140 = 144, etc.... Really OHSAA? Really?

• GoldenBear

  I disagree with this strongly. Scratch + 4 --based on snow several days prior to competition is silly to me and counter-productive.
  
  On another thread, it was posted
  "Because kids aren't allowed to practice, it makes it hard to maintain weight, wrestling is a unique sport when it comes to things like this."
  
  not as unique as one might think: Crew/rowing, Gymnastics, Ice Skating, MMA, Horseback riding / racing, Boxing, and Weightlifting all have either weight classes or weight cutting as a significant component of the sport. Wrestling is simply the primary whipping-boy for the public image on weight-loss.
  
  Scratch + 4 is a new/different weight-class and discourages kids from maintaining by rewarding those who are bouncing.
  
  Don't get me wrong--I was a notorious cutter...often wrestling finals of 152 at about 164, but I never missed weight and if I paid the price early in a tourney, I paid the price...not the kids that kept a healthy weight throughout the week. Under this additional weight allowance, the kids who are wrestling at their 'correct' weight are the very ones that are punished. A bad move by OHSAA, in my opinion, and one that promotes kids opting for the more severe cut. Just what our sport's public image needs.
• bigdogdad

  I totally agree with you and every argument you have made and I made my point on the AC thread. Now with that said, how many coaches are going to let their wrestlers take advantage of this asinine allowance? As many have pointed out, the serious wrestler is not going to need the extra weight. But, I'm sure there will be those coaches that allow it this week then complain when their kid doesn't make weight next week. How is this extra weight going to impact those of smaller stature? Going six minutes with a bag of potatoes in your singlet will be interesting. Way to stick to your ethics and standards OHSAA and lead by example. Why not shorten the periods while your at it and wrestle 1:30?
• falcon81

  

  GoldenBear wrote: I disagree with this strongly. Scratch + 4 --based on snow several days prior to competition is silly to me and counter-productive.
  
  On another thread, it was posted
  "Because kids aren't allowed to practice, it makes it hard to maintain weight, wrestling is a unique sport when it comes to things like this."
  
  not as unique as one might think: Crew/rowing, Gymnastics, Ice Skating, MMA, Horseback riding / racing, Boxing, and Weightlifting all have either weight classes or weight cutting as a significant component of the sport. Wrestling is simply the primary whipping-boy for the public image on weight-loss.
  
  Scratch + 4 is a new/different weight-class and discourages kids from maintaining by rewarding those who are bouncing.
  
  Don't get me wrong--I was a notorious cutter...often wrestling finals of 152 at about 164, but I never missed weight and if I paid the price early in a tourney, I paid the price...not the kids that kept a healthy weight throughout the week. Under this additional weight allowance, the kids who are wrestling at their 'correct' weight are the very ones that are punished. A bad move by OHSAA, in my opinion, and one that promotes kids opting for the more severe cut. Just what our sport's public image needs.

  I totally agree. Just because school is out does not mean a kid can't run and eat healthy. Adding pounds helps the lazy and undisciplined and hurts the dedicated kids. If your to lazy to eat and work out on your own come sectional time you need to get knocked out of the tournament early anyways..
• Con_Alma

  What it means is that kids who need the plus four are not maintaining their weight but are bouncing. I know this is common practice in our sport but anything that can be done to keep it from happening is a good thing.
  
  Going scratch plus four does the opposite.
• 1_beast

  

  So.....is this for THIS week only??? Or does this carry on throught the tournament trail?
• Cthelites

  Have there ever been any discussion about weighing in matside?
  That would control most of the severe weight cutting.
• legman1

  Goldenbear is 10000% correct. According to ALPHA rules, a wrestler may only lose 1.5% of his body weigth per week so why is the OHSAA allowing wrestlers to weigh-in 2 lbs. over their district weight class.
  
  The OHSAA does what is best for the athletes. That I agree with, but this allowance goes against what the ALPHA testing was put in place for.
  
  If the OHSAA wants to give 2 pounds, then don't take it away 6 days after sectionals !!!
  
  I'm a coach, of course i'm here to help kids. Does this help them when each year we prepare mentally and physically for the ALPHA testing and now the OHSAA decides to break those very rules that we must live by all year long.
  
