The Corollary of Art Modell's move and American Job Outsourcing Overseas
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gut
That's right, I forgot. You're economics "education" begins and ends with all you've forgotten about Adam Smith, and you've not learned a thing since.Footwedge;1263940 wrote:2. I am hardly "clueless" on competition. That's always been your feeble retort. It is YOU that is feeble minded on what free market competition entails...as espoused by the original "free hand" marketers of Adam Smith's day.
But answer the question you've now ducked twice - how many outsourced jobs have we lost since 1980? It's a simple question, have we lost more than 5M jobs to outsourcing since 1980, or total ever? It's entirely relevant, because when you advocate protectionism you wave buh-bye to those 5M jobs. Your inability to grasp this is expectedly unsurprising. The question is entirely relevant, and if you knew the answer you'd understand why. But if you understood, we wouldn't be having these discussions. So please, go teach yourself somethign and then come back to "enlighten "me.
And I've corrected you once before, I don't have three degrees in finance and economics. Do you ever learn anything? -
Cleveland Buck
Why don't we slap tariffs on products from Michigan to keep jobs in Ohio? Tariffs on products from Columbus to keep jobs in Cleveland? Or better yet, just stop buying products made outside of your home. Then you and your family will have plenty of jobs to do. And a terrific standard of living. -
Footwedge
Why don't we force Michigan people to work for 2 bucks an hour, disallow any overtime pay, no vacation, force 14 year old girls into the factory for 70 hour work , get rid of overtime pay, and if they they get sick, have no STD or LTD. Oh, and don't have any OSHA laws ensuring any safety standards. Get sick or hurt? Tough, you starve. Got to love me some freedom, no? And if they don't like their job, they can go find another one........ in Michigan....... with the exact same labor laws (sic). Want to move from Michigan in order to better your life? Logistics and government won't permit it. But don't you worry, the cars will cost $500.00 less for the rest of us. Not to mention the Michigan State government will skim off trillions of dollars from these human rights labor criminal enterprises and buy up Ohio's buildings and land. Pennsylvamia too. And don't forget about the Ohio and Pennsylvanian corporate elitists who have their coiffers lined as well...in circumventing labor laws thatCleveland Buck;1264313 wrote:Why don't we slap tariffs on products from Michigan to keep jobs in Ohio? Tariffs on products from Columbus to keep jobs in Cleveland? Or better yet, just stop buying products made outside of your home. Then you and your family will have plenty of jobs to do. And a terrific standard of living.
have allowed the states to be the wealthiest in the world for a period extending over 100 years.
As Sleeper woould say.... Enjoy!! -
Footwedge
I have already answered your questions with published links. You want me to do at again? As in the tenth time or so? I will. But not until you answer mine.gut;1264143 wrote:That's right, I forgot. You're economics "education" begins and ends with all you've forgotten about Adam Smith, and you've not learned a thing since.
But answer the question you've now ducked twice - how many outsourced jobs have we lost since 1980? It's a simple question, have we lost more than 5M jobs to outsourcing since 1980, or total ever? It's entirely relevant, because when you advocate protectionism you wave buh-bye to those 5M jobs. Your inability to grasp this is expectedly unsurprising. The question is entirely relevant, and if you knew the answer you'd understand why. But if you understood, we wouldn't be having these discussions. So please, go teach yourself somethign and then come back to "enlighten "me.
And I've corrected you once before, I don't have three degrees in finance and economics. Do you ever learn anything? -
FootwedgeCon_Alma;1263955 wrote:Who said that? I didn't although his family certainl was in trouble with the personal loans they had taken out..-
Art Modell was a horrible businessman who had the highest attendence in the league with the best fanbase. He made bad decisions on buying out the Stadium from the city, and then he wanted to tear up his contract after the dumbass finally realized that there is a thingy called "maintenance costs" on a 55 year old structure. He had every opportunity to negotiate his plight with Cleveland and Cleveland officials. After some tacit crying, he clandestinely met with financiers...including the slimeball Al Lerner in setting up the move to Baltimore. He never, ever, gave the city of Cleveland and their fans an opportunity to solve the problem. The fucker just bolted...just as Robert Irsay had done a decade earlier.
]
Um..........maybe because you said this???How did you come with going "belly up' from my posts?
"Not only is he able to but he should if there's a greater opportunity. It's the reason his business exists."
