Archive

Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Bahrain and revolution in MENA

  • jhay78
    LJ;674182 wrote:"EGYPT IS FREE, EGYPT IS FREE"
    FatHobbit;674183 wrote:I hope so.

    If by "free", you mean the next government will be elected democratically, then yes Egypt is free.

    If by "free", you mean that Egyptian religious minorities (Coptic Christians, etc.) will enjoy even a fraction of the religious freedoms that minorities in the US enjoy, think again. Things weren't exactly peachy for Christians under Mubarak, but when 3/4's of Egyptians (in a 2007 study) favor the application of sharia law in every Muslim country, that doesn't sound to me like a "free" society:
    In 2007 polling by the University of Maryland and World Public Opinion, three-quarters of Egyptians said they favor a “strict” application of sharia law in every Muslim country (half said they “strongly” favored it, the other quarter favored it “somewhat”). And while two-thirds approved of “democracy,” three-quarters also said they want to “keep Western values out of Islamic countries” — i.e., their conception of “democracy” is very different from Western democracy (with features like establishment of Islam as the state religion, installation of sharia as a principal source of law, the invalidation of laws that are inconsistent with sharia, etc.). Moreover, fully 92 percent of Egyptians said that the U.S. was trying to weaken and divide the Islamic world. That’s probably why 82 percent of them wanted U.S. forces withdrawn from all Muslim countries.
    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/258717/mubarak-v-brotherhood/andrew-c-mccarthy
  • ptown_trojans_1
    jhay78;674283 wrote:If by "free", you mean the next government will be elected democratically, then yes Egypt is free.

    If by "free", you mean that Egyptian religious minorities (Coptic Christians, etc.) will enjoy even a fraction of the religious freedoms that minorities in the US enjoy, think again. Things weren't exactly peachy for Christians under Mubarak, but when 3/4's of Egyptians (in a 2007 study) favor the application of sharia law in every Muslim country, that doesn't sound to me like a "free" society:



    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/258717/mubarak-v-brotherhood/andrew-c-mccarthy

    We'll see.
    Egypt is a large country, the military is in control, and who knows what could happen.
    I could see an open society. Thing is, with democracy, it is up to the will of the people.
    If the people want Sharia law, then so be it.
  • LJ
    "Egypt is free" is what the protestors started chanting as soon as he stepped down, hence the quotation marks
  • ptown_trojans_1
    Also, keep this in mind, outside of Israel and Saudi Arabia maybe, the Egyptian military has the closest ties to the U.S. military in the region. The DoD and Egyptian military have had constant contact throughout the whole 18 days of protests, and SECDEF Gates spoke to the head of the military just a little bit ago.
    My point is, the military will not allow the Egyptian state to move away from that close relationship.
  • ptown_trojans_1
    Footwedge, apparently the Swiss have frozen his funds they have.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/11/us-swiss-mubarak-idUSTRE71A58R20110211
  • ptown_trojans_1
    Egyptian Military making statement right now on timeline for elections.

    Or not. He just said the Military Council will run the country and then in a nice gesture, saluted the martyrs, the people who lost their lives.
  • fish82
    ptown_trojans_1;674349 wrote:Egyptian Military making statement right now on timeline for elections.

    Or not. He just said the Military Council will run the country and then in a nice gesture, saluted the martyrs, the people who lost their lives.
    That's kinda where I was going with my earlier post. I haven't seen too many examples of a military eager to give up power once they have it for a few months. It's not hard to imagine them saying in August, "Well, things aren't quite stable enough for elections yet...we're gonna reschedule those for next spring..."
  • Gardens35
    Wonder what the dollar total is on our pay off to Mubarak.
  • fish82
    Can anyone offer a theory as to why James Clapper continues to draw a paycheck?
  • jhay78
    If it weren't coming from the Director of National Intelligence (one of the agencies aimed at protecting Americans), it would be hilarious:
    "The term 'Muslim Brotherhood' ... is an umbrella term for a variety of movements, in the case of Egypt, a very heterogeneous group, largely secular, which has eschewed violence and has decried Al Qaeda as a perversion of Islam," Clapper said.
    Yikes. Not the first time he's messed up:
    This isn't the first time Clapper has stumbled on the public stage.

    During a televised interview in December alongside other top security officials, Clapper was stumped when asked about a major set of terror arrests in Great Britain.

