Obama: A pragmatic moderate faces the 'socialist' smear

• BCSbunk

  Writerbuckeye wrote: Thanks for proving my point (that your're blind).
  
  I am about as removed from being "an extreme right winger" as most on here -- yet you lump me in that classification.
  
  And if you're looking at things from a libertarian viewpoint, I can see where Obama would be considered authoritarian on such a graph -- but I think he skews a little more left than he's been allowed to be so far because of the constraints of American politics at this time.

  I am not blind nor am I bias to the right. I do not and will not claim a right winger like Obama as my type of politician.
  
  He is right wing just not as right wing as you.
  
  I am left wing and he certainly has little in common with me and my view on politics.
  
  The political compass has it correct Obama is not left of center.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  The political compass is skewed by the bias inherent in who created it.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Some of these posts are hilarious!
• BCSbunk

  Writerbuckeye wrote: The political compass is skewed by the bias inherent in who created it.

  I would like to see a more accurate model.
  
  Of course you offer nothing except to repeat the mantras of the right Rush and Beck and Fox news. The extreme RIGHT WING.
  
  Do you consider yourself a tea party member? Serious question.
• I Wear Pants

  Writerbuckeye wrote: The political compass is actually pretty accurate.

  Fixed.
• Footwedge

  Bob Barr and Chuck Baldwin are authoritarian? Hillarious. The chart listed is utter baloney.
• Footwedge

  BCSbunk wrote: A graph of left and right wing politicians.
  
  
  
  Ralph Nader is LEFT WING
  
  Dennis Kucinich is LEFT WING
  
  Obama is RIGHT WING.
  
  I am LEFT WING I do not and will not claim his authoritarian RIGHT WING NONSENSE as anything that I stand for.

  Both Baldwin and Barr are libertarians pretty much across the board. If Ron Paul ever saw this graph, he would laugh his ass off.
• fish82

  

  BCSbunk wrote:

  fish82 wrote:

  BCSbunk wrote:

  believer wrote:

  BCSbunk wrote:Only xenophobes who think that every country but the US is socialist or communist are so deluded to think Obama is socialist or really even liberal.

  Only America-hating domestic ultra-liberals who pine for European-style socialism are delusional enough to think Obama isn't socialist or at least highly liberal.

  What policies has Obama put into place that are European style?
  
  Healthcare? Are you kidding there is not even a public option so that loses.
  
  The facts are clear he has not implemented European style anything therefore he is not liberal.
  
  As you post just shows you think the rest of the world is socialist how utterly laughable.
  
  Socialism means state owned not private owned and most of Europe has privately run companies not state owned.
  
  http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_s4XiZIUYnIs/R6icBx00N5I/AAAAAAAAAEY/EVFUjmIwYzg/s1600-h/the_world_according_to_americans.jpg

  GM...means of production owned and run by the government. Class dismissed.

  Swing and a Miss..
  
  Not completely state owned and Socialism mean s NO PRIVATE business either the state or the workers own it.
  
  We are not socialist in this country and Obama is certainly not socialist and not even left of center politics.
  
  Extreme right wingers are hiliarious.
  
  Anything left of them is liberal. What a myopic view of the country and the world.

  I guess you missed the little winky guy at the end. I wonder what that means when someone does that? Cool rant, tho.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  No, I am not a Tea Party member -- and I've never listened to Rush or any of those clowns.
  
  And I don't have to show something else simply because I know that graph is wrong. If it looks and smells like shit -- it's probably shit. And that sucker smells.
  
  Whoever created it has included some of his (their) own biases in the formula.
• BCSbunk

  Footwedge wrote:

  BCSbunk wrote: A graph of left and right wing politicians.
  
  
  
  Ralph Nader is LEFT WING
  
  Dennis Kucinich is LEFT WING
  
  Obama is RIGHT WING.
  
  I am LEFT WING I do not and will not claim his authoritarian RIGHT WING NONSENSE as anything that I stand for.

  Both Baldwin and Barr are libertarians pretty much across the board. If Ron Paul ever saw this graph, he would laugh his ass off.

  The Constitution party is not the libertarian party. The Constitution party is authoritarian in nature.
  
  Barr is also more authoritarian than your average Libertarian. I like Ron Paul I would not vote for Barr.
  
  Ron Paul is below the Authoritarian line and is right wing however below the authoritarian line is important IMO.
• bigmanbt

  fish82 wrote:

  BCSbunk wrote:

  believer wrote:

  BCSbunk wrote:Only xenophobes who think that every country but the US is socialist or communist are so deluded to think Obama is socialist or really even liberal.

  Only America-hating domestic ultra-liberals who pine for European-style socialism are delusional enough to think Obama isn't socialist or at least highly liberal.

