Govt secretly collecting data on millions of VZW users

• gut

  Wow. The scariest thing is that, for maybe the first time, I agree with Al Gore! Anyway, throw another log on the fire:thumbup:
  
  http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/us-govt-secretly-collecting-data-millions-verizon-users-013542225.html
  "The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing."
  
  
  
  
• gut

  Hmmmm, clearly a preventive measure so that Holder could one day use the data to identify who leaked this story to the Guardian.
• redstreak one

  

  This is disturbing, but nah, if you don't have anything to hide! lol [EMAIL="$#%^^#@#@$%%"]$#%^^#@#@$%%[/EMAIL], I swear I can see the Constitution being destroyed piece by piece. I cant wait to here what my Rep says about the email I just sent. I wonder who will respond, a pimply faced intern fresh on the job?
• Manhattan Buckeye

  gut;1453224 wrote:Hmmmm, clearly a preventive measure so that Holder could one day use the data to identify who leaked this story to the Guardian.

  I'm not sure what is funnier, that the court order actually has "Top Secret" on its header or that in the court order it forbids any type of leaking. At first I thought this was a "The Onion" article.
• Belly35

  

  I'm fucked .... IRS, EPA, VZW
• HitsRus

  

  To be fair, this was started under Bush in the wake of 9/11, but has exploded under the Obama administration. Why am I not surprised?
• pmoney25

  

  But...... But.... Uhhh Terrorists... Gotta find em
• Manhattan Buckeye

  HitsRus;1453242 wrote:To be fair, this was started under Bush in the wake of 9/11, but has exploded under the Obama administration. Why am I not surprised?

  Is this correct? I know that the Patriot Act allowed government following of flight information (and back in the day, the left wing went NUTS over this), I wasn't aware of actual telephony information gathering.
• justincredible

  

  Guys. The government is only doing this to protect us. Why are you so paranoid?
• justincredible

  

  http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/report-nsa-verizon-call-records-92315.html?hp=t1
  

  The Obama administration is defending itself against charges it secretly obtained records for Verizon phone calls made in the United States, arguing that the policy is a vital tool in monitoring terrorists and has the approval of “all three branches of government,” according to a senior administration official.

  
  
  This makes me feel better, the government approves of what the government is doing. Whew!
• BoatShoes

  The worst thing about this, and other investigations going on, is that the DoJ is being given the responsibility to investigate. They clearly have a conflict of interest.
  
  I'm beginning to think there should just be a 4th branch of government...An investigatory branch charged with being a watch dog on the Executive branch. Like, we elect a National Inspector General every 4 years but in the middle of a presidential term and she appoints the Inspector's General for each Executive Agency, etc.
• Mulva

  

  This story has broken multiple times over the past decade. The NSA is a disgusting entity and the patriot act needs to be repealed, neither of which has changed in the past 10 years.
  
  Hopefully the outrage finally boils over in the mainstream this time.
• justincredible

  

  Mulva;1453312 wrote:This story has broken multiple times over the past decade. The NSA is a disgusting entity and the patriot act needs to be repealed, neither of which has changed in the past 10 years.
  
  Hopefully the outrage finally boils over in the mainstream this time.

  I can see it now. There is mass outrage from the citizenry (lol) and the NSA is disbanded and the Patriot Act repealed to appease them. Shortly thereafter, boom, major "terrorist" attack.
• BGFalcons82

  

  BoatShoes;1453299 wrote:The worst thing about this, and other investigations going on, is that the DoJ is being given the responsibility to investigate. They clearly have a conflict of interest.
  
  I'm beginning to think there should just be a 4th branch of government...An investigatory branch charged with being a watch dog on the Executive branch. Like, we elect a National Inspector General every 4 years but in the middle of a presidential term and she appoints the Inspector's General for each Executive Agency, etc.

  Ahem...the bolded is already in place. They used to go by the moniker, "The Fourth Estate", but that was before Barry was elected. Today, they have perfected nutlicking to the point they have lost all of their ability to be independent, search for the truth, and believe that it is their duty to be the people's voice.
• fish82

  

  Manhattan Buckeye;1453260 wrote:Is this correct? I know that the Patriot Act allowed government following of flight information (and back in the day, the left wing went NUTS over this), I wasn't aware of actual telephony information gathering.

