Young Adults not taking on debt = bad

• believer

  

  stlouiedipalma;1397591 wrote:Read my post, friend. I don't get to rape the system for another 18 months, but when I do I'll laugh all the way to the bank knowing that fools like you will be helping to support me. Besides, 40 years of working and contributing into the "game" counts for something in my book. You may call it a Ponzi scheme, but I'm willing to bet that when the time comes you'll have your hand out just like all of us. Unless your high moral standards forces you to take a pass.

  For once you and I sort of agree on something.
  
  I can actually understand why guys like Sleeper and Ghmoth are pissed. I remember having the same "your generation screwed the system - guys like me are paying your bills - Social Security won't be around when I retire, blah, blah" arguments with my father when I was in my 20's and 30's.
  
  Well, I'm in my upper 50's now. I'm still paying into SS and footing the bill for my dad's retirement and have been paying for other people's retirement since I was 15 years old.
  
  According to the Feds at the Social Security office, I've paid in - AT NO CHOICE OF MY OWN of course by Federal mandate - well over $300,000 into FDR's "system" and my employers have matched that amount.
  
  So I'm thinking, "I wonder what that $300,000 would have looked look like if I had had the opportunity to control where where MY money was invested? Maybe my house would be paid off, maybe that $300,000 might be a cool million, or maybe I would have blown it all." I dunno...but it would have been MY choice not the government's.
  
  But FDR insisted that we all (except Congress, public employees, etc. of course) MUST participate in the Great Ponzi Scheme. And that ponzi scheme was created - not by the eeeeeevil greeedy Boomers and not by the Greatest Generation, but by the generation that introduced us to things like the Great Depression and WWII.
  
  So since the Feds forced me to participate in the Great Ponzi Scheme the past 4 decades, I'm looking forward to watching the Tattooed Whiner Generation paying for my retirement when I hit 65 1/2. Just 9 more years to go!:thumbup:
• believer

  

  stlouiedipalma;1397591 wrote:Read my post, friend. I don't get to rape the system for another 18 months, but when I do I'll laugh all the way to the bank knowing that fools like you will be helping to support me. Besides, 40 years of working and contributing into the "game" counts for something in my book. You may call it a Ponzi scheme, but I'm willing to bet that when the time comes you'll have your hand out just like all of us. Unless your high moral standards forces you to take a pass.

  For once you and I sort of agree on something.
  
  I can actually understand why guys like Sleeper and Ghmoth are pissed. I remember having the same "your generation screwed the system - guys like me are paying your bills - Social Security won't be around when I retire, blah, blah" arguments with my father when I was in my 20's and 30's.
  
  Well, I'm in my upper 50's now. I'm still paying into SS and footing the bill for my dad's retirement and have been paying for other people's retirement since I was 15 years old.
  
  According to the Feds at the Social Security office, I've paid in - AT NO CHOICE OF MY OWN and naturally by Federal mandate - well over $300,000 into FDR's "system" and my employers have matched that amount.
  
  So I'm thinking, "I wonder what that $300,000 would have looked like if I had had the opportunity to control where MY money was invested? Maybe my house would be paid off, maybe that $300,000 might be a cool million, or maybe I would have blown it all." I dunno...but it would have been MY choice not the government's.
  
  But FDR insisted that we all (except Congress, public employees, etc. of course) MUST participate in the Great Ponzi Scheme. And that ponzi scheme was created - not by the eeeeeevil greeedy Boomers and not by the Greatest Generation, but by the generation that introduced us to other brilliantly conceived ideas like the Great Depression and WWII.
  
  So since the Feds forced me to participate in the Great Ponzi Scheme the past 4 decades, I'm looking forward to watching the Tattooed Whiner Generation pay for my retirement when I hit 65 1/2. Just 9 more years to go!
  
  :thumbup:
• BGFalcons82

  

  believer;1397602 wrote:For once you and I sort of agree on something.
  
  I can actually understand why guys like Sleeper and Ghmoth are pissed. I remember having the same "your generation screwed the system - guys like me are paying your bills - Social Security won't be around when I retire, blah, blah" arguments with my father when I was in my 20's and 30's.
  
  Well, I'm in my upper 50's now. I'm still paying into SS and footing the bill for my dad's retirement and have been paying for other people's retirement since I was 15 years old.
  
  According to the Feds at the Social Security office, I've paid in - AT NO CHOICE OF MY OWN and naturally by Federal mandate - well over $300,000 into FDR's "system" and my employers have matched that amount.
  
  So I'm thinking, "I wonder what that $300,000 would have looked look like if I had had the opportunity to control where where MY money was invested? Maybe my house would be paid off, maybe that $300,000 might be a cool million, or maybe I would have blown it all." I dunno...but it would have been MY choice not the government's.
  
  But FDR insisted that we all (except Congress, public employees, etc. of course) MUST participate in the Great Ponzi Scheme. And that ponzi scheme was created - not by the eeeeeevil greeedy Boomers and not by the Greatest Generation, but by the generation that introduced us to other brilliantly conceived ideas like the Great Depression and WWII.
  
  So since the Feds forced me to participate in the Great Ponzi Scheme the past 4 decades, I'm looking forward to watching the Tattooed Whiner Generation pay for my retirement when I hit 65 1/2. Just 9 more years to go!
  
