How to fix public schools

• ernest_t_bass

  

  wkfan;904669 wrote:Teaching kid 'life skills' is a parents job. How to manage a checkbook, etc is not the job of the 'normal' school distrct, IMO.

  Most adults to not know this skill, and it is a very valuable life skill. I teach accounting (which is basic bookkeeping in HS). You telling me that class is not needed at the HS level?
• ernest_t_bass

  

  I Wear Pants;904680 wrote:Um, I don't know where you went to school but kids do fail to pass grades. If you don't pass the required classes you don't graduate. That's the reality now. Where are they doing otherwise?

  LOL. They now ship them off to what is called an "opportunity school." This is one of my biggest pet peeves. If a kid simply won't do their work, the school does not want them to fail, and MOST-CERTAINLY does not want them to fail to graduate. You know why? B/c it makes the school look bad, and hurts the school's numbers! That is all that schools really care about anymore (administration) is numbers.
  
  If people don't realize that students don't really matter (except to the teachers) anymore, then they are extremely naive.
• cruiser_96

  

  Enter 9th grade at (youngest 14, oldest 16) 15 years of age. Maybe they turn 16 that year, but whatever. My point goes with wkfan in that I've seen, first hand, kids with 4, 5 or even 6 "F's" out of 6 or 7 periods worth of classes (thank goodness for gym - more on that in a minute - and a lunch) The students do this not for the first 9 weeks or semester, but the entire year... DESPITE the efforts of teachers, aides, instructional tutoring, LOWERING OF STANDARDS, etc. NOT ONLY THAT, they start the first semester of their second year of high school out that way.
  
  Now, bad grades are one thing, bad behavior is another. When both of those are present, it's obvious, that student is not cut out for public institution like school.
  
  Gym class... It used to be you had to change. It has deteriorated to you only have to be mobile for 5 or ten minutes because too many kids were failing. Schools thought that looked bad on the school, so they lowered the standard. Guess what... PEOPLE ARE STILL FAILING GYM!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
  
  Whatever, dude.
• cruiser_96

  

  ernest_t_bass;905287 wrote:Most adults to not know this skill, and it is a very valuable life skill. I teach accounting (which is basic bookkeeping in HS). You telling me that class is not needed at the HS level?

  Basic accountability. Not spending more than we have. That is a basic skill that must be taught. Unfortunately, we have lost sight of the concept of accountability. See our federal government (BOTH parties) for an example. Just saying.
  
  BTW: admin only caring about public perception is spot on.
• wkfan

  ernest_t_bass;905287 wrote:Most adults to not know this skill, and it is a very valuable life skill. I teach accounting (which is basic bookkeeping in HS). You telling me that class is not needed at the HS level?

  Accounting (or basic bookeeping) and managing a checkbook are COMPLETELY different things.
  
  No, this is something that a parent should teach in our current environment. If resources were plentiful, I would have a different viewpoint...but schools need to concentrate their valuable and completely over-stretched resources on academics, not on such minor life skills.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  wkfan;905407 wrote:Accounting (or basic bookeeping) and managing a checkbook are COMPLETELY different things.
  
  No, this is something that a parent should teach in our current environment. If resources were plentiful, I would have a different viewpoint...but schools need to concentrate their valuable and completely over-stretched resources on academics, not on such minor life skills.

  You must have missed where I said that, "MOST ADULTS DON'T KNOW HOW TO BALANCE A CHECKBOOK!"
• wkfan

  ernest_t_bass;905424 wrote:You must have missed where I said that, "MOST ADULTS DON'T KNOW HOW TO BALANCE A CHECKBOOK!"

  Well, based on what you actually wrote, I was not sure of your point.....
  

  ernest_t_bass;905287 wrote:Most adults to not know this skill, and it is a very valuable life skill.

  I never said that an Accounting course was not a good thing to teach in high school. Reconciling a checkbook is another matter.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  wkfan;905428 wrote:Well, based on what you actually wrote, I was not sure of your point.....
  
  
  
  I never said that an Accounting course was not a good thing to teach in high school. Reconciling a checkbook is another matter.