  What policies has Obama put into place that are European style?
  
  Healthcare? Are you kidding there is not even a public option so that loses.
  
  The facts are clear he has not implemented European style anything therefore he is not liberal.
  
  As you post just shows you think the rest of the world is socialist how utterly laughable.
  
  Socialism means state owned not private owned and most of Europe has privately run companies not state owned.
  
  http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_s4XiZIUYnIs/R6icBx00N5I/AAAAAAAAAEY/EVFUjmIwYzg/s1600-h/the_world_according_to_americans.jpg

  GM...means of production owned and run by the government. Class dismissed.

  I understand what you are trying to do, but you got your terms mixed up. GM is privately owned, but state run. That's fascism, not socialism. Socialism is straight state owned and run. If companies are still privately owned, but state run then it's fascism.
• bigmanbt

  BCSbunk wrote: A graph of left and right wing politicians.
  
  
  
  Ralph Nader is LEFT WING
  
  Dennis Kucinich is LEFT WING
  
  Obama is RIGHT WING.
  
  I am LEFT WING I do not and will not claim his authoritarian RIGHT WING NONSENSE as anything that I stand for.

  The problem I see is that everyone we could have voted for last year was authoritarian. Nothing like the Big Government party. :rolleyes:
• Footwedge

  BCSbunk wrote:

  Footwedge wrote:

  BCSbunk wrote: A graph of left and right wing politicians.
  
  
  
  Ralph Nader is LEFT WING
  
  Dennis Kucinich is LEFT WING
  
  Obama is RIGHT WING.

  
  Both Baldwin and Barr are libertarians pretty much across the board. If Ron Paul ever saw this graph, he would laugh his ass off.

  The Constitution party is not the libertarian party. The Constitution party is authoritarian in nature.
  
  Barr is also more authoritarian than your average Libertarian. I like Ron Paul I would not vote for Barr.
  
  Ron Paul is below the Authoritarian line and is right wing however below the authoritarian line is important IMO.

  Nonsense. Bob Barr ran as a libertarian for God sake. Baldwin's party is extremely libertarian, only real difference is in believing that the country is Christian.
  
  After R. Paul dropped out of the presidential race, he strongly endorsed Chuck Baldwin for president....in that Baldwin most comprehensively mirrored his views.
  
  From wiki...
  
  "Barr joined the Libertarian Party in 2006,[9] and served on its National Committee.[10] He was the Libertarian Party nominee for President of the United States in the 2008 election.[11] "
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Barr
  
  How can someone run for president as a libertarian, and be graphed as an authoritarian?
  
  I agree that Obama is not as liberal now that he is the president, versus his voting record in the House. But he is still left leaning.
  
  But the graph you posted is absolute BS.
• BoatShoes

  believer wrote: For decades our public education system, media, entertainment industry, labor unions, etc. have indoctrinated us on the notion that Big Government is the answer to all our social issues. Fortunately more and more Americans are realizing that Big Government is a Big Part of the Big Problem.

  I mean but is this really when we boil it down, the common experience? I went to Public School and have no recollection of being told to suck on the gubment cheese...I watched Peter Jennings an ABC news every night while eating dinner before Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy would come on and I don't really remember him convincing me to roll on my back and let Uncle Sam rub my belly.
  
  And as to the larger point...were Gerald Ford, Richard Nixon, Bob Dole not real conservatives? was Justice Stevens a dirty commie pinko all along and living in a fantasy world if he thinks he's conservative?
  
  here's a couple of sites comparing the democrats' health plan with previous proposals by Republicans;
  
  A comparison to the 1993 Senate Republican's Health Care Proposal
  A link to an article discussion the similarities between ObamaCare and Richard Nixon's ideas as well as the proposals endorsed by the likes of Bob Dole and Tom Daschel
  
  And the ObamaCare is essentially equivalent to what Mitt Romney signed.
  
  Are these conservatives just phonies? Are they not real conservatives? Are they merely RINOS?
• Bigdogg

  BoatShoes wrote:

  believer wrote: For decades our public education system, media, entertainment industry, labor unions, etc. have indoctrinated us on the notion that Big Government is the answer to all our social issues. Fortunately more and more Americans are realizing that Big Government is a Big Part of the Big Problem.

  I mean but is this really when we boil it down, the common experience? I went to Public School and have no recollection of being told to suck on the gubment cheese...I watched Peter Jennings an ABC news every night while eating dinner before Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy would come on and I don't really remember him convincing me to roll on my back and let Uncle Sam rub my belly.
  
