Archive

OCC Tournament

  • wraith51
    This topic has been discussed many many times but not a whole lot going on on the OC these days so I'm bringing up an old topic.

    For guys currently in the OCC coaching (or otherwise) what would have to be in place in order to be in favor of, or on a lesser scale consider, an OCC tournament?

    Some things I could think of that I would be in favor of, having coached in 2 different leagues with tournaments and other competition rules.

    1) No dual meet tie-ins- If I'm going to compete against these folks in a league tournament then I shouldn't have to compete in duals as well. I should have the choice to schedule my duals. The MBC used to make us have 3 league tri-meets that held no weight on the league standings what so ever, so add those duals to any other tournaments I may see these folks at and I would have seen them 5x's by the time league comes around let alone post season. MOAC allows us freedom to schedule our own duals so I can schedule a league opponent I may not see that often to have a head to head criteria.

    2) Rearrange the league for wrestling only (or small sports) divisions- Not very likely to happen, but in the way the OCC stands now or how it'll be in the future there will be several weights that will be full and others that'll have 2 guys. Not saying rearranging will prevent this, but it can make it less likely to happen. For example, with 32 teams, make 2 16 team wrestling divisions or 3 divisions of 10, 11, 11. Either rearrange geographically, by enrollment (OHSAA divisions), etc.

    3) Keep it to 1 day- This has been mentioned many of times, as much as fan base would like to have an all division OCC tournament, it's not likely to happen because it would require to burn 3pts and some of those teams who are not quite as deep as the others it would be a huge waste of 3pts.

    4) Timing- Have it the week before state dual finals (or earlier?), just not the week before sectionals, there were many leagues that happened to this year and there were a lot of rematches in important rounds. Someone wrestles a competitive match Saturday and then turns around and wrestles again the following Saturday in the go-to match. It's one thing to have that happen in the state series because that is all about the draw and how people perform but league stuff can be avoided. Another thing I saw is forfeits in the finals of league meets because of having to face that opponent the following week at sectionals, that takes away from the excitement of the league.

    There are other things that could change but ultimately what prevents this from happening is league duals, state duals (facing league opponents in the regionals), and seeing everyone again at sectionals and/or districts.
  • Dust_E_Roads
    I'll do this so Cruiser doesn't have to:

    http://media.wix.com/ugd/8f98a8_7223c58aa0d34d7badd33a98c0d658f9.pdf
  • Dust_E_Roads
    Wraith: I do like the idea that you are retaining duals, just giving teams flexibility in scheduling. Good duals are good. This could be a win-win in that it would allow teams to schedule duals against teams with whom they would be competitive and thus improving fan appeal
  • cruiser_96
    You da man, Dust_E!!!
  • wraith51
    The other thing is that you take coach vote out of all-occ selections. Or having guys go undefeated and not get recognized because they didn't get enough matches in one weight, tournament solves it all.
  • Dust_E_Roads
    wraith51;1728268 wrote:The other thing is that you take coach vote out of all-occ selections. Or having guys go undefeated and not get recognized because they didn't get enough matches in one weight, tournament solves it all.
    Tru dat!

    It would also levelize the field for "All OCC". Presumably the 1-4 finishers would be 1st, 2nd, 3rd term and HM.

    Currently a kid can be 1st team by virtue of being in an OCC division that happens to be soft at his particular weight class.
  • wraith51
    Dust_E_Roads;1728291 wrote:Tru dat!

    It would also levelize the field for "All OCC". Presumably the 1-4 finishers would be 1st, 2nd, 3rd term and HM.

