Young Adults not taking on debt = bad

• sleeper

  

  http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2013/02/25/debt-young-adults/?hpt=hp_t3
  

  Young adults, however, haven't taken on nearly as much debt as their parents. It's uncertain if the trend will continue as the economy improves, but for now, those under 35 years old have shed debt faster than older ones, according to a report by Pew Research Center released last week. The study doesn't say if this is a good or bad development, but many signs suggest the drop means Millenials are more anxious than responsible about their finances.

  
  The boomers have absolutely ruined this country and it looks like young people are actually the responsible ones. Hilarious that this article is bashing those who aren't piling up massive debt like the boomers have done. If you are over the age of 50, go fuck yourself.
• HitsRus

  

  It could also mean that it's easier to shed debt when interest rates are at bottom.
  
  When I bought my first house, the interest rate was 12.875% Yes, that's not a typo. My house is paid for now...but rates averaged over 8.5%. over the life of the loan.
  That was compliments of the 'greatest generation'.....see how that works sleeper?
• gut

  I might also guess these numbers are skewed by the housing bubble. People over 35 - onto their first house and more - took advantage of the bubble pulling equity out. So that artificially inflated their debt.
  
  People under 35 - early 30's and below when the bubble popped - may not have had that first home yet. And they have been waiting to enter the housing market, or afraid to all together. That's assuming they can get a loan. So their debt is artificially lower.
  
  Plus what HitsRus said about lower rates. Not sure of the impact, though. Certainly it lets people pay down loans faster, but it also means it's cheaper and you'd expect larger loans (like a mortgage). If my rate went up 5pts my monthly payment would almost double! So more debt, but lower debt service.
  
  I see nothing wrong with [responsible] student loan debt and mortgages. I'd do interest only all day every day if I could on a mortgage, at these rates (8% would be more of a push). Financing a car, there again 4-5% with no tax benefit is kind of a push because you should be able to do that in the market. And for many people plunking down $30-$40k for a new car leaves them exposed to a loss of income (i.e. injury or job loss). Yeah, yeah I know don't buy a new car
• sleeper

  

  HitsRus;1395806 wrote:It could also mean that it's easier to shed debt when interest rates are at bottom.
  
  When I bought my first house, the interest rate was 12.875% Yes, that's not a typo. My house is paid for now...but rates averaged over 8.5%. over the life of the loan.
  That was compliments of the 'greatest generation'.....see how that works sleeper?

  Stop calling anyone older than 50 anything other than "the worst generation".
• BGFalcons82

  

  sleeper;1395793 wrote:http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2013/02/25/debt-young-adults/?hpt=hp_t3
  
  
  
  
  The boomers have absolutely ruined this country and it looks like young people are actually the responsible ones. Hilarious that this article is bashing those who aren't piling up massive debt like the boomers have done. If you are over the age of 50, go fuck yourself.

  I agree with many of your posts, sleeper, but I'm not going to fuck myself. That's been carried out by decades-long massive government programs, rules, regulations, taxes, theft of Social Security funds and infringements into our personal lives.
  
  As far as the article, I read one similar to it over the weekend. I am going to argue that the student debt bubble has consumed far more than it's worth, leaving graduates with a huge mountain of debt to pay off before they buy houses and cars. It's no secret that the housing and car industries drive our economy and when they suffer, especially housing, we ALL suffer. When graduates move back in with mom and dad because they owe Uncle Obama and the federally-subsidized universities hundreds of thousands, the economy takes a massive hit.
• sleeper

  

  BGFalcons82;1395820 wrote:I agree with many of your posts, sleeper, but I'm not going to fuck myself. That's been carried out by decades-long massive government programs, rules, regulations, taxes, theft of Social Security funds and infringements into our personal lives.
  
  As far as the article, I read one similar to it over the weekend. I am going to argue that the student debt bubble has consumed far more than it's worth, leaving graduates with a huge mountain of debt to pay off before they buy houses and cars. It's no secret that the housing and car industries drive our economy and when they suffer, especially housing, we ALL suffer. When graduates move back in with mom and dad because they owe Uncle Obama and the federally-subsidized universities hundreds of thousands, the economy takes a massive hit.

