All-Metro selection

• 2XCHAMP

  I recently attended the Central Ohio All-Metro selection process, which was established to provide recognition and honor to the central district wrestlers who had posted outstanding performances during the season, through district competition. I sat and witnessed as some wrestlers were selected over others not based on established criteria, or on comparable statistics, but rather on a coaches vote. For instance at #112 Wilson (Desales) received 2nd team selection and did not even compete in the sectionals or district, while Timchenko of Orange, whom was runner-up in DI was not even selected to honorable mention, and the wrestler who placed 3rd behind him was selected to 3rd team. I know Wilson was injured thus could not compete but he should not have been selected based on the probability of his accomplishments had he not been injured. Just imagine how that would have played out for Strope, who was District champ last year. Had he been hurt he probably would have been selected just as Wilson was, but wasn't based on actual performance. There were others but I see my thread is getting long but am interested in your thoughts on this process. I understand that a coaches vote may be necessary at times, specifically when all current season statistics are equal and head-to-head competition did not occur, but believe that a criteria should be exhausted prior to the voting. Your thoughts and opinions please.
• hizzmuther

  Really... where's the list??? Although you've seen it, I'm pretty sure that most of the rest of us haven't. Can't get mad 'til we've got something to be mad about.
• 2XCHAMP

  hizzmuther wrote: Really... where's the list??? Although you've seen it, I'm pretty sure that most of the rest of us haven't. Can't get mad 'til we've got something to be mad about.

  The selection process just occurred today so the list will probably be published within he next few days but not really focused on the list as much as the selection process. Should it be based on established criteria or on who the coaches want. Remember it for the athletes.
• huntergreen

  Wilson beat Timchenko twice! I know he did not compete in the postseason, but should be punished for that?
• USMCdevil05

  

  I think they come out in the dispatch on firday. Hizzmuther, why don't you see if you can't get ahold of your buddy at the dispatch and see if you can get the inside scoop! HINT HINT WINK WINK! lol
• Shankapotamus

  huntergreen wrote: Wilson beat Timchenko twice! I know he did not compete in the postseason, but should be punished for that?

  Hard to consider Wilson if he didn't compete in the post season, but then again he also beat McHugh. Looks to me like McHugh probably got screwed more than anybody. I would put McHugh ahead of Timchenko.
• 2XCHAMP

  huntergreen wrote: Wilson beat Timchenko twice! I know he did not compete in the postseason, but should be punished for that?

  No, should not be punished for being injured but shouldn't be put on All-Metro team without having any post-season accomplishments. Who's to say for sure he would have qualified? There should be established criteria before coaches voting. Your not an All-American if you don't place in the top 8 of the NCAA tournament despite whether you would have if you had not been hurt and competed. No hardship caeses there.
• USMCdevil05

  

  2XCHAMP, That is very true! Good post.
• 2XCHAMP

  Shankapotamus wrote:

  huntergreen wrote: Wilson beat Timchenko twice! I know he did not compete in the postseason, but should be punished for that?

  Hard to consider Wilson if he didn't compete in the post season, but then again he also beat McHugh. Looks to me like McHugh probably got screwed more than anybody. I would put McHugh ahead of Timchenko.

  Put McHugh D2 3rd above Timchenko D1 2nd based on what criteria? Probability? McHugh place higher in the North Canton tourny but McHugh and Timchenko both lost to the same guy by the exact same score. Different sides of the bracket.
• Cradleman

  I too agree that there is too much emphasis placed on who beat whom, common opponents, etc., from action during the regular season. This process can and did lead to a district champion being placed lower on the All-Metro team, than a 3rd or 4th placer.
  
  All districts, Divsion, I, II, and III consist of 45-50 teams. If a young man wins a district title and we (coaches) are charged with choosing the top wrestlers than we should look first at those who got it done, the kids who won district titles, regardless of regular season results. In my opinion, a district runnerup, third, or fourth placer should not be on the board until all champions are placed.
  
  Sometimes you see a kid rise up from a number of regular season losses to win a district title. I say, good for him. Reward him for his accomplishment, and do not say to him, well thats good, but we beat you in the sectional, or this tournament or that. I hope the coaches association will take a look at this.
• huntergreen

  I guess we can agree to disagree, but that argument makes no sense. A kid not getting All Metro does not affect his chances of placing at the state meet (compared to being an AA).
  
  District placement is a big indicator, but head to head has to trump that every time. Awards like All Metro are to award wrestlers for a SEASON of work, not just the end of the year tourneys. Wilson, by the slimmest of margins, had a slightly better body of work throughout the season before his injury.
  
  BUT, all arguments aside, these are two phenomenal freshmen who have great careers ahead of them. Good luck this week Artem!
• monarchpride

  I have the list, am I a supposed to keep it secret until the Dispatch publishes it?????
• knightflyer150

  huntergreen wrote: Awards like All Metro are to award wrestlers for a SEASON of work, not just the end of the year tourneys.

  OK, well that needs to be established then as what All-Metro is. No one knows. I can tell you from experience that it is very blurred and very, very, very political. I find it hard to believe that a freshmen district runner-up with 37 wins and a tough tournament schedule can't find his way into the top four in Central Ohio. It's all good, though, because I can guarantee you that Timchenko spends absolutely no time worrying about it.
  
  If it is body of work, then Lee Jr. should be 2nd team. He is a stud, and after talking to him a bit this weekend, he is good kid with high goals. He handled this injury as well as any competitive person could be expected to. If it is post-season + season then the results shoudl be different. McDougle, although also very good, finished lower than Timchenko at the exact same weight and the same district. That makes no sense to me.
  
