Ohio Chatter DEV

Bam175

I was just sitting here getting ready to watch the BTN, PSU vs MSU, and was thinking of Ohio's division structure on whether it would be better to go to just one division for individual sports like California and New Jersey or adding a 4th division.....both have there pros and cons.....Just thought it would be a great topic of discussion......Lets hear it !!

girevik

How many high schools have wrestling in Ohio? There should be that many divisions, that way everyone is a winner.

Bitterrunner-up

This is a no-brainer. One Division, 32-man bracket, top eight All Ohio. If you absolutely have to appease the "we shouldn't cut the amount of qualifers" crowd, you can make it a 64-man bracket. That way you'll have more state qualifiers then the present system. But you'll still crown one State Champion per weight.

Bam175

Bitterrunner-up wrote: This is a no-brainer. One Division, 32-man bracket, top eight All Ohio. If you absolutely have to appease the "we shouldn't cut the ammount of qualifers" crowd, you can make it a 64-man bracket. That way you'll have more state qualifiers then the present system. But you'll still crown one State Champion per weight.

This is kind of how I'm thinking also bitter.......seems to be alot more 4Xers now than in the past.......would make for some great match ups in the Schott. !!

buddy

If you want to build wrestling in the state, one division is not the way to go. Any good wrestlers will transfer to the better programs and destroy the struggling programs. We have high school nationals where there is only one champ per weight. Football has 6 divisions and it does not seem to matter to those schools that they qualified for state in division 5 or 6. They still made it to state and their communities were excited. Minnesota changed the way they do their divisions with great success. That might be one to look into, but with the strength of ohio wrestling why not give more kids a chance? Why not make it possible for a home grown team to place at state or win it like in other sports? I don't believe this has happened since 1992 in Ohio. There are more 4 timers i believe because of the knowledge of what weight everyone is going unlike the times pre internet and January certification>

WGBplayer

4 IS FOR SURE NOT THE WAY TO GO! While we're at it... get rid of the 7/8th place. In my opinion it was a big mistake implementing that.

bravesman

My suggestions for when we switch to duals for state:
2 divisions,
1 for private and open enrollment schools
1 for everybody else regardless of size

right now everybody is playing under different sets of rules. how can you compare a team with kids that only live in that community within the neighborhoods of 1 school with a team that has kids that live sometimes an 1 hours drive away??? in my community, if a kid wants to switch from 1 of our 3 high schools to another, they have to sit out 1 year. next community over, it is open between the 3 high schools...

then change names from "sectionals and districts" to "districts and regionals" so wrestling does not get screwed on the banners in the gym... righ now many other sports raise a banner that says district champions when it is the equivilant of winning the sectionals in wrestling. don't want to take anything away from them, just add to wrestling!!!

for the individual tourney:
same 1 closed school division, 1 open school division,
a 32 man bracket, then it is fair to place the top 8...
4 individual qualifiers from 8 regions:
-toledo and dayton (4)
-central (4)
-cincinnati (4)
-south and east (4)
-2 in cleveland (8)
-2 in akron/canton (8)

Bam175

bravesman wrote: My suggestions for when we switch to duals for state:
2 divisions,
1 for private and open enrollment schools
1 for everybody else regardless of size

right now everybody is playing under different sets of rules. how can you compare a team with kids that only live in that community within the neighborhoods of 1 school with a team that has kids that live sometimes an 1 hours drive away??? in my community, if a kid wants to switch from 1 of our 3 high schools to another, they have to sit out 1 year. next community over, it is open between the 3 high schools...

then change names from "sectionals and districts" to "districts and regionals" so wrestling does not get screwed on the banners in the gym... righ now many other sports raise a banner that says district champions when it is the equivilant of winning the sectionals in wrestling. don't want to take anything away from them, just add to wrestling!!!

for the individual tourney:
same 1 closed school division, 1 open school division,
a 32 man bracket, then it is fair to place the top 8...
4 individual qualifiers from 8 regions:
-toledo and dayton (4)
-central (4)
-cincinnati (4)
-south and east (4)
-2 in cleveland (8)
-2 in akron/canton (8)

Interesting...........where would you put say Graham in the divisions....... ??? ( this is the kind of discussion I was trying to get going )......