  Difference is you will get paid off from your investment and we won't; and you clearly don't give a flying fuck about the younger generations. The history books will not reflect kindly on those born from 1946 - 1964; their legacy will be the destruction of the greatest country that ever was.
• BGFalcons82

  

  sleeper;1395823 wrote:Difference is you will get paid off from your investment and we won't; and you clearly don't give a flying fuck about the younger generations. The history books will not reflect kindly on those born from 1946 - 1964; their legacy will be the destruction of the greatest country that ever was.

  Bullshit. Anyone my age who dies before retirement will be nothing more than a forced contributor to FDR's ginormous Ponzi scheme. YOU will be the beneficiary. As of right now, I've had over $200,000 removed from my earnings to pay for yesterday's retirees. By the time I finish working, it will be over $400,000. How's that for fair? What's the interest payments? HAHAHAHahahahahahahahahaa....none. Does that make you happier?
  
  If you read Belly's thread, you'll see that Big Daddy Government is plotting ways to take our 401K personal investments as well. Since you want me to fuck myself merely because I was born in 1960, you'll get your own brand of fucking when you show up to take my personal wealth.
• sleeper

  

  BGFalcons82;1395831 wrote:Bullshit. Anyone my age who dies before retirement will be nothing more than a forced contributor to FDR's ginormous Ponzi scheme. YOU will be the beneficiary. As of right now, I've had over $200,000 removed from my earnings to pay for yesterday's retirees. By the time I finish working, it will be over $400,000. How's that for fair? What's the interest payments? HAHAHAHahahahahahahahahaa....none. Does that make you happier?
  
  If you read Belly's thread, you'll see that Big Daddy Government is plotting ways to take our 401K personal investments as well. Since you want me to fuck myself merely because I was born in 1960, you'll get your own brand of fucking when you show up to take my personal wealth.

  You'll recoup some of your investment if not all. I will pay at least what you pay by the time I retire if not more because the program is massively underfunded, I will have a lower standard of living paying back the debt the boomers have run up on their paper economy, and I will get ZERO social security or retirement benefits. Your greed has ruined this country and screwed over anyone below the age of 50. :mad:
• sleeper

  

  They should raise taxes to 80% for anyone above the age of 50; they ran the bills up and now it's time for them to pay.
• gut

  "Right" would be recognizing the massive debt accumulated by politicians the boomer's elected, and shouldering their fair share of that.
  
  Medicare is the big problem as far as funding - they collect about 20 cents on the dollar for those benefits. That should be the adjustment for boomers. People still working should see their FICA adjusted to bring that up to parity if they are to receive a full benefit.
  
  I get that you've paid for your SS. But you haven't paid for the Medicare. Blame the politicians or whatever, but you aren't entitled to a full benefit that you've only paid 20% of....you're entitled to 20%.
• gut

  As for the $16T in debt, one day some magical accounting is going to wipe out the half that is just intergovt debt. It's nothing more, essentially, then a future promise to reduce that artificial inflation of the money supply. Won't ever happen or be necessary, so it truly is "funny debt".
  
  The govt has basically captured the deflation by printing money. Theoretically that related debt is an IOU to all Americans for that loss of purchase power that would have resulted from deflation. So if every American is saddled with $40k for their share of the debt, half of that would be like giving the govt $20k to pay off the intergovt debt, which they would then be writing you a check for. It's a wash, and at some point they'll come up with a creative way to clean up that balance sheet without roiling credit ratings and the debt markets.
• stlouiedipalma

  sleeper;1395838 wrote:They should raise taxes to 80% for anyone above the age of 50; they ran the bills up and now it's time for them to pay.

  I think they should raise state income taxes while they're at it. Ooops, I live in Illinois and I don't pay state income taxes. My bad.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  "As for the $16T in debt, one day some magical accounting is going to wipe out the half that is just intergovt debt. It's nothing more, essentially, then a future promise to reduce that artificial inflation of the money supply."
  
  At this point I don't see any other solution. We've mathematically destroyed our currency. Our saving grace is that we are less crappy than other currencies. We've experienced generational theft for decades. It might actually end now that we've more or less stopped making promises to our young people. More like, "Well, we screwed it up, so you take care of that and learn from our mistakes."
  