And even if you believe that you are crazy. How many NFL franchises have "ceased to exist" since 1950? The answer is zero. -
Footwedge
You gonna address my questions today or not? Or is hiding your modus operandi after being handed your lunch. I've re-listed these questions for the umpteenth time in responding to Buck up above.gut;1264143 wrote:That's right, I forgot. You're economics "education" begins and ends with all you've forgotten about Adam Smith, and you've not learned a thing since.
But answer the question you've now ducked twice - how many outsourced jobs have we lost since 1980? It's a simple question, have we lost more than 5M jobs to outsourcing since 1980, or total ever? It's entirely relevant, because when you advocate protectionism you wave buh-bye to those 5M jobs. Your inability to grasp this is expectedly unsurprising. The question is entirely relevant, and if you knew the answer you'd understand why. But if you understood, we wouldn't be having these discussions. So please, go teach yourself somethign and then come back to "enlighten "me.
And I've corrected you once before, I don't have three degrees in finance and economics. Do you ever learn anything?
Go. -
Cleveland Buck
What does this have to do with what I said? You can ensure that the labor standards in your home are up to your liking, so once again, why wouldn't the ideal situation be to stop buying products made outside of your home?Footwedge;1264399 wrote:Why don't we force Michigan people to work for 2 bucks an hour, disallow any overtime pay, no vacation, force 14 year old girls into the factory for 70 hour work , get rid of overtime pay, and if they they get sick, have no STD or LTD. Oh, and don't have any OSHA laws ensuring any safety standards. Get sick or hurt? Tough, you starve. Got to love me some freedom, no? And if they don't like their job, they can go find another one........ in Michigan....... with the exact same labor laws (sic). Want to move from Michigan in order to better your life? Logistics and government won't permit it. But don't you worry, the cars will cost $500.00 less for the rest of us. Not to mention the Michigan State government will skim off trillions of dollars from these human rights labor criminal enterprises and buy up Ohio's buildings and land. Pennsylvamia too. And don't forget about the Ohio and Pennsylvanian corporate elitists who have their coiffers lined as well...in circumventing labor laws that
have allowed the states to be the wealthiest in the world for a period extending over 100 years.
As Sleeper woould say.... Enjoy!! -
gut
I'll answer your questions when you stop ducking the question I originally asked.Footwedge;1264408 wrote:You gonna address my questions today or not? Or is hiding your modus operandi after being handed your lunch. I've re-listed these questions for the umpteenth time in responding to Buck up above.
Go.
For the fourth time, how many jobs have we lost from outsourcing - is this number greater than the 5M people working for foreign companies in the US? Simple question, I wonder why you don't answer... -
Footwedge
Answer my questions.gut;1264602 wrote:I'll answer your questions when you stop ducking the question I originally asked.
For the fourth time, how many jobs have we lost from outsourcing - is this number greater than the 5M people working for foreign companies in the US? Simple question, I wonder why you don't answer... -
FootwedgeHere's one link Gut. More if you want. Those that preach that "globalization is a win, win" are the sleaziest of slimeballs imaginable. I've read a few books on the subject and those that haven't really shouldn't even comment. For the 86% of Americans that are still working, count your blessings. Because there are plenty of great American citizens who will live their senior years in total poverty and die with Medicaid paying for their funeral expenses.
"The U.S. worker suffers and even what is left of meager social security to make sure people don't starve is under attack. Multinational corporations are busy making their global labor arbitrage a reality. They don't care about nations or the United States and especially the American worker. Either does the White House or Congress for that matter. It's global labor arbitrage all the way, baby, and the U.S. worker be damned. Who cares if it destroys the nation in their eyes. Multinational corporations own the government and the politicians and increasingly the courts through legal costs. Regardless of the statistics pleading despairingly for these multinationals to stop, their siege against the U.S. middle class, is like Sherman's march pillaging the South during the Civil War. All is progressing as planned..."
http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/where-are-jobs-offshore-outsourced-course -
Con_Alma
I have never brought up going "belly Up" anywhere. You might wish I had said or even inferred that they were going "belly up" but you won't find it in my posts anywhere.Footwedge;1264402 wrote:Art Modell was a horrible businessman who had the highest attendence in the league with the best fanbase. He made bad decisions on buying out the Stadium from the city, and then he wanted to tear up his contract after the dumbass finally realized that there is a thingy called "maintenance costs" on a 55 year old structure. He had every opportunity to negotiate his plight with Cleveland and Cleveland officials. After some tacit crying, he clandestinely met with financiers...including the slimeball Al Lerner in setting up the move to Baltimore. He never, ever, gave the city of Cleveland and their fans an opportunity to solve the problem. The ****er just bolted...just as Robert Irsay had done a decade earlier.
