Officiating in Central Ohio

• 1_beast

  

  Is it interesting only to me that the Central Refs are the ones being complained about, yet Mr Refman is offering a central class, which in just 2 months you get 12 months of tenure added.....
• 80baby

  Here’s another one that gets to me when a kid is riding on the hips with no improvement. Some officials will let this go on for an entire period or more before they make a call and others are quick to make the call.
• Newbie

  Fab1b;686318 wrote:Love threads like this!! As an official of High School Wrestling, for 13 seasons now in Florida, I see this everywhere. You can go to the Florida Scout Board and read the same about us officials. First off those watching the match can't even agree to what they saw, see you all see it the way you want to see if first off! Are officials perfect, now way, however they aren't out there to screw any kid! Do we make mistakes, you bet!! However more often than not we are correct, you would be amazed as to the rules you do not know, and I see it in this thread. Someone keeps bringing up warnings and it was noted there are no warnings but for stalling or coach misconduct, that is it! The rest is straight to a penalty! Sounds like this call is correct, you stop the match when it can no longer go further, award 4 nearfall and any other penalties that occurred in order of 1, 1, 2, DQ. I have seen it and called it myself!

  
  That is exactly correct!! It may be a rare occurance for a kid to gain 8 or 10 points at once like this, but it sounds like this was a great call. Also, even if the hands were only on the chin instead of the eyes, you cannot push off of your opponents face to get off your back. Hands to the face in that situation is an illegal move and will cost 1 point.
• Bitterrunner-up

  The Central District officials did not disappoint today at the Darby District. They lived up to their reputation as the worst group of refs on Earth.
• Fatmanroll>Peterson

  

  examples?
• lowsingle174

  Too many to list, and thank you Bitter.... There was one ref there that just was not on his game at all, Unless his game is terrible, then he was on.
• point44

  Fab1b;687280 wrote:Which part? The only 5 second stalling rule is the foot trapped to the butt while broken down. If you are referring to say the top man has 5 seconds to bring the bottom man back to the mat after they stand up, that is no longer the rule and hasn't been for a long time in HS. By rule the top man must make an attempt to return the bottom man, if no attempt is made then it can be deemed stalling in the ref's judgment but there is no time associated with that. Also remember they don't have to be successful at the return to the mat, only make an attempt to avoid a stalling call by rule.
  
  Also if you are talking about HS rules, forget about college as there are alot of difference in college rules to HS rules.

  
  my son lost a match this season because of this rule. he was the top man, the bottom man got to his feet the ref counted 5 seconds and hit him with stalling. the ref restarted them, the bottom man worked his way to his feet the ref counted 5 seconds and hit my son with stalling for the second time giving the bottom man 1 point. my son was making every attempt to return the bottom guy to the mat but we were told regardless you have 5 seconds to return the bottom man. this happened in the 3rd period with the score tied 2 to 2, the penalty point made it 3 to 2.
• Bitterrunner-up

  point44;692910 wrote:my son lost a match this season because of this rule. he was the top man, the bottom man got to his feet the ref counted 5 seconds and hit him with stalling. the ref restarted them, the bottom man worked his way to his feet the ref counted 5 seconds and hit my son with stalling for the second time giving the bottom man 1 point. my son was making every attempt to return the bottom guy to the mat but we were told regardless you have 5 seconds to return the bottom man. this happened in the 3rd period with the score tied 2 to 2, the penalty point made it 3 to 2.

  
  AS painful as it is to admit, it sounds like the official made the right call. That one (returning your man to the mat within five seconds is pretty straight forward. Your kid should have just let him go.
• Cthelites

  lowsingle174;692865 wrote:Too many to list, and thank you Bitter.... There was one ref there that just was not on his game at all, Unless his game is terrible, then he was on.