  But everything is ok, Biden says that the U.S. is tired of a horrid economy and the FLOTUS is presenting Best Picture awards. All is well.
• gut

  stlouiedipalma;1396136 wrote: Ooops, I live in Illinois and I don't pay state income taxes. My bad.

  One of those NINJA tax filers, huh?
• gut

  Manhattan Buckeye;1396139 wrote:
  At this point I don't see any other solution. We've mathematically destroyed our currency. Our saving grace is that we are less crappy than other currencies. We've experienced generational theft for decades. It might actually end now that we've more or less stopped making promises to our young people. More like, "Well, we screwed it up, so you take care of that and learn from our mistakes."
  

  Not sure I completely agree that we've "destroyed" our currency. Like you said, it's globally a game of outrunning the bear. If they hadn't been weakening the dollar our export industry would have died. We're fine vs GBP and EUR, the yen is pretty strong (about 15-20% above where Japan likes it to be)...CAD has done well because of exports. The Yuan is pegged. Not much value in being good, just be a little better than the rest.
  
  But the elephant in the room is that rates aren't going to stay here forever, even in a new low-rate global environment. If rates creep-up 3pts you're talking $500B - look what that would do to spending/deficits!
  
  And not many people are talking about how these rates are badly hurting retirees on fixed incomes. So you start seeing how the gubmit has backed itself into a corner - can't cut SS/Medicare because retirees are already taking it on their interest income.
  
  What pisses me off is most of these politicians don't really care about that. They'll be retired or dead, and most will have accumulated enough money (ahem) such that they can largely insulate themselves from that day of reckoning. Once again it's the poor and middle class, with no such options, that will really suffer.
• Footwedge

  BGFalcons82;1395820 wrote:I agree with many of your posts, sleeper, but I'm not going to fuck myself. That's been carried out by decades-long massive government programs, rules, regulations, taxes, theft of Social Security funds and infringements into our personal lives.
  
  As far as the article, I read one similar to it over the weekend. I am going to argue that the student debt bubble has consumed far more than it's worth, leaving graduates with a huge mountain of debt to pay off before they buy houses and cars. It's no secret that the housing and car industries drive our economy and when they suffer, especially housing, we ALL suffer. When graduates move back in with mom and dad because they owe Uncle Obama and the federally-subsidized universities hundreds of thousands, the economy takes a massive hit.

  Wow BGFalcon hit a home run here with this post. Spot on brother on all accounts.! BTW, look out your window. Do you see the flying pigs?
• Footwedge

  Sleeper...when I retire, I expect to play a lot of golf...I mean a lot of golf on the gubmit dime. Nice tracks too...country clubs if you will...no dog tracks for me. Given us boomers propensity for living into our 80's these days, you and your clan will need to work fiddy..maybe sixty hours a week to pay for our golden years.
  
  Isn't it great? At least there will be plenty of jobs available after us boomers hang up our spikes. My guess that you will even be able to moonlight. Imagine having the job security of working 2 jobs. Today it's hard to find even one. I can see you running your own taxicab company during the day, and then a service company repairing all the automatic check out line machines at Wall Mart at night.
  
  Your job attained from your college education from THE OSU will be done by an Indian at one half the price the market dictates today.
  
  Enjoy!!
• sleeper

  

  Footwedge;1396740 wrote:Sleeper...when I retire, I expect to play a lot of golf...I mean a lot of golf on the gubmit dime. Nice tracks too...country clubs if you will...no dog tracks for me. Given us boomers propensity for living into our 80's these days, you and your clan will need to work fiddy..maybe sixty hours a week to pay for our golden years.
  
  Isn't it great? At least there will be plenty of jobs available after us boomers hang up our spikes. My guess that you will even be able to moonlight. Imagine having the job security of working 2 jobs. Today it's hard to find even one. I can see you running your own taxicab company during the day, and then a service company repairing all the automatic check out line machines at Wall Mart at night.
  
  Your job attained from your college education from THE OSU will be done by an Indian at one half the price the market dictates today.
  
  Enjoy!!

  Except when you are in your 60's or 70's you'll be eating cat food for all I care. You will pay for your spending. :thumbup:
• stlouiedipalma

  Footwedge;1396740 wrote:Sleeper...when I retire, I expect to play a lot of golf...I mean a lot of golf on the gubmit dime. Nice tracks too...country clubs if you will...no dog tracks for me. Given us boomers propensity for living into our 80's these days, you and your clan will need to work fiddy..maybe sixty hours a week to pay for our golden years.
  