    Currently a kid can be 1st team by virtue of being in an OCC division that happens to be soft at his particular weight class.
    I don't remember what year it was but it was after I graduated ('02) and before I started coaching ('06) but I remember seeing a kid get 1st team all-occ going 4-1 with 3 forfeits, a legit win against a flounder, and got hammered by the only good kid in the conference at his weight. The kid that beat the 1st teamer wrestled in 2 different weights, the teams that had forfeits he would bump to wrestle someone and the B kid would take a forfeit, and those that had opponents he'd stay at his weight and wrestle. So he went a legit 5-0 or whatever it was but because not enough matches at one weight he got no recognition.
  • Tony Mead
    Rhamani was 7-0 this year all forfeits in the OCC duals
  • Dust_E_Roads
    Tony Mead;1728338 wrote:Rhamani was 7-0 this year all forfeits in the OCC duals
    If true, that is truly a sad indictment of the OCC Central.
  • wraith51
    Not the OCC but in our 13 duals we had this year I would have to bump Carson Mills up to 132 many times just to get him a match. 3 of the 13 he did not wrestle (didn't make weight at state duals and the other was a tri 2 days after he wrestled the MIT so we gave him a break), of the other 10, 3 were actual matches at 126, the rest were forfeits or matches at 132.
  • Cadillak
    Tony Mead;1728338 wrote:Rhamani was 7-0 this year all forfeits in the OCC duals
    Leapley from CC wrestled him at least twice this year so I doubt that's true.
  • wraith51
    Dual Meet 01/15/2015 152 Dual Meet Leapley, Ethan - Central Crossing (11) Win F 2:16
    StateDualsD1 02/04/2015 152 Reg Final Leapley, Ethan - Central Crossing (11) Win F 3:54
    SectD1Marysville 02/28/2015 152 Champ Semi Leapley, Ethan - Central Crossing (11) Win F 3:50
    According to Jake's Wrestling these are the results from this past year Rhamani had against Leapley, I think the 1st result is from the OCC dual. But no other OCC dual results are listed except O. lib which is down as a forfeit.
  • Tony Mead
    after olib forfeited to him he came over said hi and told us he had all forfeits this year. I couldnt believe it and thought it was sad too. marysville bumped alot this year to fill holes, but if that result above is for sure Rhamani and not just listed as 152 then it may not be true. He was pretty bummed about it though.
  • knightflyer150
    It wasn't a league dual, but Rhamani beat the hell out of two of my kids this year.
  • bribacker51
    wraith51;1728401 wrote:
    Dual Meet 01/15/2015 152 Dual Meet Leapley, Ethan - Central Crossing (11) Win F 2:16
    StateDualsD1 02/04/2015 152 Reg Final Leapley, Ethan - Central Crossing (11) Win F 3:54
    SectD1Marysville 02/28/2015 152 Champ Semi Leapley, Ethan - Central Crossing (11) Win F 3:50
    According to Jake's Wrestling these are the results from this past year Rhamani had against Leapley, I think the 1st result is from the OCC dual. But no other OCC dual results are listed except O. lib which is down as a forfeit.
    That is wrong Leapley lost to him both times and Rhamani's mother even stated that Central Crossing was the only OCC team not to forfeit and give him a match any body that knows Ramirez knows he won't have his wrestlers duck the studs case in point Wimer wrestling both Furnas and Demas the same night
  • bribacker51
    Tony Mead;1728585 wrote:after olib forfeited to him he came over said hi and told us he had all forfeits this year. I couldnt believe it and thought it was sad too. marysville bumped alot this year to fill holes, but if that result above is for sure Rhamani and not just listed as 152 then it may not be true. He was pretty bummed about it though.
    Not sure why he said that but Ethan wrestled him in both duals and one of those was OCC
  • Tony Mead
    ok so he may have had one or possibly 2 of 7 lol point is, if we are gonna continue to avoid matches like these, might as well take away occ duals, make teams do state duals and add this tourney! I must come from a different time or something, I would never avoid or be afraid to step on that mat with anyone regardless of how good they were and or how inexperienced I was. I remember my first time wrestling a state champ, (wade gibson, from the d3 power house Cadiz) I had my A** handed to me, walked off the mat a better man!

    So Olib wins Occ division, I havent heard a single peep about since it happen, must not be that big of a deal I guess. Guarantee winning that 32 man occ Tourney be a big deal. Only problem I see with it is its Identical to sectional/district Id like to hear from the coaches that seem to hate this idea, coaches why do you not want this, its been talked about since the late 90's, why do we not have this in yet?
  • lion69
    You mentioned the one main problem with the OCC having the by far greatest number of wrestlers in division 1 it is wrestling the district all over again. Two, the league duals were proposed to help increase attendance and exposure for our sport.Yes you have some poor matchups and duals that are blow outs but you also have the marysville Liberty dual which was top notch. A big complaint of the all day tournament is that most people, except for parents, are not willing to sit for 6=7 hours to watch their kid wrestle 2 or 3 times. If you are determined to have a league tournament wrestle the teams in your league then have the champs meet for the overall OCC champion. Then you have All OCC in your league and an overall champ. Schedule the overall at a set time so people who would only want to see the best could come for 2 hours of top notch wrestling.
  • cruiser_96
    I'm not sure what other coaches think but I would love to see it happen. However, I realize MAKING it happen would be something entirely different.

    Location, finances, and table help just to name a few.

    In order to run a tournament of this magnitude it would need at least six to eight mats. That's roughly 18-24 people volunteering their time. Moreover, the fans would need somewhere to sit. Additionally, keeping updated brackets* and team scores would be a chore and most likely a two or three person job. As for the financial aspect, you can guarantee that if we are slapping "OCC" on the title, somehow, that orgnization will require funds (as they provide minimal help/support). Lastly, it would take buy-in from all schools from within the conference.

    Make no mistake - I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS HAPPEN! (I like the third week of the season. Here's why - it allows for the football players to return with adjustment time. It also allows for any mid or late season shifts to take place, which also changes the landscape of the weight classes, rendering the old "it's the same thing as district" a bit less true. It does not interfere with Christmas break tournaments. Finally, it would be AWESOME!)