  Well, based on what you... never mind, I'm retarded.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  When I was in 8th grade, they offered a "general business" class that was basically how to take care of your home finances, and included things like balancing a checkbook.
  
  I was in a college prep track, but took this just because it seemed like a good skill to learn. Now, could my parents have taught me this? Sure. And I have no doubt they would have, if I had asked.
  
  But since the class was there and it didn't take anything away from my college track, I went ahead and took it. Kind of like typing which, at that time was something mostly general studies kids took along with college kids who wanted to be able to type their own papers.
  
  So much has changed since then...
• I Wear Pants

  wkfan;905428 wrote:Well, based on what you actually wrote, I was not sure of your point.....
  
  
  
  I never said that an Accounting course was not a good thing to teach in high school. Reconciling a checkbook is another matter.

  I think basic money management (such as balancing a checkbook even though that's kind of outdated) is a worthwhile skill to teach in a Life Skills course or whatever.
• wkfan

  I Wear Pants;905815 wrote:I think basic money management (such as balancing a checkbook even though that's kind of outdated) is a worthwhile skill to teach in a Life Skills course or whatever.

  And if schools have the money to offer a 'Life Skills' class....I would agree even though I think this is the parents responsibility and not a school district responsibility.
  
  However, unless a district is operating with a huge surplus (i.e. plenty of money for technology, no pay-to-participate fees, etc), a class like this should be the first thing to be cut.
• I Wear Pants

  wkfan;905853 wrote:And if schools have the money to offer a 'Life Skills' class....I would agree even though I think this is the parents responsibility and not a school district responsibility.
  
  However, unless a district is operating with a huge surplus (i.e. plenty of money for technology, no pay-to-participate fees, etc), a class like this should be the first thing to be cut.

  Surprising that you call for classes like that to be cut before sports.
• wkfan

  I Wear Pants;905908 wrote:Surprising that you call for classes like that to be cut before sports.

  I'm sure you are. However, high school sports has more to offer to the general student population than a course on how to balance a checkbook, IMO.
• Paladin

  This is a joke thread. We already have some political hack saying the suburbs and small town schools are O.K., no problem ( but they have the same unions and thus should have the same problems). The reality is the poor schools tend to be those in POOR areas ( and as a distinction , unions had nothing to do with that). One parent families, low incomes, high crime rates, etc. See anything here that differs from suburbs ? Maybe you could close the poor city districts and merge them into suburban schools with $$$$$$$. And then some realities will show. Schools have become the political football of the Rs and conservatives who complain about everything and fix nothing. Yet find a way to get a profit even when evidence shows charter schools and for profit ed fare no better than the publics. Just look at the poor reports on the fraud by charter schools in Ohio.
• Con_Alma

  Money isn't the issue. Cleveland public schools spend more money per pupil than the surrounding suburbs do. Home culture and environment are the issue.
  
  Sending the inner city kids to a suburban school doesn't fix that. The schools don't need fixed. We are already trying to fix too many things by and through the school system.
• I Wear Pants

  wkfan;906478 wrote:I'm sure you are. However, high school sports has more to offer to the general student population than a course on how to balance a checkbook, IMO.

  How so and how are sports something you're fine with spending money on yet the classes mentioned should be done privately? Should sports not also be done separate from the main curriculum?
• Con_Alma

  I Wear Pants;912974 wrote:... Should sports not also be done separate from the main curriculum?

  I, personally, would love that and I think that eventually it will come to that. When you consider pay to participate isn't going away and continues to show signs of increasing in cost while club sports continue to grow and are preferred in some circles over scholastic sports I think we are seeing the very infant stages of community sports being put into place. Soccer and wrestling are two such examples.
• I Wear Pants

  Con_Alma;912979 wrote:I, personally, would love that and I think that eventually it will come to that. When you consider pay to participate isn't going away and continues to show signs of increasing in cost while club sports continue to grow and are preferred in some circles over scholastic sports I think we are seeing the very infant stages of community sports being put into place. Soccer and wrestling are two such examples.