  Alpha testing = maintaing your weight, not given 2 pounds this week and have 2 pounds taken away 6 days later.
  
  My other concern is why does the OHSAA make these type of decisions without consulting the people it affects?
  
  Who was consulted before this decision was made? Not me. No one consulted me before the ALPHA testing came in either so I guess those not directly affected get to make the rules, and change them as we go.
• TigerRaider

  I totally agree. Just because school is out does not mean a kid can't run and eat healthy. Adding pounds helps the lazy and undisciplined and hurts the dedicated kids. If your to lazy to eat and work out on your own come sectional time you need to get knocked out of the tournament early anyways..
  [/quote]
  
  What part of Ohio do you live in? If it is central then you must be in one of the upper class suburbs that actually get their streets plowed! This would be broken ankle city if the kids tried to run on our streets. Not to mention how dangerous it is with all these wonderful Columbus drivers! How would you feel if some poor kid got killed trying to run in this stuff. It is 4 pounds, I believe most of the tournaments were already giving 2 in Feb. so big deal. The more dedicated kids are going to win anyway! You guys really need to get over yourselves, it's only wrestling! Its not like it is football! Let the KIDS enjoy their snow days! I'm sure you did when you were a kid, but you probably can't remember that far back!( when you were ALMOST state champ!) OSHAA may have actually got one right, but I do think they should get the weight for the next 3 weeks also. And it probably needs to be the whole state, if it is not.
• Dad4Sports

  [/quote]
  
  OSHAA may have actually got one right, but I do think they should get the weight for the next 3 weeks also. And it probably needs to be the whole state, if it is not.
  [/quote]
  
  So let's re-write the weight classes for the entire state tourney because a couple of days of school were missed? Give me a break.....you'll have a whole week of practice to get rid of the additional 2 lbs. It's bad enough 2 were added this weekend....let's not compound that mistake and turn it into a total screw-up much worse.
• GoldenBear

  TigerRaider,
  
  At least as to the initial point and those of the majority on this thread -- your post is off base. However, I'll take the hook:
  
  The short – this move by OHSAA promotes attitudes and actions contrary to the movement away from cutting weight; considered to be a major health and public image concern facing our sport.
  
  The long—
  "it is 4 lbs"...right and the difference between many of the weight classes is 5. Therefore, many weight-classes have bumped up almost an entire weight-class. (now stay on the logic train with me) So, if OHSAA is promoting the Alpha test to encourage kids to find a healthy competitive minimum weight-class; it is counterproductive to reward those who did not do so over those who did.
  
  “most of the tournaments were already giving 2 in Feb. so big deal”….using deductive reasoning and the science of Math-- as legman1 discussed, the Alpha testing dictates that 1.5% is the max amount of acceptable weight loss/week. Which means that for kids 130 and below (6 weight classes) the difference between this “big deal” and the weight they’ll need to be on Friday exceeds what is even considered “safe”. (2 / .015 = 133.3333).
  
  “the more dedicated kids is going to win anyway”…probably right, since he/she has put in the time and effort. Let’s hope that proves true.
  
  “You guys really need to get over yourselves”… This comment (and its subsequent train of thought) has no relation to or bearing on the issue at hand and gets thrown out there like a 5yr old saying “oh yeah!? Well… my dad can beat up your dad!!”
  
  I’m not saying there aren’t some valid concerns and reasons to administer the extra 2 lbs. The powers that be do a lot of good and usually try to do what they feel is in the best interest of the kids. I’ll happily hear-out well thought reasoning and opposing viewpoints. What I am saying is that I feel the cons far outweigh the pros (by at least 2lbs) and the OHSAA has made an error; particularly in light of the recent shift away from weight cutting.
• Dad4Sports

  Another scenario.....how would you like to be a wrestler who has to make scratch at sectionals.....you already were prepared to be at a 2lb. disadvantage, now you are looking at a 4 lb. difference.
  
  215 vs 219, not a concern....112 vs 116 pretty big deal
• ontheline

  

  Hmmmmmm, three years ago, under similar circumstances, (massive snow storm the same week of sectionals) I was whole heartedly against the +2 lbs. Shouldn't be cutting so much anyway!
  