    ***With today's technology, updating brackets can be done a bit easier than it used to be. (If I can make it happen for the next Cruiser Invitational, I plan to have a Chrome book at each table and have the table workers update the brackets on a Google Doc as the match ends. Once the weight class is complete, I will print it at the head table and post it on the wall. Easy peezy, lemon squeezy.)

    lion69 - I do not mind your idea. Some may complain about points, but again, I don't mind your offer.
  • wraith51
    As much as I'd love to see an all division OCC tournament, many factors like Cruiser pointed out with venue and workers. Then throw in the lack of matches like lion69 pointed out if say each division just has their own tournament, that's why I suggested instead of one giant meet do 2 or 3 separate divisions. It allows the chance for a few more matches and quality match-ups and it could be held at a high school venue on 3-4 mats. The MOAC wrestles a combined tournament, they only have 1 set of individual awards but the team and special recognition awards are separated by division.

    As also mentioned, timing. I like what Cruiser said in doing it much earlier in the season, earlier than I even suggested. This past season especially there seemed to be a lot of league meets right before sectionals which either made the league meets watered down because coaches sat out their kids or there were forfeits in the finals of sectionals because they just wrestled at league and would probably face off again at districts. The IVC in Canton area didn't crown a team champ because of the lack of individual entries (to their defense the meet was wrestled on Monday the week of sectionals and every single team was at the same sectional site).

    The OVAC which is eastern Ohio and West Virginia league, they wrestle early-mid-January and I did see several of their guys switch weights for post-season.

    But back to the point of combining divisions, not sure how to do it, just a suggestion based on personal experience coaching in a league with only 2 divisions but wrestling 1 tournament. They score it like a normal tournament but based on your finish in your division is how they crown division champs. Like overall champ was from the Blue so they are the Blue champs, runner-up was from the Red so they are the Red champs.

    Sorry, I'm kind of all over the place here, I'm typing as things come to mind, so hopefully this all makes a little sense.
  • Dust_E_Roads
    Tony Mead;1728611 wrote: So Olib wins Occ division, I havent heard a single peep about since it happen, must not be that big of a deal I guess.
    I bet the kids were not indifferent to winning a league title when it happened. And I trust it was at least mentioned at the banquet, so I don't believe your above statement is true. If not, I at least presume that the accomplishment will be reflected in the trophy case somewhere with a conference championship medallion or perhaps a banner in the wrestling mecca. Lots of sports and lots of titles in the OCC. Liberty is a talented school and wins a lot of them. I wouldn't expect them to be readily talking about it now 2 - 3 months later. That is sort of boorish. The fact that people aren't talking about it now doesn't mean it isn't a big deal. Anyone still talking about a football league title in the middle of wrestling/basketball season is a grade A [EMAIL="DB@g"]DB@g[/EMAIL] in my opinion. Likewise why would someone be readily talking about a wrestling title during baseball/track season?
  • Tony Mead
    Olib marysville the last two years were awesome duals! both years for the occ title! Both a couple of my all time favorite local duals! now I am no expert but didnt I see these guys wont be in the same OCC division after next year? Another example why we need this tourney to happen! They seem to be changing up every half a dozen years. Good duals can still happen without mandated OCC League duals just saying. I like cruisers idea earlier in the year pre holiday tourney warm up. Liberty can host it (o:
  • wraith51
    Tony Mead;1728824 wrote:Olib marysville the last two years were awesome duals! both years for the occ title! Both a couple of my all time favorite local duals! now I am no expert but didnt I see these guys wont be in the same OCC division after next year? Another example why we need this tourney to happen! They seem to be changing up every half a dozen years. Good duals can still happen without mandated OCC League duals just saying. I like cruisers idea earlier in the year pre holiday tourney warm up. Liberty can host it (o:
    '16-'17 is when the league restructures.
  • wraith51
    Per the ThisWeek News, here is the new divisional line-ups set for the '16-'17 school year:

    Central-Central Crossing, Dublin Coffman, Hilliard Davidson, Marysville, Upper Arlington, Westland

    East- Gahanna, Grove City, Lancaster, Pickerington Central, Pickerington North, Reynoldsburg

    North- Olentangy, Olentangy Liberty, Olentangy Orange, Westerville Central, Westerville North, Westerville South

    North Central- Delaware, Dublin Jerome, Dublin Scioto, Hilliard Bradley, Hilliard Darby, Mount Vernon**, Thomas Worthington, Worthington Kilbourne

    Northeast- Big Walnut, Canal Winchester, Franklin Heights, Groveport, New Albany, Newark

    **Mt. Vernon just joined the Ohio Cardinal Conference and is set to be a full member starting the same year ('16-'17) the Ohio Capital Conference restructures. That leaves North Central with 7 teams and the others with 6 each.
  • Tony Mead
    Just not gonna be the same............... All for the all occ tourney aye!