  At the end of the day, it is disappointing b/c of the lack of clarity, but it doesn't matter one rip for state. The good news for Central Ohio wrestling is that four of these 112s, Wilson, McDougle, McHugh and Timchenko are ALL FRESHMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Spread em out....build em up and let the fireworks begin until 2013.
• Cradleman

  Monarch, I would suggest you run that question by the Distpatch.
• Cradleman

  Knightflyer,
  You are correct, it is blurred and political, and it shouldn't be. Much of this could be remedied if the coaches association would develop a criteria for selection, and rules for dealing with wrestles who do not participate in the post-season, for whatever reason.
• ontheline

  

  Although I would like to see the list....I think it would be more special for those recognized to see the public release in the dispatch with the photo and write up vs. reading it on line and being old news by Friday. Just my opinion. Also, It would let the coach have the honor of telling their wrestler(s).
• Dirtyscramble

  

  I WANNA SEE
• Shankapotamus

  2XCHAMP wrote:

  Shankapotamus wrote:

  huntergreen wrote: Wilson beat Timchenko twice! I know he did not compete in the postseason, but should be punished for that?

  Hard to consider Wilson if he didn't compete in the post season, but then again he also beat McHugh. Looks to me like McHugh probably got screwed more than anybody. I would put McHugh ahead of Timchenko.

  Put McHugh D2 3rd above Timchenko D1 2nd based on what criteria? Probability? McHugh place higher in the North Canton tourny but McHugh and Timchenko both lost to the same guy by the exact same score. Different sides of the bracket.

  Based on the criteria that each had one lose in their respective district tournament and in my opinion Claymont 112 was deeper and tougher than Hilliards. Just my opinion.
• 2XCHAMP

  knightflyer150 wrote:

  huntergreen wrote: Awards like All Metro are to award wrestlers for a SEASON of work, not just the end of the year tourneys.

  OK, well that needs to be established then as what All-Metro is. No one knows. I can tell you from experience that it is very blurred and very, very, very political. I find it hard to believe that a freshmen district runner-up with 37 wins and a tough tournament schedule can't find his way into the top four in Central Ohio. It's all good, though, because I can guarantee you that Timchenko spends absolutely no time worrying about it.
  
  If it is body of work, then Lee Jr. should be 2nd team. He is a stud, and after talking to him a bit this weekend, he is good kid with high goals. He handled this injury as well as any competitive person could be expected to. If it is post-season + season then the results shoudl be different. McDougle, although also very good, finished lower than Timchenko at the exact same weight and the same district. That makes no sense to me.
  
  At the end of the day, it is disappointing b/c of the lack of clarity, but it doesn't matter one rip for state. The good news for Central Ohio wrestling is that four of these 112s, Wilson, McDougle, McHugh and Timchenko are ALL FRESHMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Spread em out....build em up and let the fireworks begin until 2013.

  I agree, lets get some clarity on the criteria for the selection process and stick with it. I'm not sure why this All-Metro Team isn't selected after the state tournament anyways so that all season competition is included and considered.
• pickpanther

  I do not see a a lot of difference between finishing second or third. Timchenko and McDougle both lost to the same person. I agree that Timchenko is tough and had a great district tournmant. I am amazed that he did not make it on the list. To say Timchenko deserves it more than McDougle because of his place is rewarding him for having a luckier draw. That is why we other factirs have to be consider and the only way to handle it is a coaches votes. I agree it gets political at times and it is not a perfect system, but I see no other way to account for injuries as well as other factors.
  
  I agree that district placement should play a major role but I feel the whole purpose is to select the best wrestlers. I will usually agree that a district champ should get it over a lower placer, but not always. If the three best people happen to be in the same division, they should be 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.
• hang_loose

  monarchpride wrote: I have the list, am I a supposed to keep it secret until the Dispatch publishes it?????

  monarchpride, If nobody told you not to, bring it on. The Dispatch rarely gives central Ohio wrestling any publicity.
  
  I bet they wouldn't even notice.
• 2XCHAMP

  ontheline wrote: Although I would like to see the list....I think it would be more special for those recognized to see the public release in the dispatch with the photo and write up vs. reading it on line and being old news by Friday. Just my opinion. Also, It would let the coach have the honor of telling their wrestler(s).

  
  On the other hand it would be a coach's obligation to let his wrestler know ahead of time that he did not make the All-Metro Team even though he placed higher in the districts than three other central Ohio wrestlers who did make it before seeing it in the newspaper on Sunday morning.
• cruiser_96

  

  monarchpride: I'm with ontheline on this one. It is their story to run...let them run it. Just my opinion here.
  
  Although I'm sure this analogy is off, I'll still give it. If I asked my buddy what his thoughts were on some possibilities to purpose to my girlfriend, and he threw out some good ones; one I might want to use. And then he called her and told her what the deal was, I'd be a little upset.
  
  If I were the coach of one of these guys, I wouldn't tell them about this meeting until I had to. Obviously the picture must be taken, but that would be a better time to say anything.
• bigdogdad

  Why not muddy the water some more and have selections based on divisions? Who's to say for example the xxx# in D1 with a 23-9 record is any worse than the xxx# in D3 that is 34-1. Maybe the D1 kid wrestled a killer schedule i.e. Top Gun, Medina, etc. while the D3 kid wrestled a bunch of bums. If you want flip the scenario and you have the same argument. No matter what you agree the rules may be you are always going to have disagreements. It does not matter what sport, if it's all league, district, state, it is the same b.s. based on somebody's opinion. And we know what they say about opinions.
• lowsingle174

  I really hate the fact that this selection is before the state tourny. We should let the state take place and then make selections.
  Good luck to everyone and good health.