  
  Woooooful!
• point44

  Bitterrunner-up;692933 wrote:AS painful as it is to admit, it sounds like the official made the right call. That one (returning your man to the mat within five seconds is pretty straight forward. Your kid should have just let him go.

  
  now im confused fab1b just said this wasnt the rule. he stated there is no time limit as long as the top man is making an attempt to return the bottom man. we were given exactley 5 seconds both times.
• snugglyhippo

  Awful, just awful. I saw 1000 one counts. Does anyone on the planet have the nutsack to give backpoints? Oh, my bad, they do in Cleveland. You know, the place that will destroy us next week. Bunch of clowns...cue Benny hill music, flowers that squirt, and 40 guys coming out of a mini cooper.
• point44

  Bitterrunner-up;692933 wrote:AS painful as it is to admit, it sounds like the official made the right call. That one (returning your man to the mat within five seconds is pretty straight forward. Your kid should have just let him go.

  
  if this rule is so straight forward then why was this the only time i ever seen it called? why are there officals on this site saying this hasnt been the rule in high school for a long time?
• lowsingle174

  snugglyhippo;692956 wrote:Awful, just awful. I saw 1000 one counts. Does anyone on the planet have the nutsack to give backpoints? Oh, my bad, they do in Cleveland. You know, the place that will destroy us next week. Bunch of clowns...cue Benny hill music, flowers that squirt, and 40 guys coming out of a mini cooper.

  
  I for one am with you snuggly. I usually NEVER rip on officiating, but geez man, grow a pair and make the right call.
• maddog140

  something needs to be done with who is chosen to officiate these tournaments!! Refs that we terrible at sectionals end up still reffing at Districts?? Really?? Only 3 officials belonged at Darby this weekend the rest need to retire!! One ref called stalling EVERY single time he was on the mat. Really every match had a kid stalling??? the other looked to the assistant ref every time the made a call. Really?? you don't have the stones to stand by your call??? Others were never in position to look for the pin or backs. One other point you have 2 refs per match right?? then why were so many kids going out of bounds and landing on the hard floor or into chairs and tables??Is it not the officials job to make sure they are safe???? Something needs to be done. I asked one official why are these guys here and he said you picked them. Really I don't remember ever voting on who officiates the district tourney!!! And we wonder why Central Ohio is Down?? Refs are on par with the kids we are sending for the most part. I've seen the Northeast refs and they are on average FAR better then what we got!!
• Bitterrunner-up

  point44;692960 wrote:if this rule is so straight forward then why was this the only time i ever seen it called? why are there officals on this site saying this hasnt been the rule in high school for a long time?

  I don't know why you've never seen it, I saw it a couple times today and several times this season. If you go to The Schott next week, I'm sure you'll see it once or twice, although most of the kids who make it there know better and just let the bottom man go if they can't return him. I can't remember the last season I didn't see that call made at least once. While the "five seconds" part of the rule may have been taken out, most refs in Ohio still use that as standard. And most coaches let their kids know that if you can't return him within five seconds, cut 'em loose because you're going to get hit with a stall call.
• point44

  Bitterrunner-up;693023 wrote:I don't know why you've never seen it, I saw it a couple times today and several times this season. If you go to The Schott next week, I'm sure you'll see it once or twice, although most of the kids who make it there know better and just let the bottom man go if they can't return him. I can't remember the last season I didn't see that call made at least once. While the "five seconds" part of the rule may have been taken out, most refs in Ohio still use that as standard. And most coaches let their kids know that if you can't return him within five seconds, cut 'em loose because you're going to get hit with a stall call.

  
  if 5 seconds isnt the rule then it shouldnt be used to justify the call. i hope most officals dont think like you, hell they can change the rule in the middle of a match if they want based on your standard.
• like_that

  

  Bitterrunner-up;692841 wrote:The Central District officials did not disappoint today at the Darby District. They lived up to their reputation as the worst group of refs on Earth.

  
  I agree. The Luft/Thoman semifinal was a poor last second take down call. It was as if the ref wanted to make the match more exciting by making the call at the end. There was no change in position from the last 10 seconds until the clock struck 0:00. Horrible call.
  