  Now, three years later, I'm sort of in favor. After years of watching many wrestler's work their tail off, my son included, to make and maintain weight week after week, just to have the forces of nature or Acts of God work against them before the "main event", I have softened my position. (yes, long sentence)
  
  At least now I am trying to see both sides of the arguement.
  
  Hitting the treadmill for an hour vs. going live for two-and-a-half hours are two completely differnt levels of conditioning!
• TigerRaider

  I really don't care what OSHAA is promoting with the Alpha test! That like most things with OSHAA is crap! The storms WERE ACTs of GOD! You can't even get insurance to cover that in most states. There were kids that did not have the opportunity to get out and lose weight. Some had to be home to watch their younger siblings or it was to dangerous to run. Why should these kids not get to wrestle. I think OSHAA did get it right for once! Besides its four lbs, just four lbs! I have seen 119s beat 140s, 21 pounds. I have seen great 140's beat good 171's, 30 pounds but the better wrestler won!
  
  “You guys really need to get over yourselves”… This comment (and its subsequent train of thought) has no relation to or bearing on the issue at hand and gets thrown out there like a 5yr old saying “oh yeah!? Well… my dad can beat up your dad!!”
  Well I sure he could and it does! I'm sure the kids aren't sitting around whinning like a bunch of old women "Oh man I guess I'm going to have to eat with my family so I can add a couple pounds. I'm glad everyone's lives are so perfect that the only thing you have to complain about is OHSAA actually doing something right. Let the kids eat! If you want to change the image of the sport maybe the parents and coaches should stop pushing the kids to lose weight. Have them wrestle their natural weight. Lets build the bodies and make them stronger. They have the whole rest of their lives to diet. Bottom line it's a good thing, so let it go. IF a kid would have died trying to run in this crap would it have really been worth a couple pounds???? If you want some things to whine about come over to the dump I call a house! I'll give you as much as you can handle.
• TigerRaider

  Thank you ontheline! It is only fair!
• Cthelites

  TigerRaider wrote: I'm glad everyone's lives are so perfect that the only thing you have to complain about is OHSAA actually doing something right. Let the kids eat! If you want to change the image of the sport maybe the parents and coaches should stop pushing the kids to lose weight. Have them wrestle their natural weight. Lets build the bodies and make them stronger. They have the whole rest of their lives to diet. Bottom line it's a good thing, so let it go. IF a kid would have died trying to run in this crap would it have really been worth a couple pounds???? If you want some things to whine about come over to the dump I call a house! I'll give you as much as you can handle.

  You totally contradict yourself.
  If you want kids to eat and build the bodies and not cut, why reward the 2 lbs?
  Obviously if someone can't make the weight when missing one or two practices earlier in the week then perhaps they are CUTTING too much weight to begin with.
  Maybe next yr they will look closer at cutting so much weight.
• 1_beast

  

  TigerRaider..Im sorry you son didnt make the varsity basketball team. Im sorry he decided to wrestle against your wishes. Im sorry he is not disciplined enough to mantain his weight. Im sorry that each post you sound more ridiculous than the State giving 2lbs. Im sorry you live in a dump. Im sorry that your son cannot shovel snow for a workout. Im sorry that your son cannot run in the snow. Im sorry other kids CAN run in the snow. Im sorry....
• dbluvsd1amonds

  

  TigerRaider wrote: You guys really need to get over yourselves, it's only wrestling! Its not like it is football!

  This is an odd statement... Are you saying that the conduct of OSHAA would be okay and the expectations of the wrestlers/coaches/fans shouldn't be high unless this was a discussion on football? You might find more people that would agree with you under the football forum.
• jaba134

  Isn't it required that you wrestle at least one match at that weight before sectionals to be allowed to wrestle there? In that case no wrestler is cutting to scratch weight for sectionals.
• WGBplayer

  Boy, It sure is nice to live in the country... Pretty sure it's only the city schools that have issues with kids making weight because it's too dangerous to run outside in the snow... Hate to turn an ankle on a sidewalk... HA HA. It's ALL ABOUT LIABILITY!
• Dad4Sports

  jaba134 wrote: Isn't it required that you wrestle at least one match at that weight before sectionals to be allowed to wrestle there? In that case no wrestler is cutting to scratch weight for sectionals.