  And as to the larger point...were Gerald Ford, Richard Nixon, Bob Dole not real conservatives? was Justice Stevens a dirty commie pinko all along and living in a fantasy world if he thinks he's conservative?
  
  here's a couple of sites comparing the democrats' health plan with previous proposals by Republicans;
  
  A comparison to the 1993 Senate Republican's Health Care Proposal
  A link to an article discussion the similarities between ObamaCare and Richard Nixon's ideas as well as the proposals endorsed by the likes of Bob Dole and Tom Daschel
  
  And the ObamaCare is essentially equivalent to what Mitt Romney signed.
  
  Are these conservatives just phonies? Are they not real conservatives? Are they merely RINOS?

  There you go citing facts again. This is not permitted here.
• I Wear Pants

  Footwedge wrote:

  BCSbunk wrote:

  Footwedge wrote:

  BCSbunk wrote: A graph of left and right wing politicians.
  
  
  
  Ralph Nader is LEFT WING
  
  Dennis Kucinich is LEFT WING
  
  Obama is RIGHT WING.

  
  Both Baldwin and Barr are libertarians pretty much across the board. If Ron Paul ever saw this graph, he would laugh his ass off.

  The Constitution party is not the libertarian party. The Constitution party is authoritarian in nature.
  
  Barr is also more authoritarian than your average Libertarian. I like Ron Paul I would not vote for Barr.
  
  Ron Paul is below the Authoritarian line and is right wing however below the authoritarian line is important IMO.

  Nonsense. Bob Barr ran as a libertarian for God sake. Baldwin's party is extremely libertarian, only real difference is in believing that the country is Christian.
  
  After R. Paul dropped out of the presidential race, he strongly endorsed Chuck Baldwin for president....in that Baldwin most comprehensively mirrored his views.
  
  From wiki...
  
  "Barr joined the Libertarian Party in 2006,[9] and served on its National Committee.[10] He was the Libertarian Party nominee for President of the United States in the 2008 election.[11] "
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Barr
  
  How can someone run for president as a libertarian, and be graphed as an authoritarian?
  
  I agree that Obama is not as liberal now that he is the president, versus his voting record in the House. But he is still left leaning.
  
  But the graph you posted is absolute BS.

  The graph thing probably doesn't use American definitions of Liberal, Authoritarian, etc because ours aren't correct. Even most of the left in America is on the right side or at center.
  
  Our country is naturally skewed to the right, that means anytime someone actually is from the left they look like a crazy extremist.
  
  Just because a dude runs under a certain party doesn't automatically make his views equal to that party.
  
  Mitt Romney is a Republican but he instituted a universal health insurance plan in his state. Does that mean that Republicans are for that? No.
• Footwedge

  ^^^^ Ron Paul, Bob Barr, and Chuck Baldwin are anti authoritarian by any standards....American or otherwise. They are definitely to the far right...but their names should all be wayyyy down towards the bottom of the graf.
• BoatShoes

  That graph counts being "authoritarian" in the social realm...Chuck Baldwin is considered authoritarian on that graph because he's pro-life, anti-gay rights and believes America should be a Christian nation
• Footwedge

  BoatShoes wrote: That graph counts being "authoritarian" in the social realm...Chuck Baldwin is considered authoritarian on that graph because he's pro-life, anti-gay rights and believes America should be a Christian nation

  I strongly disagree. These issues are not authoritarian in nature, but conservative in nature. But I will concede that this is up for debate.
  
  But when a graf puts the libertarian candidate for president (Barr) as being an authoritarian, it blows any and all credibility out of the water.
  
  It's akin to calling the pope an atheist.
• BoatShoes

  Footwedge wrote: I strongly disagree. These issues are not authoritarian in nature, but conservative in nature. But I will concede that this is up for debate.
  
  But when a graf puts the libertarian candidate for president (Barr) as being an authoritarian, it blows any and all credibility out of the water.
  
  It's akin to calling the pope an atheist.

  Perhaps the graph considered Barr's old views toward drug policy and I believe he's pro-life right? Didn't he also once suggest that the U.S. military should ban Wicca? And, I understand that he used to be against gay marriage but has since recanted? He also originally voted for the Patriot Act.
  
  Some authoritative positions according to the graph's qualifications although he seems to have repudiated many of those positions.
• I Wear Pants

  Yeah, it might be different now seeing as that graph was at least two years old.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  LOL @ using Mitt Romney's healthcare for a reference
• I Wear Pants

  CenterBHSFan wrote: LOL @ using Mitt Romney's healthcare for a reference

  It isn't a good example of things that politicians do that don't necessarily line up with the parties views?
• CenterBHSFan

  

  No that wasn't what I was thinking of, Pants.
  
  I was thinking "how did that Romney healthcare turn out?"
  
  I should have been much more clear about that!
  
  But you're right, it is a good example.
• I Wear Pants

  Oh ok. I wasn't trying to extol the virtues of either plan. I just thought it was a good example at the time.