posted by justincredible
Legit think of this everytime someone mentions the bravery of the Ukrainian people.
"I come from Ukraine. You not say Ukraine is WEAK!...Ukraine is game to you? HOW ABOUT I TAKE THE BOARD AND SMASH!!!"
posted by majorsparkThe breakup of Yugoslavia is the only post WW2 event in Europe that would come close to the death and destruction that is going on today. A violent internal separation of a nation on many ethnic lines. Quite different than Ukraine.
The Hungarian uprising was put down quickly with little loss of life and property. The West was mostly hands off. Same with Czechoslovakia. Not the case in Ukraine.
Go read Putin's speech. He has made his intentions quite clear. This has caused a huge shift in the European mindset.
I don't totally disagree with you, just the quick reference to WWII. Everything doesn't always have to be the worst since WWII.
I agree that this has united Europe not seen since the fall of the Wall.
Even the breakup of Yugoslavia didn't cause this much unity.
posted by FletchOh so we should worry about what they "would do"? Right now they are invading a country and killing people. Not worried about that?
Sounds on par with people like you, lead from behind. All this BS about sanctions and crap. ALL OF THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE WEEKS AGO AND LIKELY PREVENT THIS.
But hey WTF, lets have a fucking war and people like us are paying $5 a gallon in gas and just lost 20% in the stock market. You need to STFU.,
Someone needs to understand how nuclear weapons, deterrence theory, and the escalation ladder work.
One cannot simply make a nuclear power do what you want it to....
I'm guessing your answer to the Cold War was just to blow the Reds all to hell.
posted by ptown_trojans_1Someone needs to understand how nuclear weapons, deterrence theory, and the escalation ladder work.
One cannot simply make a nuclear power do what you want it to....
I'm guessing your answer to the Cold War was just to blow the Reds all to hell.
Curious - if Trump were president in his second term do you think this invasion would be happening?
And yes, she did just say this.
Comforting, isn't it.
posted by QuakerOats
Curious - if Trump were president in his second term do you think this invasion would be happening?
Possibly not, but not for the reason the Trumpkins pretend.
posted by ptown_trojans_1I don't totally disagree with you, just the quick reference to WWII. Everything doesn't always have to be the worst since WWII.
I agree that this has united Europe not seen since the fall of the Wall.
Even the breakup of Yugoslavia didn't cause this much unity.
WWII is a benchmark in recent world history. It is going to be referenced. It is true everything doesn't have to be the worst since WWII. But in that measure something has to be. The current situation checks a lot of boxes.
posted by QuakerOats
Curious - if Trump were president in his second term do you think this invasion would be happening?
I do. I think this has been planned for awhile and would have gone on regardless of the election. Not that I feel great about Biden being in charge during this, but what would Trump have done differently? Gas pipeline cutoff would not have made a difference in my opinion.
I used to work with Russians in the mining and steel industries. Honest to God, it was the opinion of everyone I worked with that they fucked up everything they touched - “meanwhile in Russia” style. This operation harkens back to that - clumsy, horribly executed, terrible planning, awful communication. It makes me think what I thought then - thank God I wasn’t born in Russia. I can’t imagine the binge drinking going on as a result of this debacle.
posted by QuakerOats
Curious - if Trump were president in his second term do you think this invasion would be happening?
Does it matter?
Pretty easy to say oh Trump wouldn't have allowed that when his words the last week maybe suggest otherwise.
posted by majorsparkWWII is a benchmark in recent world history. It is going to be referenced. It is true everything doesn't have to be the worst since WWII. But in that measure something has to be. The current situation checks a lot of boxes.
Sort of correct. It is the end of the Cold War that is the benchmark here, especially when talking eastern Europe.
A lot of Putin's grievances are related to how he sees the greatest travesty of the 20th century, the collapse of the Soviet Union and failed efforts to save it in 1989-1991.
Trump is in love with Putin. They’re both pieces of shit. How someone could support either one blows my mind.
posted by ptown_trojans_1Does it matter?
Pretty easy to say oh Trump wouldn't have allowed that when his words the last week maybe suggest otherwise.