Bitterrunner-up

bravesman wrote: for the individual tourney:
same 1 closed school division, 1 open school division,
a 32 man bracket, then it is fair to place the top 8...
4 individual qualifiers from 8 regions:
-toledo and dayton (4)
-central (4)
-cincinnati (4)
-south and east (4)
-2 in cleveland (8)
-2 in akron/canton (8)

I like everything here except the two Divisions.

Bam175 wrote:
Interesting...........where would you put say Graham in the divisions....... ??? ( this is the kind of discussion I was trying to get going )......

I assume that in Bravesman's set-up, Graham would be in the Private/open enrollment Division.

1_beast

heres one contradiction....where does the schools fit in that have open enrollment...BUT have NO student athletes from outside the district. The school i support DOES have open enrollment, but our team is made up of 100% entirely 'local' kids who have came through the program and live IN the District

Bitterrunner-up

1_beast wrote: heres one contradiction....where does the schools fit in that have open enrollment...BUT have NO student athletes from outside the district. The school i support DOES have open enrollment, but our team is made up of 100% entirely 'local' kids who have came through the program and live IN the District

In Bravesman's system I think you'd still be in the Private/Open Enrollment Division because while you don't have them now, you could.

Con_Alma

As soon as you restrict a private school from competing in a tournament you will lose them as members fo the OHSAA. This will cost the OHSAA money. That's simply not going to happen.

They have the same ability to establish their own body to regulate their athletics.

Bam175

Con_Alma wrote: As you restrict a private school from competing in a tournament you will lose them as members fof the OHSAA. This will cost the OHSAA money. That's simply not going to happen.

They have the same ability to establish their own body to regulate their athletics.

Great Point..........

TigerRaider

Con_Alma wrote: As soon as you restrict a private school from competing in a tournament you will lose them as members fo the OHSAA. This will cost the OHSAA money. That's simply not going to happen.

They have the same ability to establish their own body to regulate their athletics.

How would putting them in the private division restrict them? Thats where they belong anyway! St. Eds vs Graham! I'd rather do this and get rid of OHSAA! I don't believe OHSAA cares whats best for the kids anymore anyway! Like you (almost) said OHSAA is all about the money!

Bam175

buddy wrote: If you want to build wrestling in the state, one division is not the way to go. Any good wrestlers will transfer to the better programs and destroy the struggling programs. We have high school nationals where there is only one champ per weight. Football has 6 divisions and it does not seem to matter to those schools that they qualified for state in division 5 or 6. They still made it to state and their communities were excited. Minnesota changed the way they do their divisions with great success. That might be one to look into, but with the strength of ohio wrestling why not give more kids a chance? Why not make it possible for a home grown team to place at state or win it like in other sports? I don't believe this has happened since 1992 in Ohio. There are more 4 timers i believe because of the knowledge of what weight everyone is going unlike the times pre internet and January certification>

I agree with you on the team sport aspects............not so sure on individual sports tho.....but I do see your arguement...... thats why I posted this is to see what everyones opion on this is.......Thanks !

MPhillips

What open enrollment schools have tuition?
What private schools are tuition free?
Seems there is a difference between open enrollment and Private?

Bam175

TigerRaider wrote:
Con_Alma wrote: As soon as you restrict a private school from competing in a tournament you will lose them as members fo the OHSAA. This will cost the OHSAA money. That's simply not going to happen.

They have the same ability to establish their own body to regulate their athletics.
How would putting them in the private division restrict them? Thats where they belong anyway! St. Eds vs Graham! I'd rather do this and get rid of OHSAA! I don't believe OHSAA cares whats best for the kids anymore anyway! Like you (almost) said OHSAA is all about the money!

Uhhh.....Graham is not a private school..........its a public one.....

hizzmuther

Interestlingly... all of Columbus City Schools take open enrollment students and were more than willing to take SWCS kids. Would you make the city leaguers participate in the same division as Graham? So. yeah... I get that Graham and Eds have some advantages, but how do you address that fairly.