  The original PA allowed for warrantless wiretaps of inbound international calls to suspected bad guys IIRC, but the wholesale gathering of random phone records is something new.
• BoatShoes

  BGFalcons82;1453326 wrote:Ahem...the bolded is already in place. They used to go by the moniker, "The Fourth Estate", but that was before Barry was elected. Today, they have perfected nutlicking to the point they have lost all of their ability to be independent, search for the truth, and believe that it is their duty to be the people's voice.

  Well aside from the hyperbole, I agree really. Conservatives have complained about supposed liberal media incompetency way longer than Barack Obama has been around. Even with the "New Media" that is openly antagonistic to Obama, it is no good if the executive branch's own employees are the one's investigating problems brought to our attention by the New Media.
• derek bomar

  

  If they stopped terrorists by doing this, would you want them to stop it? Like, if there was no other way to stop them and they had to do this, would you guys be cool with this? Not saying I like what they're doing (I am actually creeped out by it), but they're always going to play the national security card and it seems obvious that if they have the ability to do something, but don't, and then an attack happens, it will get political (Obama helped the turrists! Bush Lied, People Died!)
• BoatShoes

  derek bomar;1453347 wrote:If they stopped terrorists by doing this, would you want them to stop it? Like, if there was no other way to stop them and they had to do this, would you guys be cool with this? Not saying I like what they're doing (I am actually creeped out by it), but they're always going to play the national security card and it seems obvious that if they have the ability to do something, but don't, and then an attack happens, it will get political (Obama helped the turrists! Bush Lied, People Died!)

  We can always think of the marginal case wherein this type of thing prevents harm...same with torturing prisoners. But, does that really justify these type of wholesale, indiscriminate, data collection??? I'm pretty skeptical.
• BGFalcons82

  

  BoatShoes;1453345 wrote:Well aside from the hyperbole, I agree really. Conservatives have complained about supposed liberal media incompetency way longer than Barack Obama has been around. Even with the "New Media" that is openly antagonistic to Obama, it is no good if the executive branch's own employees are the one's investigating problems brought to our attention by the New Media.

  Do you know who broke this story? It wasn't the American media. I wonder why reporters from the U.K., a far more socialist country than ours, is doing our Fourth Estate's supposed job?
• Manhattan Buckeye

  derek bomar;1453347 wrote:If they stopped terrorists by doing this, would you want them to stop it? Like, if there was no other way to stop them and they had to do this, would you guys be cool with this? Not saying I like what they're doing (I am actually creeped out by it), but they're always going to play the national security card and it seems obvious that if they have the ability to do something, but don't, and then an attack happens, it will get political (Obama helped the turrists! Bush Lied, People Died!)

  If it actually stopped terrorists, then there should be full disclosure.
• gut

  I can see how it could be another tool in fighting terrorism, but in light of recent scandals the gubmit simply cannot be trusted with this kind of power. The tinfoil hat crowd is looking less and less crazy these days.
• BoatShoes

  BGFalcons82;1453379 wrote:Do you know who broke this story? It wasn't the American media. I wonder why reporters from the U.K., a far more socialist country than ours, is doing our Fourth Estate's supposed job?

  I agree with what you're saying...but surely there is media in the U.S. that you trust like say the Drudge Report or the Blaze, correct? Even if they broke the story or the Guardian breaks it whatever....it still seems problematic to me that it is going to be the DoJ that does the investigation when they're basically butt buddies with the NSA.
• gut

  BoatShoes;1453493 wrote:I agree with what you're saying...but surely there is media in the U.S. that you trust like say the Drudge Report or the Blaze, correct? Even if they broke the story or the Guardian breaks it whatever....it still seems problematic to me that it is going to be the DoJ that does the investigation when they're basically butt buddies with the NSA.

  Difference being it's a little tougher for the gubmit to seize phone records of The Guardian.
  
  Don't worry, though, Susan Rice - that beacon of good sense and integrity - will fix this.
• gut

  Curious angle I was thinking of....I think it was Bill Maher that said some in the Obama admin are quietly hoping Holder will just step down.
  
  So they are coming around to Holder needs to go, and then this comes out. Timing seems a bit coincidental (although more likely more retribution from the AP)
• tk421

  

  I can't believe anyone is surprised by this. Every single electronic communication is intercepted, they have data on everyone. What do you think the NSA is building in Utah?