  Also, way too many refs awarding take down points wayyyyyy tooo early. Seems as if a lot of the refs don't understand the rules. We had a guy wrestling in the semis and his opponent used injury time twice. After the second injury time it should have been our guy's choice on whether he wanted top/neutral/bottom.
• double arm bars

  Saw the luft thoman semi front row. It was clearly a takedown the head ref was on the other side and couldn't see it completely. When time ran out the side official came in and made the correct call. Some bad calls by referees of course some bad choices by coaches of course all human error we can live with. Just wish they wouldn't call top man for stalling so much in central ohio it really weakens our mat skills and it will show next week.
• like_that

  

  double arm bars;693238 wrote:Saw the luft thoman semi front row. It was clearly a takedown the head ref was on the other side and couldn't see it completely. When time ran out the side official came in and made the correct call. Some bad calls by referees of course some bad choices by coaches of course all human error we can live with. Just wish they wouldn't call top man for stalling so much in central ohio it really weakens our mat skills and it will show next week.

  
  Whether it was a takedown or not, the main official in that match was in position to make the call for the last 10 seconds, and there was no change in position for those last 10 seconds. It was just god awful whichever way you look at it. I think the refs calling the top man for stalling is a statewide thing, not just central ohio. I see it all the time with the southwest district. In the past 9 years, I probably could count on all my fingers the amount of times the ref actually called stalling on the bottom man. Stalling in the neutral position is no better. You can count on the refs to call stalling in the last 30 seconds when wrestler A is winning. Something needs to be done. Here is my suggestion:
  
  -Have all officials watch a PA tournament at one point in the season and have them take notes on their refs.
  -Have all officials watch the NCAA tournament, and numerous other NCAA events
  -Don't allow any non ex wrestlers to become officials, also revoke the current officials of their license who were non wrestlers.
  -Come up with a much better grading system, and if a particular official doesn't pass the necessary grade, have him reapply for his license.
• Fab1b

  

  point44;692960 wrote:if this rule is so straight forward then why was this the only time i ever seen it called? why are there officals on this site saying this hasnt been the rule in high school for a long time?

  
  Because the 5 seconds was taken out many years ago. The rule is clear, top man must make an attempt to return opponent to the mat.
• lion69

  Like that. I remember the match you refer to in your post. Again it is sad when people complain without knowing the rules. In this match there was an illegal hold which led to recovery time. Recovery time is not injury time but is used to determine if the injured wrestler can continue. After that there was an injury timeout which was the first therefore no second timeout was given. I saw the official explain this to the coach when he asked your question. Ref got it right you didn't. Sorry if you were confused.
• point44

  Fab1b;693392 wrote:Because the 5 seconds was taken out many years ago. The rule is clear, top man must make an attempt to return opponent to the mat.

  
  fab1b i agree with you totally, but in our case we made attempts to return the bottom man to the mat, we were told you have 5 seconds regardless to get him back down. if we were told the call was being made because we werent attempting to return then i would agree. we were told the call was made because you only have 5 seconds to retrurn the bottom man and from what you say this is not the rule.
• like_that

  

  lion69;693430 wrote:Like that. I remember the match you refer to in your post. Again it is sad when people complain without knowing the rules. In this match there was an illegal hold which led to recovery time. Recovery time is not injury time but is used to determine if the injured wrestler can continue. After that there was an injury timeout which was the first therefore no second timeout was given. I saw the official explain this to the coach when he asked your question. Ref got it right you didn't. Sorry if you were confused.

  
  Are you sure we are referring to the same match? The first "injury time" the kid clearly was hurt out of bounds, then signaled for injury time. The second time there was injury time as well. Then an illegal hold was called (bottom guy through in a full nelson). I know the difference between recovery time for an illegal hold and injury time. I actually read the rule book unlike 95% of the officials out there. On top of that I was actually a wrestler unlike 60%ish of the officials out ther. Thanks.
• american guesser

  

  I stopped by Darby and I did not think officiating could be worse. Then I went to Columbus East and was proved wrong. I don't know how coaches can keep it together.
• 1_beast

  

  The officiating at Garfield Heights was pretty good!!!! Not a whole lot of bad calls....the good , by far outweighed the bad. I was happy with the crew at Garfield Heights and would be happy to have the same crew next year.
  
  Good Job Fella's