I like the idea of one division, or of adding a fourth division, having a state tournament like we have it now, then taking the top four placers from each division meet at another "state" tournament. There may not be a perfect answer and what we've got is fairly functional.

PetersonMan

I kinda like the system as it is, i mean the good teams will go out of the division to wrestle other good teams, and really the divisions don't mean much, butit gives more chances for people to be state champs. Btw people will transfer anyway if they want easier competition, they could always go to Michigan (jk)

.

Bam175

PetersonMan wrote: I kinda like the system as it is, i mean the good teams will go out of the division to wrestle other good teams, and really the divisions don't mean much, butit gives more chances for people to be state champs. Btw people will transfer anyway if they want easier competition, they could always go to Michigan (jk) .

LOL................so true.....

MPhillips

hizzmuther wrote: Interestlingly... all of Columbus City Schools take open enrollment students and were more than willing to take SWCS kids. Would you make the city leaguers participate in the same division as Graham? So. yeah... I get that Graham and Eds have some advantages, but how do you address that fairly.

Thanks!

TigerRaider

Bam175 wrote:
TigerRaider wrote:
Con_Alma wrote: As soon as you restrict a private school from competing in a tournament you will lose them as members fo the OHSAA. This will cost the OHSAA money. That's simply not going to happen.

They have the same ability to establish their own body to regulate their athletics.
How would putting them in the private division restrict them? Thats where they belong anyway! St. Eds vs Graham! I'd rather do this and get rid of OHSAA! I don't believe OHSAA cares whats best for the kids anymore anyway! Like you (almost) said OHSAA is all about the money!
Uhhh.....Graham is not a private school..........its a public one.....

Uhhh..... Does Graham not have open enrollment?

Bam175

TigerRaider wrote:
Bam175 wrote:
TigerRaider wrote:
Con_Alma wrote: As soon as you restrict a private school from competing in a tournament you will lose them as members fo the OHSAA. This will cost the OHSAA money. That's simply not going to happen.

They have the same ability to establish their own body to regulate their athletics.
How would putting them in the private division restrict them? Thats where they belong anyway! St. Eds vs Graham! I'd rather do this and get rid of OHSAA! I don't believe OHSAA cares whats best for the kids anymore anyway! Like you (almost) said OHSAA is all about the money!
Uhhh.....Graham is not a private school..........its a public one.....
Uhhh..... Does Graham not have open enrollment?

Yes.....just like Columbus Public schools......and most city schools in the state ..............

Con_Alma

TigerRaider wrote:
Con_Alma wrote: As soon as you restrict a private school from competing in a tournament you will lose them as members fo the OHSAA. This will cost the OHSAA money. That's simply not going to happen.

They have the same ability to establish their own body to regulate their athletics.
How would putting them in the private division restrict them? Thats where they belong anyway! St. Eds vs Graham! I'd rather do this and get rid of OHSAA! I don't believe OHSAA cares whats best for the kids anymore anyway! Like you (almost) said OHSAA is all about the money!

It would restrict them from competing in a larger state tournament with the public schools. Are there not more public school students than private?? I don't know.

The member schools can get rid of the OHSAA any time they want.

I did imply that the OHSAA is about the money.

Bam175

Con_Alma wrote:
TigerRaider wrote:
Con_Alma wrote: As soon as you restrict a private school from competing in a tournament you will lose them as members fo the OHSAA. This will cost the OHSAA money. That's simply not going to happen.

They have the same ability to establish their own body to regulate their athletics.
How would putting them in the private division restrict them? Thats where they belong anyway! St. Eds vs Graham! I'd rather do this and get rid of OHSAA! I don't believe OHSAA cares whats best for the kids anymore anyway! Like you (almost) said OHSAA is all about the money!
It would restrict them from competing in a larger state tournament with the public schools. Are there not more public school students than private?? I don't know.

The member schools can get rid of the OHSAA any time they want.

I did imply that the OHSAA is about the money.

ALOT more public school students.....I'd say like atleast 100-1......but just a guess....am going to research that tho.....

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Should Ohio change its Division Structure ??