  It makes sense I mean it's how Europe has been doing it for a long time. (And the "E" word instantly kills any support from conservatives)
• queencitybuckeye

  I Wear Pants;913203 wrote:It makes sense I mean it's how Europe has been doing it for a long time. (And the "E" word instantly kills any support from conservatives)

  Please don't lump us all together. I'm all for it.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  wkfan;905853 wrote:And if schools have the money to offer a 'Life Skills' class....I would agree even though I think this is the parents responsibility and not a school district responsibility.
  
  However, unless a district is operating with a huge surplus (i.e. plenty of money for technology, no pay-to-participate fees, etc), a class like this should be the first thing to be cut.

  
  What is the district's responsibility? It is more important IMO for young people to understand basic economic fundamentals such as interest rates, depreciation, and the like. It isn't just an important subject, it is an essential subject.
  
  If we are to reform the money-sucking dinosaur that is the U.S. public education system we need to do this:
  
  1) Introduce foreign languages at an early grade, French and/or German or Mandarin would be great, these are the languages of business internationally aside from English. Not every student has the capability of learning a foreign language, but the option should be available.
  
  2) Consolidate math and science in the intermediate grades into a half-day applied math/science curriculum. Continue through grade 12.
  
  3) Combine liberal arts into an appreciative Reading program. This includes traditional history courses. We waste hours upon hours re-learning the same crap over and over again. Every history book I had post grade 4 has some entry about the "X" uses that George Washington Carver invented for the peanut. Too American-centric and no one gives a $&*%.
  
  4) Dump writing altogether post grade 3. If kids can't write by then they never will.
  
  The amount of time spent on reading/writing and rote memorization is astounding in comparison to real world applications. If we are truly serious about educating our children rather than pushing more false jingoism on them then we need to radically change the system.
• FatHobbit

  

  Manhattan Buckeye;914018 wrote:4) Dump writing altogether post grade 3. If kids can't write by then they never will.
  
  The amount of time spent on reading/writing and rote memorization is astounding in comparison to real world applications. If we are truly serious about educating our children rather than pushing more false jingoism on them then we need to radically change the system.

  I'm going to have to disagree with that. I work with so many people who can't write a complete thought.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  Hence the applied Reading appreciation course that includes traditional liberal arts. Don't segregate the subjects.
• FatHobbit

  

  Manhattan Buckeye;914079 wrote:Hence the applied Reading appreciation course that includes traditional liberal arts. Don't segregate the subjects.

  Ah, I missed that. I do agree that we spend a lot of time on memorization of things we'll never use and I am not opposed to reorganizing education, but I get a lot of emails that leave me wondering wtf they are asking.
• iclfan2

  

  Manhattan - Great post. I would have liked to take a language earlier, and I'm tired of the bullshit spanish they basically make you take these days. I don't want to speak spanish! What schools really need is a life preparedness class. It is unbelievable to me that high school doesn't teach you budgets, basic taxation, how interest works, time value of money, etc. That is 100x more valuable than some stupid global studies or pointless other history class. Hell, writing a resume would be great, you wouldn't believe some of the terrible resumes I have seen, and keep it on one page! Also, I think literature and writing should be much more emphasized. No more of this boring let's read some stupid books and take a test on it crap. They should be taught how to write cohesively and organize thoughts in a well outlined essay. Even in college I got A's without trying due to an awesome teacher, who's class was very hard, but prepared me immensely for college. Some people still can't write a one page memo without it sounding retarded.
  
  I also don't think schools are "broken". I did just fine in a public school, in a town of 10,000 with about 150 kids per grade. The problem is, there is such terrible parenting at home in the inner cities that kids just don't care. You can't blame a school for having to deal with that garbage, nor can you expect a teacher to try harder with the 1 or 2 of the per class when they need to focus on the majority. I'm not sure it is even fixable, because you can't fix a terrible household.
• LJ

  

  iclfan2;918244 wrote:Manhattan - Great post. I would have liked to take a language earlier, and I'm tired of the bullshit spanish they basically make you take these days. I don't want to speak spanish!

  Nah, you don't need to speak one of the world's most spoken languages. That won't help you in life :thumbdown: