Should Ohio change its Division Structure ??

• TigerRaider

  Con_ They put the Private and Open Enrollment in the same div. If all this is true about all the schools with open enrollment that would be a huge division! So not seeing how that restricts them? I think we agree here. However I do believe Ohio schools can change their enrollment policies, but not sure of the requirements. Only because at one point last year Pick. Cent was open at one point then a month later they were supposedly closed.
• bravesman

  hizzmuther wrote: Interestlingly... all of Columbus City Schools take open enrollment students and were more than willing to take SWCS kids. Would you make the city leaguers participate in the same division as Graham? So. yeah... I get that Graham and Eds have some advantages, but how do you address that fairly.
  
  I like the idea of one division, or of adding a fourth division, having a state tournament like we have it now, then taking the top four placers from each division meet at another "state" tournament. There may not be a perfect answer and what we've got is fairly functional.

  yes, columbus public is open just like spg. that is why columbus public is able to build super teams in other sports like basketball and football. is it really fair that in those districtssports teams can draw from all over franklin county and westerville can pick from kids from all 3 schools when at a school like olentangy you take the kids in your neighborhood and do the best you can with them. yes, we have done very well with them, but is still feel like we are playing under 2 sets of rules...
  
  as for the ohsaa loosing money, i would have to see some concrete data on that. did the governing body in new jersey loose money with blair going to prep nationals instead of states??? maybe just as big of following of people who buy tickets at their tournament would come out to support their school... i don't know... maybe some schools would change their transfer and enrollment rules if a system like this were put in place before jumping the ohsaa ship which would in turn level the playing field...
• Bitterrunner-up

  I don't see how being an open enrollment school makes you "not public". I would think being open to students from all around your area would make you "more public". Also, it's not like they're using some loophole. They're using established rules. If you think the secret to Graham's success is simply their open enrollmet policy, they why hasn't any other school been able to do what they have done on a state an National level. The same is true about the top flight private schools. There's ONE elite private school and that is St. Edward. If it was just about being private, then Cleveland Benedictine would win the State wrestling tournament every year. IT's about a lot more than just being a private school.
  
  Open enrollment doesn't mean better athletics. Just like private schools don't mean great athletics. For every Graham there's a Columbus East. For every St. Edward there's a Grove City Christain.
  
  In an individual sport like wrestling, I just don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to face the best in the State at your State Tounry.
  
  
  BTW, is Wadsworth open enrollment?
• hizzmuther

  Open Enrollment for 2010-2011
  Open Enrollment packets for next school year will be available March 1, 2010 on the website and at our school buildings. Please click on Programs, Open Enrollment Information for details.
  
  ^^^ Very first thing on the top of the Wadsworth Schools website. So yes, I guess they do have open enrollment.
• bravesman

  Bitterrunner-up wrote: I don't see how being an open enrollment school makes you "not public". I would think being open to students from all around your area would make you "more public". Also, it's not like they're using some loophole. They're using established rules. If you think the secret to Graham's success is simply their open enrollmet policy, they why hasn't any other school been able to do what they have done on a state an National level. The same is true about the top flight private schools. There's ONE elite private school and that is St. Edward. If it was just about being private, then Cleveland Benedictine would win the State wrestling tournament every year. IT's about a lot more than just being a private school.
  
  Open enrollment doesn't mean better athletics. Just like private schools don't mean great athletics. For every Graham there's a Columbus East. For every St. Edward there's a Grove City Christain.
  
  In an individual sport like wrestling, I just don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to face the best in the State at your State Tounry.
  
  
  BTW, is Wadsworth open enrollment?

  It does not mean better athletics, it does mean playing under a different set of rules. It is like a race between 2 runners, 1 runner is running 300 meters, the other runner is running 400 meters, but they are in the same race. yes is does not guarantee that either runner is fast, and there are some out there that may be able to run 400meters faster than some can run 300meters, but wouldn't it make more sense to have everybody run the same distance, which ain't gonna happen, or have 2 events??? a 300 race and a 400 race???
  
  BTW, wadsworth is open and draws kids from everywhere. good programs draw good kids and become better. my proposal would either send those kids to their neighborhood school or put the all-star teams in their own division...
  
  lastly, i am not knocking the programs with open enrollment. when my son is old enough to go to high school, i will drive him wherever the best opportunity for him to succeed is. hopefully it is 2 miles down the road...
• Mat Shark

  why must we always change things in this sport?
  oldest sport known to man, and we always are looking to tinker with it
  part of the greatness comes from tradition
  no more change
• cruiser_96

  

  Mat Shark: Sometimes change IS for the better.
  
  ... I'll take "Follow Your Man" for $100, Alex.
• Bam175

  Mat Shark wrote: why must we always change things in this sport?
  oldest sport known to man, and we always are looking to tinker with it
  part of the greatness comes from tradition
  no more change

  In order to evolve.....to get better.......u have to change.......
• cruiser_96

  

  I'm not sure where the line is, but IMO some change for the sake of change. ...Or so it would seem.
  
  I'll take "Saying "Set" Before Blowing the Whistle" Alex!
• WGBplayer

  cruiser_96 wrote: I'm not sure where the line is, but IMO some change for the sake of change. ...Or so it would seem.
  
  I'll take "Saying "Set" Before Blowing the Whistle" Alex!

  HA! How about the rule that got us to where we are today?!?!
  
  "Top man sequence for $1000"
  
  With good officials this wasn't needed to begin with.
• Bam175

  WOW....this forum has went all over the place........thanks to all that has participated.....and please keep it going....who knows where we could be by tomorrow night !!...........
  
  Cruiser :... I'll take "Follow Your Man" for $100, Alex...................lol.......tells your age......lol
• bravesman

  Mat Shark wrote: why must we always change things in this sport?
  oldest sport known to man, and we always are looking to tinker with it
  part of the greatness comes from tradition
  no more change

  a source who's opinion i value greatly has informed me that matshark was quoted as saying the exact same thing when the singlet was first introduced. this supposedly occured when a motion was made to stop wrestling nothing more than a fig leaf and eventually a loin cloth and transition in to the singlets we dawn today. he is what is known as a wrestling purist or fundamentalist... i love him in those gieco comercials though...
• cruiser_96

  

  Wrestling... So easy, a caveman could do it!
  
  I'll take "Shoe Laces Must Be Taped" for $300, Alex. (Is this selection still on the board anymore???)
• 1_beast

  

  ....If i can change....
  ....and yoose can change.....
  WE ALLL CAN CHANGE.....
  
  Rocky Balboa after slaying the Russian Ivan Drago....
• ZombieScramble101

  if youre looking for the most entertainment, 1 division would be the way to go IMO, but, thats not what matters to come people
• Con_Alma

  TigerRaider wrote: Con_ They put the Private and Open Enrollment in the same div. If all this is true about all the schools with open enrollment that would be a huge division! So not seeing how that restricts them? I think we agree here. However I do believe Ohio schools can change their enrollment policies, but not sure of the requirements. Only because at one point last year Pick. Cent was open at one point then a month later they were supposedly closed.

  You're are right you are not seeing it. The are being kept from competing with other schools their own size in a bigger tournament.
  
  I am telling you that if you keep them from competing simply based on the fact that they are pay to be educated they will threaten to leave the OHSAA. By making such a threat the OHSAA will back down so as not to lose the money. There is absolutely no reason to stay in the OHSA and have them be regulated by this body if they can't compete against everyone. They can simply do the same thing on their own and keep the revenue.
• cruiser_96

  

  1_beast: My all-time Worst Movie Moment, right there. Hated it. Even as a 13 year-old kid in the movie theatre. I remember thinking I wish the movie would have ended when he won.
  
  As a fan of the sport: bitter's idea +1
  As a coach/participant: Keep it the way it is.
  
  I have no reasoning or justification for this, I just know that this is what I think. If there was a way to keep the 6 finalists involved a week or two after the season and have them wrestle it out, that be even better. Maybe go those six with 2 wild cards. Maybe even just the champs in a 3 man pool. but hey whatever, dude.
• cruiser_96

  

  Another thing... If people are going to change the divisional line-up, think about this: School A can have 430 boys and School B can have 1,430 boys. They are in the same division. If I've done my math correctly, that's 1,000 more boys. But if you have 35 boys and another school has 335 boys, that's 300 more boys. How do we justify saying that 300 is too many boys to be in the same division in one case, but 1,000 is NOT too many in the other case.
  
  I don't have the answer to that, other than 1 division. I suppose there is another answer but my goodness, you could end up like football and have 6 divisions.
  
  On the one hand too many divisions is a bad thing in my eyes. On the other, one division could be overkill. Reminds me of the time my in-law (who is really an outlaw) tried to kill that pesky housefly with the claymore he saved from 'Nam. Poor fly.
• Bam175

  Ok.........after reading over most of the post's again this morning.......(even Mat Shark's )......I think this is what we are saying:
  
  1. Change is good for our sport as long as it's not to drastic or to sudden.....ease into it
  2, Enrollment policies, as they are, are going to make it so that wrestlers can go to schools that they think is best for them.....
  3. No matter what we do with the division structure it is going to leave some schools and kids holding the short end of the stick.
  
  But let us remember this.......no matter where u go to school, what town or city your from, that our sport is an individual sport where you have to walk out on the mat by yourself and compete against someone that woke up this morning and put on his shorts on the same way you did......if you have the desire and fortitude to KNOW that you are on an even playing field, you can win ! We have all seen kids that come out of nowhere and do this every year.
• cruiser_96

  

  One more thing I thought of as I was driving to work... What may be the perfect solution for wrestling, may wreak havoc for volleyball, hockey, baseball, track or even gymnastics.
  
  Again...just sayin'.
• Con_Alma

  cruiser_96 wrote: ...just sayin'.
  

  
  What in the world does that mean??
  
  I agree that what's good for one sport doesn't necessarily equate to being good for another. However, the same challenge you mentioned regarding student population disparity in wrrestling divisions exists in football also. I don't know the answer either.
• cruiser_96

  

  Con_Alma wrote:
  ... I don't know the answer either.

  Does that mean you're just sayin'.?
  
  Another is, "I ain't hatin', I'm just statin'."
  
  
• Con_Alma

  ...not just saying. It's was more important than belittling it by using the word "just".
  
  "Ain't hatin'"...am trying to learn this fad lingo stuff!
• cruiser_96

  

  Yesterday, my 5-year-old and I decided to take a break from letters, words and books so we started playing New Super Mario on the Wii. After about a board or two I was feeling the groove, but eventually died. To which my 5-year-old says, "Oh! Salty!!!"
  
  I didn't realize I said it that much and my wife agreed. She didn't recall hearing me say it.
  
  All that to say, it's a crazy world of lingo out there. ...good luck.
• Con_Alma

  Oh! Salty!!!! Lol.