]
Um..........maybe because you said this???
"Not only is he able to but he should if there's a greater opportunity. It's the reason his business exists."
And even if you believe that you are crazy. How many NFL franchises have "ceased to exist" since 1950? The answer is zero.
There is greater opportunities with some franchises than others. Some have greater revenue than others. If he has greater opportunity he should take it. Some stadiums have better revenue opportunity through luxury boxes and advertising. ...especially at the time of Modell's move. The beauty of the NFL is the revenue sharing that takes place.
He owes the fans and the city nothing...just like the fans and the city owe him or the current Browns, the Indians, and the Cavaliers nothing.
An owner isn't obligated to give the city or county first chances at something. They are obligated to the contract signed...that's it. If they have better opportunity elsewhere, they* are crazy if they don't take it. -
Manhattan Buckeye"Here's one link Gut. More if you want. Those that preach that "globalization is a win, win" are the sleaziest of slimeballs imaginable. I've read a few books on the subject and those that haven't really shouldn't even comment. For the 86% of Americans that are still working, count your blessings. Because there are plenty of great American citizens who will live their senior years in total poverty and die with Medicaid paying for their funeral expenses.
"The U.S. worker suffers and even what is left of meager social security to make sure people don't starve is under attack. Multinational corporations are busy making their global labor arbitrage a reality. They don't care about nations or the United States and especially the American worker. Either does the White House or Congress for that matter. It's global labor arbitrage all the way, baby, and the U.S. worker be damned. Who cares if it destroys the nation in their eyes. Multinational corporations own the government and the politicians and increasingly the courts through legal costs. Regardless of the statistics pleading despairingly for these multinationals to stop, their siege against the U.S. middle class, is like Sherman's march pillaging the South during the Civil War. All is progressing as planned..."
Well that was interesting, a random blog with a nom de plume author, I'm actually dumber for having read that link. Thanks Footwedge. Excepting the awful grammar (Either does the White House or Congress for that matter) and terrible spelling (In other words, even thoough the population is increasing) no part of that article made any coherent point. I often wonder where some people get their ideas, now I know. -
gut
What did you expect from the most well-read illiterate on the board? He still hasn't answered my simple direct question, just more obfuscation and deflection.Manhattan Buckeye;1265193 wrote: Well that was interesting, a random blog with a nom de plume author, I'm actually dumber for having read that link. Thanks Footwedge. Excepting the awful grammar (Either does the White House or Congress for that matter) and terrible spelling (In other words, even thoough the population is increasing) no part of that article made any coherent point. I often wonder where some people get their ideas, now I know.
Americans have voted for globalization with their own wallets. The whole "war on outsourcing" is nothing but liberal propaganda to fire-up their union base. -
gut
I want only need one link that answers my question - How many jobs have been lost to outsourcing? Then we'll talk about how that compares with the 5M+ people in the US working for foreign companies.Footwedge;1264974 wrote:Here's one link Gut. More if you want. -
Footwedge
Says who? Some douchebag that is a CEO somewhere? Hmmmmm? So you and MB are suggesting that outsourcing has had a net enployment gain for the US economy. Is that it? Bwaaaahahahaha.gut;1265225 wrote:I want only need one link that answers my question - How many jobs have been lost to outsourcing? Then we'll talk about how that compares with the 5M+ people in the US working for foreign companies.
BTW...your buddy Arthur B Modell was a staunch right winged conservative. Do you think the libbbbbruhl Rooney family would have moved the Steelers had their stadium's roof leaked? -
Con_Alma
I don't think Rooneys would move the team. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good decision if there was a better opportunity to do so.Footwedge;1265234 wrote:Says who? Some douchebag that is a CEO somewhere? Hmmmmm? So you and MB are suggesting that outsourcing has had a net enployment gain for the US economy. Is that it? Bwaaaahahahaha.
BTW...your buddy Arthur B Modell was a staunch right winged conservative. Do you think the libbbbbruhl Rooney family would have moved the Steelers had their stadium's roof leaked? -
Footwedge
I never saw pro globalization on a ballot. Is Pat Buchanan a union guy? What about Paul C. Roberts, Reagan's economic advisor and former editor for the WSJ. Not to mention conservative pundit Lou Dobbs...a guy who can't stand unions....and one who has written a book on the subject.gut;1265223 wrote:What did you expect from the most well-read illiterate on the board? He still hasn't answered my simple direct question, just more obfuscation and deflection.