    The White House later acknowledged that Clapper had not yet been briefed about the sweep, while defending him as "the consummate DNI."
    I remember John Brennen coming to Clapper's defense after that one. Yikes again.
  • I Wear Pants
  • fish82
    ^^^^^ :cool:
  • ptown_trojans_1
    Order is slowly being restored by the military.
    Yesterday the military started to clear the square,with some people still there.
    Also, the military pledged their support to maintain the Israeli peace treaty, a welcome sign.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/12/AR2011021200888.html?hpid=topnews

    Also, Bibi supported the statement made by the Egyptians:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/12/AR2011021203570.html

    Today, the military dissolved Parliament and the cabinet, and suspended the Constitution. They also established a timeline for military rule, six months or until the elections take place.
    Welcome signs for sure, but we'll see what occurs over the next few weeks/ months.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/13/AR2011021300396.html?hpid=topnews
  • ptown_trojans_1
    Protests continue to advance, this time in Algeria, a country known for instability.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/12/AR2011021203681.html
  • QuakerOats
    Wait a minute, I thought obama was a foreign policy guru who would achieve greatness on the world stage. I thought the ending of the Bush era would solve all the world's problems and allow America to regain status and everybody would love us.

    What the hell's gone wrong with that mantra?
  • ptown_trojans_1
    QuakerOats;679350 wrote:Wait a minute, I thought obama was a foreign policy guru who would achieve greatness on the world stage. I thought the ending of the Bush era would solve all the world's problems and allow America to regain status and everybody would love us.

    What the hell's gone wrong with that mantra?

    Bahaha. No one who seriously was in the foreign policy circles thought that.
  • QuakerOats
    obma is making W look like Winston
  • CenterBHSFan
    ptown_trojans_1;679375 wrote:Bahaha. No one who seriously was in the foreign policy circles thought that.
    Yeah, but I thought alot of "moderates" voted for Obama/Biden because of the connections of foreign policy knowledge?
  • dwccrew
    QuakerOats;679350 wrote:Wait a minute, I thought obama was a foreign policy guru who would achieve greatness on the world stage. I thought the ending of the Bush era would solve all the world's problems and allow America to regain status and everybody would love us.

    What the hell's gone wrong with that mantra?
    QuakerOats;679497 wrote:obma is making W look like Winston
    Not really, if W was president right now he would have already sent troops into Egypt to protect Mubarak. I like the non-interventionalist role. Let all of those countries sort their own problems out, we have our own to deal with. Let me ask this, what would you have Obama do? No matter what he does in this situation, you would be critizing him I guarantee it. I am not a fan of Obama, but for fuck's sake give it a rest.
  • I Wear Pants
    CenterBHSFan;679795 wrote:Yeah, but I thought alot of "moderates" voted for Obama/Biden because of the connections of foreign policy knowledge?
    They voted for him because they didn't think Mccain was the better option. Get over it.
  • CenterBHSFan
    ptown_trojans_1;679375 wrote:Bahaha. No one who seriously was in the foreign policy circles thought that.
    I Wear Pants;679808 wrote:They voted for him because they didn't think Mccain was the better option. Get over it.

    What am I supposed to "get over", Pants? That alot of people specifically said that they supported/voted for Obama due to the connections and knowledge of foreign policy and that Ptown said that "no one who seriously was in the foreign policy circles thought that" ?
    I asked that because it seems that one previous sentiment is clashing with a newer sentiment, or people have simply changed their minds over a short period of time.

    I voted for McCain, but I've been "over" that for 2 years now. What am I supposed to "get over" at this point in time?
    Or are you just being a dick?
  • I Wear Pants
    :)
  • CenterBHSFan
    I Wear Pants;679820 wrote::)
    I knew it!!!!

    DICK!!! :p
  • FatHobbit
    CenterBHSFan;679795 wrote:Yeah, but I thought alot of "moderates" voted for Obama/Biden because of the connections of foreign policy knowledge?

    I thought they voted for him because they wanted hope and change?
  • CenterBHSFan
    FatHobbit;680486 wrote:I thought they voted for him because they wanted hope and change?
    Alot did, I'm sure of it.

    Just like people who vote for them because they weren't Bush, Obama is black, wanting more entitlements, etc.

    Lots of reasons. BTW, I didn't say all or most, I just said alot which could mean any variety of percentages.