  Isn't it great? At least there will be plenty of jobs available after us boomers hang up our spikes. My guess that you will even be able to moonlight. Imagine having the job security of working 2 jobs. Today it's hard to find even one. I can see you running your own taxicab company during the day, and then a service company repairing all the automatic check out line machines at Wall Mart at night.
  
  Your job attained from your college education from THE OSU will be done by an Indian at one half the price the market dictates today.
  
  Enjoy!!

  Nice scenario, one that I'm living right now. My frequency of playing golf has jumped by leaps and bounds since I retired. Played some sweet courses in Myrtle earlier this month, probably hit the Trail in May and in June it's back to Myrtle for a two-week stay with plenty of golf. Just think, in a year and a half I'll start drawing Social Security. Keep at it youngsters. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
• Ghmothwdwhso

  sleeper;1395837 wrote:You'll recoup some of your investment if not all. I will pay at least what you pay by the time I retire if not more because the program is massively underfunded, I will have a lower standard of living paying back the debt the boomers have run up on their paper economy, and I will get ZERO social security or retirement benefits. Your greed has ruined this country and screwed over anyone below the age of 50. :mad:

  Place the blame where it belongs, not the children of them. FDR's ponzi scheme's have and will continue to ruin this country. Those that voted his liberal ass in are the ones who are responsible, not their children.
  
  Those that placed government in front of self-sufficiency started this mess we have now. "We didn't start the fire, it's been burning........"
  
  Sleeper needs a history lesson on what happened before 1946.
• Ghmothwdwhso

  stlouiedipalma;1396813 wrote:Nice scenario, one that I'm living right now. My frequency of playing golf has jumped by leaps and bounds since I retired. Played some sweet courses in Myrtle earlier this month, probably hit the Trail in May and in June it's back to Myrtle for a two-week stay with plenty of golf. Just think, in a year and a half I'll start drawing Social Security. Keep at it youngsters. There is light at the end of the tunnel.

  Sleeper, here is your history lesson. Numbskulls like Stlouie have played the game that FDR started, and have raped the system. You and I will continue to pay for their follies.
• Cleveland Buck

  

  If people stop borrowing then the GDP stops growing, which would really put your masters in a bind when they try to tell you that we are in a recovery. Debt is the only "growth" this economy has seen in 30 years. The central plan has failed. Well, at least for us. They are living high on the hog siphoning away our wealth with the printing press.
• gut

  Cleveland Buck;1397580 wrote:If people stop borrowing then the GDP stops growing, which would really put your masters in a bind when they try to tell you that we are in a recovery. Debt is the only "growth" this economy has seen in 30 years. The central plan has failed. Well, at least for us. They are living high on the hog siphoning away our wealth with the printing press.

  Certainly true under Obama. Is it possible Obama will be the first POTUS for which the private sector barely grew, if at all, after 8 years and despite coming in at the bottom of a deep recession? He definitely seems dead-set on achieving that.
• stlouiedipalma

  Ghmothwdwhso;1397527 wrote:Sleeper, here is your history lesson. Numbskulls like Stlouie have played the game that FDR started, and have raped the system. You and I will continue to pay for their follies.

  Read my post, friend. I don't get to rape the system for another 18 months, but when I do I'll laugh all the way to the bank knowing that fools like you will be helping to support me. Besides, 40 years of working and contributing into the "game" counts for something in my book. You may call it a Ponzi scheme, but I'm willing to bet that when the time comes you'll have your hand out just like all of us. Unless your high moral standards forces you to take a pass.
• gut

  stlouiedipalma;1397591 wrote:Read my post, friend. I don't get to rape the system for another 18 months, but when I do I'll laugh all the way to the bank knowing that fools like you will be helping to support me. Besides, 40 years of working and contributing into the "game" counts for something in my book. You may call it a Ponzi scheme, but I'm willing to bet that when the time comes you'll have your hand out just like all of us. Unless your high moral standards forces you to take a pass.

  I'm still curious to know how you avoid state income taxes in IL. Unless you're full of shit.
  
  You can't be golfing off of just SS...do you have an exempt pension as well?