Americans have voted for globalization with their own wallets. The whole "war on outsourcing" is nothing but liberal propaganda to fire-up their union base.
I listed 5 questions above..not once, twice, or thrice...but probably double digits.
With all your financial and economic degrees that you own, certainly you would answer the questions by now. Tick tock...tick tock. How about you MB? With all your international diplomacy under your belt that you are so wont to brag about, go ahead and give it a shot. -
gut
5M+ people work for foreign companies here in the US. How many jobs have we lost to outsourcing?Footwedge;1265234 wrote:Says who? Some douchebag that is a CEO somewhere? Hmmmmm? So you and MB are suggesting that outsourcing has had a net enployment gain for the US economy. Is that it?
I wonder why it is you continue to duck and dodge the question and set-up strawmen to argue against. For someone who claims not to be a liberal, you sure love to regurgitate their propaganda. -
Footwedge
A good decision based on what exactly?Con_Alma;1265239 wrote:I don't think Rooneys would move the team. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good decision if there was a better opportunity to do so. -
Footwedgegut;1265241 wrote:5M+ people work for foreign companies here in the US. How many jobs have we lost to outsourcing?
I wonder why it is you continue to duck and dodge the question and set-up strawmen to argue against. For someone who claims not to be a liberal, you sure love to regurgitate their propaganda.
The questions...tick tock...tick tock....tick tock. -
Con_Alma
It's a good decision to move if there's increased value and economic opportunity for the owners. It's a bad decision to move without such.Footwedge;1265242 wrote:A good decision based on what exactly? -
gut
You've yet to answer the question I first posed to you. You are pretending I am dodging you when I am simply waiting for you to answer the question that has been posed to you like half a dozen time...before you tried to redirect, deflect, and obfsucate the issue.Footwedge;1265240 wrote:I never saw pro globalization on a ballot. Is Pat Buchanan a union guy? What about Paul C. Roberts, Reagan's economic advisor and former editor for the WSJ. Not to mention conservative pundit Lou Dobbs...a guy who can't stand unions....and one who has written a book on the subject.
I listed 5 questions above..not once, twice, or thrice...but probably double digits.
With all your financial and economic degrees that you own, certainly you would answer the questions by now. Tick tock...tick tock. How about you MB? With all your international diplomacy under your belt that you are so wont to brag about, go ahead and give it a shot.
It's a simple question. For such an expert on outsourcing and it's destruction and evils, one would think you would know this very basic answer. Yet, it's becoming increasingly clear your position on outsourcing is based on emotion rather than facts and insight.
I asked you this question in post #9. You've attempted to answer it with more questions. Just answer the question and quit stalling. How many jobs have been lost to outsourcing? -
Footwedge
Just pulled these off of my library shelf. Have read them all...gut;1265225 wrote:I want only need one link that answers my question - How many jobs have been lost to outsourcing? Then we'll talk about how that compares with the 5M+ people in the US working for foreign companies.
1. "The War for Wealth".... The true story of globalization, or why the flat world is broken...Gabor Steingart
2. "With Liberty and Justice For Some" How the Law is used to destroy equality and protect the powerful..Glenn Greenwald
3. Exporting Greed....Why Corporate Greed is Shipping American Jobs Overseas.... Lou Dobbs
4. Empire of Illusion. The End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle....Chris Hedges.
Of the 4, only Hedges is a liberal.
I don't need to list links. But....hmmmm...so interesting that YOU won't provide links to your claim of adding 5 million American jobs. Lemme guess...your links are supported by a CEO of an international conglomerate, amirite? Of course Iamrite. A lying POS I am sure. -
gutLook Foot, it's no a difficult question. I'm not interested in books you claim to have read and not understood. I'm interest in your answer to a simple question.
How many jobs have been outsourced? Either you don't know the answer, or you don't like the answer you found.
I'll provide multiple links on people working for foreign companies in the US when you can tell us how many jobs have been outsourced. Nice duck and dodge, though. I'm sure if my 5M+ number was wrong the outsourcing guru would have already provided links showing that. -
Footwedge
So maybe you could celebrate the life of Arthur B at the stadium today and give him a much deserved moment of silence....maybe crown him executive of the year for 1995....and perhaps offer your insight to those that surround you there on the business acumen of said Arthur B. Good luck with that.Con_Alma;1265247 wrote:It's a good decision to move if there's increased value and economic opportunity for the owners. It's a bad decision to move without such.