhaustive list -- of where the Right as gotten itself stuck in a swamp of hypocrisy, hyperbole, historical inaccuracy and hatred.
  
  If you're going to regain your stature as a party of rational, responsible people, you'll have to start by draining this swamp:

  
  Such animosity!!! And condesension!!!
  
  Who wrote this, Michael Phleger?!
  
  LMAO!!!!
  
  *Edit
  
  For those who aren't familiar with him...
  
  

  Ad hominem.
  
  If Hitler says 2+2 = 4 it must be wrong because umm it is Hitler saying it.
  
  The man made an argument I have seen no one refute the truths pointed out. Instead they focus on ad hominem (attacking the writer) and pointing out gramatical errors as if somehow that defers from the truth in the article.