  :thumbup:

  Post of the week. I'll have a beer in your honor
• sleeper

  

  So since the Feds forced me to participate in the Great Ponzi Scheme the past 4 decades, I'm looking forward to watching the Tattooed Whiner Generation pay for my retirement when I hit 65 1/2. Just 9 more years to go!

  You didn't pay enough. Enjoy your unfunded retirement! :laugh:
• gut

  At some point someone is going to look at Medicare and realize you only put in 20 cents on the dollar. So you can make the claim you paid for your SS, but Medicare benefits are ripe to be seriously cut.
  
  And SS, for that matter, has (like many pensions) made bad assumptions on returns. When these things were created 30-40 years ago, markets were returning 10-11% on average, so a 9% IRR seemed perfectly reasonable. That's clearly changed, and likely to remain lower for some time going forward. That also dictates a cut in benefits.
• FatHobbit

  

  gut;1397980 wrote:And SS, for that matter, has (like many pensions) made bad assumptions on returns. When these things were created 30-40 years ago, markets were returning 10-11% on average, so a 9% IRR seemed perfectly reasonable. That's clearly changed, and likely to remain lower for some time going forward. That also dictates a cut in benefits.

  Did Washington not raid the social security fund some time ago?
• BoatShoes

  FatHobbit;1398006 wrote:Did Washington not raid the social security fund some time ago?

  The whole concept of "raiding the social security 'trust fund'" is silly in and of itself in our monetary system. It is simply an account at the New York Fed that the Treasury/Fed duel-headed monetary monster could freely replenish at the click of a button if it wanted. It is an accounting gimick that the FED debits the Treasury General Account at the Fed and then credits the Treasury's other account called the "SS Trust Fund" when the treasury pays back the "fund" what it borrowed.
  
  The Treasury doesn't "need" Believer's 300k in order to pay him SS benefits in 9 years. They could credit the Treasury's SS trust fund account with a push of a button and then subsequently credit his bank's reserve account at his regional fed which then credits his bank account without ever collecting a dime from him or getting paid back from the Treasury's general account because we're just talking about digital numbers on a server.
  
  There's no solvency concern at all with regard to the SS trust fund because we're not on a gold standard or something similar. The only constraints on doing so are that are concerns about inflation and that SS beneficiaries would be getting a "free lunch" as they say. Believer feels justified in getting those checks/bank account credits because he had 300k subtracted from his earnings over his lifetime. He might not feel that way if when he was old we paid him Social security with "funny Bernanke money" and didn't subtract payroll taxes out of his paychecks.
  
  Also you wouldn't be able to build support for cutting social security benefits by telling people it's "going bankrupt"
• gut

  Yeah, the SS fund, along with others, is just fungible money.
  
  It doesn't take much to make it "solvent" for a long time. Income limits on benefits, maybe trimming the COL index, probably bump contributions a hair, raise the income amount it's collected on....
  
  You can say tax increases are tax increases, but a social insurance program where I'm supposed to receive those benefits back (essentially a deferred pay mechanism) is infinitely more palatable than soaking me to flush money down the toilet.
  
  As I said, Medicare is a completely different story.
  
  I'd also like to see other entitlements rolled-in, sort of a running balance thing. Like if you collect $10k in unemployment insurance, your future SS benefit decreases $10k. You're on food stamps for 5 years? That comes out of your future SS benefit.
• stlouiedipalma

  believer;1397602 wrote:For once you and I sort of agree on something.
  
  I can actually understand why guys like Sleeper and Ghmoth are pissed. I remember having the same "your generation screwed the system - guys like me are paying your bills - Social Security won't be around when I retire, blah, blah" arguments with my father when I was in my 20's and 30's.
  
  Well, I'm in my upper 50's now. I'm still paying into SS and footing the bill for my dad's retirement and have been paying for other people's retirement since I was 15 years old.
  
  According to the Feds at the Social Security office, I've paid in - AT NO CHOICE OF MY OWN and naturally by Federal mandate - well over $300,000 into FDR's "system" and my employers have matched that amount.
  
  So I'm thinking, "I wonder what that $300,000 would have looked like if I had had the opportunity to control where MY money was invested? Maybe my house would be paid off, maybe that $300,000 might be a cool million, or maybe I would have blown it all." I dunno...but it would have been MY choice not the government's.
  
  But FDR insisted that we all (except Congress, public employees, etc. of course) MUST participate in the Great Ponzi Scheme. And that ponzi scheme was created - not by the eeeeeevil greeedy Boomers and not by the Greatest Generation, but by the generation that introduced us to other brilliantly conceived ideas like the Great Depression and WWII.
  
  So since the Feds forced me to participate in the Great Ponzi Scheme the past 4 decades, I'm looking forward to watching the Tattooed Whiner Generation pay for my retirement when I hit 65 1/2. Just 9 more years to go!
  
  :thumbup:

  Great post. Yeah, you might have been able to make more if you could invest it yourself, but it is what it is and I don't think it will change. There are too many seniors out there who would only succeed in making a broker money while losing theirs. And you do know that you can take reduced benefits at age 62, don't you? It's a little less than the age 66 benefit, but it's there for the taking. I'll take it next year and allow my IRA and other shady investments to make more money for me, at least until age 70 1/2, when we are forced by law to begin withdrawing it.