  No, you can wrestle scratch at sectionals...any rules experts to verify that?
• I Wear Pants

  Cthelites wrote:

  TigerRaider wrote: I'm glad everyone's lives are so perfect that the only thing you have to complain about is OHSAA actually doing something right. Let the kids eat! If you want to change the image of the sport maybe the parents and coaches should stop pushing the kids to lose weight. Have them wrestle their natural weight. Lets build the bodies and make them stronger. They have the whole rest of their lives to diet. Bottom line it's a good thing, so let it go. IF a kid would have died trying to run in this crap would it have really been worth a couple pounds???? If you want some things to whine about come over to the dump I call a house! I'll give you as much as you can handle.

  You totally contradict yourself.
  If you want kids to eat and build the bodies and not cut, why reward the 2 lbs?
  Obviously if someone can't make the weight when missing one or two practices earlier in the week then perhaps they are CUTTING too much weight to begin with.
  Maybe next yr they will look closer at cutting so much weight.

  I'd argue that if you can miss two practices in a week and still make weight you're probably not cutting any weight.
  
  There aren't as many kids cutting weight poorly as we'd all like to think. I was one of them and it gave me a distinct disadvantage on the mat, in the classroom, and at home. I think that the kids are starting to realize (through watching the older wrestlers, coaches instruction, OHSAA mandates, crazy parent groups, etc) that cutting weight the unhealthy and frowned upon way almost always yields a net disadvantage, not the upper hand.
  
  At least this is my experience, I've really noticed weight cutting methods getting smarter in the last four years or so. Again, from my experience.
• giant 86

  my nephew last year wrestled 189 wieghd 174 ,my kids box my son wieghd 113 boxed at 119 i never would let them cut wieght.Both of them this year ,189 and 119.They wiegh 184,115,and are doing great things.Who cares about wieght ,I tell both,work hard in all you do and youll be alright,in life ,sports,LIFE.What we as parents,coaches and fans,should worry about is, They hear and see is what we as adults do .Work hard and everything will be alright.Good Luck TY.and ZA no matter happens we LOVE YOU!!!!!!oh forgot to tell you all my daughter wrestled,and Is boxing,and is rated #1 in the USA and Alycia has given up more than 20 pounds up at times because thats the way it ends up at times.GOD BLESS!!!! and she learned from both those boys.
• TigerRaider

  You totally contradict yourself.
  If you want kids to eat and build the bodies and not cut, why reward the 2 lbs?
  Obviously if someone can't make the weight when missing one or two practices earlier in the week then perhaps they are CUTTING too much weight to begin with.
  Maybe next yr they will look closer at cutting so much weight.
  [/quote]
  
  Reward the two pounds because our kids have missed almost 2 weeks not two practices! We missed 4 days + one tournament ( 5 matches) + Presidents day and our AD will not let us in the wrestling room if we are not in school. So it is one week that is spread over two weeks. Not two practice! I'm sure if it was only 2 practices OHSAA would not have given the 2 pounds.
• TigerRaider

  1_beast wrote: TigerRaider..Im sorry you son didnt make the varsity basketball team. Im sorry he decided to wrestle against your wishes. Im sorry he is not disciplined enough to mantain his weight. Im sorry that each post you sound more ridiculous than the State giving 2lbs. Im sorry you live in a dump. Im sorry that your son cannot shovel snow for a workout. Im sorry that your son cannot run in the snow. Im sorry other kids CAN run in the snow. Im sorry....

  Yes you are SORRY! And I'm just making a point. My son doesn't have a problem with his weight. I made him shovel the walk 12 times and I had him on our bowflex and treadmill. He did actually run outside a couple times also, which I thought was stupid! I was actually thinking of other kids, unlike the people like you, who only care about themselves and their kids. And I am sorry that your athletic career sucked so bad that you must live through your children. See you at districts, Oh sorry you probably won't make it!
• lowsingle174

  Let the kids wrestle and decide thier own fate. I'm sure that the extra weight will help some more than others, but that is how the cards are layed and played. Anyone serious about the sport has put in their time. No need to tell everyone what their team or wrestler has done to prepare.
  Good luck and good health to all this weekend!!!
  
  As far as the extra weight is concerned, do I agree with it? No. Will I live with it? Yes.