We are still importing a lot of oil from Russia. If Trump would have won, we wouldn't be dependent upon Russian oil to the extent that we are.
posted by ptown_trojans_1Sort of correct. It is the end of the Cold War that is the benchmark here, especially when talking eastern Europe.
A lot of Putin's grievances are related to how he sees the greatest travesty of the 20th century, the collapse of the Soviet Union and failed efforts to save it in 1989-1991.
I said a benchmark. Benches have many marks. Putin also noted grievances he has that pre date WWII.
How Putin sees the fall of the Soviet Union is very similar to Hitler and the surrender and humiliation of Germany in WWI.
The 80's called and wanted their foreign policy back and we hung up on them.
posted by ptown_trojans_1Does it matter?
Pretty easy to say oh Trump wouldn't have allowed that when his words the last week maybe suggest otherwise.
I was just asking a question; not surprised you dodged it.
Gotta love dudes still hanging on to the Russia hoax.
Good time to get out of oil anyway and move on to electric and solar power
posted by Dr Winston O'BoogieI do. I think this has been planned for awhile and would have gone on regardless of the election. Not that I feel great about Biden being in charge during this, but what would Trump have done differently? Gas pipeline cutoff would not have made a difference in my opinion.
Come on, I am no Trump fan but it’s a little “suspicious” that Putin invades Crimea under Obama, leaves Ukraine alone during the 4 years of Trump, then invades the whole country while Biden is President.
posted by geeblockGood time to get out of oil anyway and move on to electric and solar power
lol, tell me you don’t understand how huge amounts of power, and their efficiency works, without telling me
If you truly want off oil, the only way to make power in the quantities we need is nuclear. Wind/solar is not terrible for “backup/peak” usages but on a large scale they are useless
posted by jmogCome on, I am no Trump fan but it’s a little “suspicious” that Putin invades Crimea under Obama, leaves Ukraine alone during the 4 years of Trump, then invades the whole country while Biden is President.
The world doesn’t revolve around us - much as we like to think it does.
I don’t think Biden is up to the challenge of a Putin character. Biden, if he’s capable at all, will only do the politically expedient thing. In my opinion, Trump has zero understanding of world history, so I put no more faith in him.
Biden is long past his prime. Trump’s just happy Putin gave him an audience. Both worthless.
posted by Dr Winston O'BoogieThe world doesn’t revolve around us - much as we like to think it does.
I don’t think Biden is up to the challenge of a Putin character. Biden, if he’s capable at all, will only do the politically expedient thing. In my opinion, Trump has zero understanding of world history, so I put no more faith in him.
Biden is long past his prime. Trump’s just happy Putin gave him an audience. Both worthless.
You can say the world doesn’t revolve around the US but Putin knows the only power that could/would possibly stand in his way to take over Ukraine would be the US.
So of course it is relevant on who/what is running the foreign policy in the US when it comes to Russia invading Ukraine.
Do you think Russia would care what say Spain said about their invasion?
posted by jmogYou can say the world doesn’t revolve around the US but Putin knows the only power that could/would possibly stand in his way to take over Ukraine would be the US.
So of course it is relevant on who/what is running the foreign policy in the US when it comes to Russia invading Ukraine.
Do you think Russia would care what say Spain said about their invasion?
Let’s put it this way, I think Putin would have done what he’s done with Biden or Trump in the WH. Biden is not an inspiring leader. He’s a career politician who is way over the hill. Seeing him and Nancy up there makes me cringe.
Trump is no better. He hasn’t a grasp on world events or history.
The US weighs more than Spain. But the Russians are going to do their shit with or without us (recent US leadership) much as they have been for centuries. They are crooked fuckers and have always been. Ronald Reagan may have given them pause, but Biden and Trump sure as hell don’t.
I believe the difference is that Putin thinks both Trump and Biden are weak and stupid, but only the former is batshit crazy.
posted by kizer permanenteYeah man... who cares if it results in complete destructions of major cities setting the path for decades of war. You gotta be alpha and lead from the front!!!!
And they just did that today anyway.
posted by Al BundyWe are still importing a lot of oil from Russia. If Trump would have won, we wouldn't be dependent upon Russian oil to the extent that we are.
It is not even close to being dependent, but ok.
